Mirror in the fishtank

I have been having problems with a hyper-territorial green terror in my 75
gal tank, he killed a gymnogeophageous meridonalis, a jaguar guapote, two
plecostomus and a synuspillum, chewed up two severums and a red devil so
badly they had to be removed, beaten up with no tails.

Thing is, I like this green terror a lot. My girlfriend likes it even more,
mistakenly thinking it's a female, she named it Brigid for the Celtic
Goddess of war. So I want to keep it, therefore the obvious answer to trade
him in or flush him isn't an option, at least until everything else fails..
I want to exhaust every other option first.

So I've been trying various methods to curb his aggression. I put in
several silver dollars as dithers, he chased them for a while but when he
realised he couldn't catch them just gave up and now ignores them. I put in
a couple of mbuna (a cynotilapia afra and 2 demosoni) and he chases them
occasionally but still picks on the other weaker fish more (usually
targeting one at a time). I put in a pair of convicts hoping they would set
up a territory and be able to defend it from him, which could absorb alot of
aggression, but he's been able to prevent them from settling in anywhere and
persecutes the male mercilessly. I put a large Oscar in the tank hoping he
would be able to keep the peace (this has worked before), but even though it
was twice his size, the Green Terror quickly intimidated him and now the
Oscar is sulking on the bottom, refusing to eat.

Finally I tried an old trick and put a little mirror from my neighbors
cockatiel cage in the tank. This has finally seemed to work to some extent.
The Green Terror spends hours squaring off with the mirror, posturing in
front of it, wagging his tail, swiming around and a round it, and just
staring at it sullenly from behind a rock (the mbuna and the female convicts
also freak out on it). He finally saw a face he was scared of.

My question now is, will the mirror leach any metals or glue into the tank
which could hurt the fish? Can I leave it in there for a few hours a day or
not? It doesn't seem to work as well when taped to the outside of the tank
but I could do that as second tier alternative.

Any other ideas on reducing this guys aggression would be welcome too.

Jr

"Big Dummy" wrote in message
. net...

SNIP!

Any other ideas on reducing this guys aggression would be welcome too.
==========================
I'm trying to picture the stress, fear and suffering going on in this tank.
For the sake of compassion can't you at least remove the other fish to
another tank since they cannot escape on their own as they would in the
wild? Or remove the green terror to a tank of it's own? How can you watch
such suffering and torture of this fish's victims? :-(
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

"Koi-Lo"
"Big Dummy" wrote
SNIP!

Any other ideas on reducing this guys aggression would be welcome too.
==========================
I'm trying to picture the stress, fear and suffering going on in this
tank.
For the sake of compassion can't you at least remove the other fish to
another tank since they cannot escape on their own as they would in the
wild? Or remove the green terror to a tank of it's own? How can you
watch
such suffering and torture of this fish's victims? :-(

Give me a break! As opposed to the constant bliss and peace of nature I
suppose?

I gather from your nom-de plume you are more familiar with Koi and other
pond fish and perhaps aren't familiar with keeping fish such as cichlids,
but there is always at the least the potential of serious aggression going
on in Cichlid tanks (most Cichlid species anyway). Same with a lot of other
popular aquarium species: scat, puffers, clown knife, many catfish, etc.
etc. It's a fact of life.

I've been keeping cichlids for 20 years. In that time 95% of the time my
tanks have been peaceful, hardly "terrorized" any more than fish are
terrorized by being kept in a tank to begin with. With potentially
territorial species such as I'm dealing with now finding a good initial
balance is difficult, in this case I seem to have a particularly aggressive
specimen. Once you have the balance established there is usually no more
serious aggression unless something else changes it (like one of the fish
grows much faster than the others or a mated pair forms for example)

For that matter I've kept Green Terrors in Cichlid community tanks before
with no problems. One problem is the fish sold under this trade name
include at least two major regional subspecies or morphs and probably
several individual species. I'm guessing the one we have is an unusually
territorial example, or it could just be his individual personality.

Anyway, I'd appreciate helpful responses instead of hand-wringing or
sanctimony. For what it's worth, the fish that were killed were done in
when I was out of town, the injured have been removed, the rest are holding
their own currently and if they start to show signs of injury they will be
removed as well.



--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

"Koi-Lo"
"Big Dummy" wrote
SNIP!

Any other ideas on reducing this guys aggression would be welcome too.
==========================
I'm trying to picture the stress, fear and suffering going on in this
tank.
For the sake of compassion can't you at least remove the other fish to
another tank since they cannot escape on their own as they would in the
wild? Or remove the green terror to a tank of it's own? How can you
watch
such suffering and torture of this fish's victims? :-(

Give me a break! As opposed to the constant bliss and peace of nature I
suppose?

I gather from your nom-de plume you are more familiar with Koi and other
pond fish and perhaps aren't familiar with keeping fish such as cichlids,
but there is always at the least the potential of serious aggression going
on in Cichlid tanks (most Cichlid species anyway). Same with a lot of other
popular aquarium species: scat, puffers, clown knife, many catfish, etc.
etc. It's a fact of life.

I've been keeping cichlids for 20 years. In that time 95% of the time my
tanks have been peaceful, hardly "terrorized" any more than fish are
terrorized by being kept in a tank to begin with. With potentially
territorial species such as I'm dealing with now finding a good initial
balance is difficult, in this case I seem to have a particularly aggressive
specimen. Once you have the balance established there is usually no more
serious aggression unless something else changes it (like one of the fish
grows much faster than the others or a mated pair forms for example)

For that matter I've kept Green Terrors in Cichlid community tanks before
with no problems. One problem is the fish sold under this trade name
include at least two major regional subspecies or morphs and probably
several individual species. I'm guessing the one we have is an unusually
territorial example, or it could just be his individual personality.

Anyway, I'd appreciate helpful responses instead of hand-wringing or
sanctimony. For what it's worth, the fish that were killed were done in
when I was out of town, the injured have been removed, the rest are holding
their own currently and if they start to show signs of injury they will be
removed as well.



--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o





Well, I used to keep cichlids tanks too and I knew for sure to take
the fish out when they were in trouble. I'm not talking about chasing
around, I'm talking about when they intend to kill. I'm having the
Discus now, they are still part of cichlids family last time I
checked.

The problem is, in the wild, they can get away from the aggresive
fish. In the fish tank, they can not. They will be chased 24 hours a
day till death. That's the difference. The best way is to do some
research to see what can be the tankmates BEFORE just put them in for
a try. In that way, you can also know if the water is suitable for the
tankmates too. There are lots of web sites that will give you the
information about which fish are good tankmates for a give type. I'm
sure you can find them easily.

As for the mirror, I would not put it in the tank because most of the
mirror I know use some kind of heavy metals at the back. It may leach
out to your water. That's just IMO.

Have you tried stuffing their faces with earthworms then rearranging
their rocks/decorations? I've only keps big-ass cichlids for a few months last
year when I was keeping some here for a friend. Managanense, green terror and
some africans (not my choice to put them together). The T. buttekfori (sp?)
knocked the crap out of alll of them even thouhg they were tiny b comparison.

The managuanense was real pussycat.

If anybody knows of any large male jag cichlids near Troonto ontario please
drop a line to evans at vrx.net. he has three large females in a 150 gal tank
that keep spawning and cannot find a male.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

"Richard Sexton" wrote in message
...

The managuanense was real pussycat.

If anybody knows of any large male jag cichlids near Troonto ontario
please
drop a line to evans at vrx.net. he has three large females in a 150 gal
tank
that keep spawning and cannot find a male.

I actually have a large male in New Orleans but thats a bit far

DB

Would you put a wolf in the chicken house and hope he would reform and
ignore the chickens? I guess is no.

Same thing as fish. If he reguard something as food or competor, he
will go after it, no matter what you do. It takes millions of years to
form such things. You can not change it in few days/weeks/months.


I have been having problems with a hyper-territorial green terror in my 75
gal tank, he killed a gymnogeophageous meridonalis, a jaguar guapote, two
plecostomus and a synuspillum, chewed up two severums and a red devil so
badly they had to be removed, beaten up with no tails.

Thing is, I like this green terror a lot. My girlfriend likes it even more,
mistakenly thinking it's a female, she named it Brigid for the Celtic
Goddess of war. So I want to keep it, therefore the obvious answer to trade
him in or flush him isn't an option, at least until everything else fails..
I want to exhaust every other option first.

So I've been trying various methods to curb his aggression. I put in
several silver dollars as dithers, he chased them for a while but when he
realised he couldn't catch them just gave up and now ignores them. I put in
a couple of mbuna (a cynotilapia afra and 2 demosoni) and he chases them
occasionally but still picks on the other weaker fish more (usually
targeting one at a time). I put in a pair of convicts hoping they would set
up a territory and be able to defend it from him, which could absorb alot of
aggression, but he's been able to prevent them from settling in anywhere and
persecutes the male mercilessly. I put a large Oscar in the tank hoping he
would be able to keep the peace (this has worked before), but even though it
was twice his size, the Green Terror quickly intimidated him and now the
Oscar is sulking on the bottom, refusing to eat.

Finally I tried an old trick and put a little mirror from my neighbors
cockatiel cage in the tank. This has finally seemed to work to some extent.
The Green Terror spends hours squaring off with the mirror, posturing in
front of it, wagging his tail, swiming around and a round it, and just
staring at it sullenly from behind a rock (the mbuna and the female convicts
also freak out on it). He finally saw a face he was scared of.

My question now is, will the mirror leach any metals or glue into the tank
which could hurt the fish? Can I leave it in there for a few hours a day or
not? It doesn't seem to work as well when taped to the outside of the tank
but I could do that as second tier alternative.

Any other ideas on reducing this guys aggression would be welcome too.

Jr

"fish lover" wrote in message
Would you put a wolf in the chicken house and hope he would reform and
ignore the chickens? I guess is no.

Same thing as fish. If he reguard something as food or competor, he
will go after it, no matter what you do. It takes millions of years to
form such things. You can not change it in few days/weeks/months.


I have been having problems with a hyper-territorial green terror in my
75


No frankly to compare your analogy, it's a wolf in the wolf house, with a
couple of cape buffalo, a leopard and an elephant. Convicts, Red Devils,
Mbuna, even Oscars are all territorial. And yet while it might be news to
you it is possible to establish peaceful community tanks with any of those
species, given enough space and correct management.

DB

Consider yourself lucky, BD. I've had several green terrors and only one
had the expected attitude. The rest were/are wimps. Even the sparky
one's kids turned out to be luke-warm. A fish like that deserves to be
treasured in his own tank, perhaps with a mate.

"Peter Mason" wrote in message

Consider yourself lucky, BD. I've had several green terrors and only one
had the expected attitude. The rest were/are wimps. Even the sparky
one's kids turned out to be luke-warm. A fish like that deserves to be
treasured in his own tank, perhaps with a mate.


yeah there definately seem to be a variety of sub-species of these, because
the last two I had were moderately aggressive as well, this one is like the
meanest Red Devil I ever owned, like an Umbee or something, and he's just a
baby (I may have neglected to mention all of these fish are small juveniles,
the Green Terror is about 2")

But as you insinuate, the meanest of these varmints are often the most
interesting and fun conversely, with the most interesting intelligent and
interractive personalities. Thats why I just have to keep this sucker.

Right now he has kind of calmed down for the time being since I took the
oscar out (the puffer was taking bites out of it...) he may have plateued in
his aggression after a long session of fighting his reflection or he may
just be waiting to pick a new victim. The mirror is out for the time being
too.

DB