Importance of Water Column Flow - Calculate

Croosh Said;
The idea of closed loop is to have a closed system that doesn't involve
overflow. Most overflows are rated for certain flow rate and in most
cases you'd want more circulation that they are designed for.
Depending on the type of organisms you are keeping, fro 58G tank you
might want from flow rate from as low as 250 GPH to 1200GPH or even
more than that. If your overflow is rated at 600GPH, even 10x tank
turnover rate will max it out. (On the other hand, I have 1" ID
overflow handling about 800-900GPH from QuietOne 4000, so you might be
safe there...)


Im learning something here guys, im grasping the realization that the
overall column flow is system critical.

can somebody possibly help me figure out what my system flow is?

currently i have a temporary setup.

I have one Penguin 802 powerhead in the tank blowing water out near the
surface causing a fantastic amount of surface wave action, and another in a
5gal bucket sump. the siphon is a 1/2 tube, any bigger and the sump cant
keep up. in the sump is another Penguin 508 power head plubmed to a 1inch
fish tubing, then clamped to 3/4 inch pvc plumbing over the top, then
carried downabout another 5 inches through 3/4 pvc to the surface of the
water.(The 60 gal tank isnt currently being kept full, but about 3/4 full.
this is to avoid too much splashing onto the hood.).

the sSump pump is submerged under only a few inches of water.

The rise is about 3ft for the sump pump, but once over the tank lip, it
drops in about 5 inches.
what does that give you?

sorry, they are both Penguin 802, but im having a hard time finding any info
on their flwo rate.

I dont think they are marineland, but they may well be, but just an older
model. like 10 years old plus, these things are. and still like brand
new..


"wolf" " wrote in message
ink.net...
Croosh Said;
The idea of closed loop is to have a closed system that doesn't involve
overflow. Most overflows are rated for certain flow rate and in most
cases you'd want more circulation that they are designed for.
Depending on the type of organisms you are keeping, fro 58G tank you
might want from flow rate from as low as 250 GPH to 1200GPH or even
more than that. If your overflow is rated at 600GPH, even 10x tank
turnover rate will max it out. (On the other hand, I have 1" ID
overflow handling about 800-900GPH from QuietOne 4000, so you might be
safe there...)


Im learning something here guys, im grasping the realization that the
overall column flow is system critical.

can somebody possibly help me figure out what my system flow is?

currently i have a temporary setup.

I have one Penguin 802 powerhead in the tank blowing water out near the
surface causing a fantastic amount of surface wave action, and another in
a 5gal bucket sump. the siphon is a 1/2 tube, any bigger and the sump
cant keep up. in the sump is another Penguin 508 power head plubmed to a
1inch fish tubing, then clamped to 3/4 inch pvc plumbing over the top,
then carried downabout another 5 inches through 3/4 pvc to the surface of
the water.(The 60 gal tank isnt currently being kept full, but about 3/4
full. this is to avoid too much splashing onto the hood.).

the sSump pump is submerged under only a few inches of water.

The rise is about 3ft for the sump pump, but once over the tank lip, it
drops in about 5 inches.
what does that give you?

Wolf,

The 802 will move (at best) 400GPH. That means no matter what else you
have going on, the most you're ever going to move is 400GPH. It doesn't
matter what size overflow you have, what size pipe, how many bends, or
connections, or loops. The most you'll move is 400.

The important thing here is that the system is balanced - what goes to
the sump comes back - all in (roughly) equal amounts. This is all
controlled by the amount of water the pump can move from the sump up. As
water floods the tank it runs into the overflow box and back down into
the sump. If you're moving more water than your overflow can handle then
your tank will overflow and your sump will run dry. If you're pump isn't
moving enough water then your overflow will run dry and your sump will
fill (hopefully not overflow). You balance the two by adjusting the
height of the teeth on your overflow; mine has to be 1/2" submerged to
balance the system out.

Now, you need to ask yourself if 400 is enough for what you have in the
tank, as well as what you have in the sump. What I mean is, if you've
got alot of filtration going on in the sump you may want a slower water
movement so it spends more time moving through/over the filter material.
If you're using the sump to dose the tank and rely on LR/LS for your
filtration then you can step up the speed of water flow.

hth,

mark h

ok, so, since i have two, that must be near 800gph. since the penguins are
bad at raising water, ill bet im getting about 250 out of it, so 250+400 is
650GPH. Is that enough for a bunch of live rock, 2 fish, 2 turbo snails,
and 4 hermits? and no special inhabs? actually all my rock is special, i am
feeding it coral food to grow the brilliant hot pink tube worms and dusters
that abound, and coralline, other mysterious soft coral based creatures
etc.. no special added coral.

What kind of flow should i be expecting for this kind of life to abound, and
for a good CO2 transfer, etc..


"Mark Henry" wrote in message
m...
Wolf,

The 802 will move (at best) 400GPH. That means no matter what else you
have going on, the most you're ever going to move is 400GPH. It doesn't
matter what size overflow you have, what size pipe, how many bends, or
connections, or loops. The most you'll move is 400.

The important thing here is that the system is balanced - what goes to the
sump comes back - all in (roughly) equal amounts. This is all controlled
by the amount of water the pump can move from the sump up. As water floods
the tank it runs into the overflow box and back down into the sump. If
you're moving more water than your overflow can handle then your tank will
overflow and your sump will run dry. If you're pump isn't moving enough
water then your overflow will run dry and your sump will fill (hopefully
not overflow). You balance the two by adjusting the height of the teeth on
your overflow; mine has to be 1/2" submerged to balance the system out.

Now, you need to ask yourself if 400 is enough for what you have in the
tank, as well as what you have in the sump. What I mean is, if you've got
alot of filtration going on in the sump you may want a slower water
movement so it spends more time moving through/over the filter material.
If you're using the sump to dose the tank and rely on LR/LS for your
filtration then you can step up the speed of water flow.

hth,

mark h

10-20X's turnover rule of thumb for a reef tank.
However I think this is good for a fish Only tank as well.
The closer to 20 the better. Stirs up more of the waste...

How many gallons is your tank ?




"wolf" " wrote in message
ink.net...
ok, so, since i have two, that must be near 800gph. since the penguins
are bad at raising water, ill bet im getting about 250 out of it, so
250+400 is 650GPH. Is that enough for a bunch of live rock, 2 fish, 2
turbo snails, and 4 hermits? and no special inhabs? actually all my rock
is special, i am feeding it coral food to grow the brilliant hot pink tube
worms and dusters that abound, and coralline, other mysterious soft coral
based creatures etc.. no special added coral.

What kind of flow should i be expecting for this kind of life to abound,
and for a good CO2 transfer, etc..


"Mark Henry" wrote in message
m...
Wolf,

The 802 will move (at best) 400GPH. That means no matter what else you
have going on, the most you're ever going to move is 400GPH. It doesn't
matter what size overflow you have, what size pipe, how many bends, or
connections, or loops. The most you'll move is 400.

The important thing here is that the system is balanced - what goes to
the sump comes back - all in (roughly) equal amounts. This is all
controlled by the amount of water the pump can move from the sump up. As
water floods the tank it runs into the overflow box and back down into
the sump. If you're moving more water than your overflow can handle then
your tank will overflow and your sump will run dry. If you're pump isn't
moving enough water then your overflow will run dry and your sump will
fill (hopefully not overflow). You balance the two by adjusting the
height of the teeth on your overflow; mine has to be 1/2" submerged to
balance the system out.

Now, you need to ask yourself if 400 is enough for what you have in the
tank, as well as what you have in the sump. What I mean is, if you've got
alot of filtration going on in the sump you may want a slower water
movement so it spends more time moving through/over the filter material.
If you're using the sump to dose the tank and rely on LR/LS for your
filtration then you can step up the speed of water flow.

hth,

mark h