Internal Filter for Goldfish

What would some of you experts recommend for a completely
submersible/internal filter for a 20gal long GF tank?

Fluval Plus?

Marineland Duetto?

Tetra Whisper?

Sponge filter? Lustar Hydro?

None of the above? TIA.

Moments before spontaneously combusting Jolly Fisherman at
was heard opining:

What would some of you experts recommend for a completely
submersible/internal filter for a 20gal long GF tank?

Fluval Plus?

Marineland Duetto?

Tetra Whisper?

Sponge filter? Lustar Hydro?

None of the above? TIA.
=========================
None of the above. I use sponge filters for small fry but all the other
tanks have HOB Aquaclears. In-tank filters keep the "dirt" inside the tank
and take up valuable in-tank real estate.
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

no internals except for fry. Ingrid

Jolly Fisherman wrote:


What would some of you experts recommend for a completely
submersible/internal filter for a 20gal long GF tank?

Fluval Plus?

Marineland Duetto?

Tetra Whisper?

Sponge filter? Lustar Hydro?

None of the above? TIA.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?...s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.

On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 03:05:01 GMT, wrote:

no internals except for fry. Ingrid

I was afraid you guys would say that. I asked because conceptually it
seemed to me like running water through the aquaclear, etc. sponge
doesn't seem that different than the internal filters. I don't like
sponge filters. It seems like they could get gunked up and loose
efficiency without you really knowing. But I have seen some
recommendations for the Hydra for Goldfish elsewhere (even in use in
pictures from a competition) so I thought I'd ask.

Presently I have a GF tank that cannot accommodate any HOB or BIOwheel
system because of vertical clearance. So I'm temporarily running an
aquaclear on the front of the tank. It's unsightly. Frankly while it
works & the fishy is happy I'm not very impressed with the filter's
design concept. I'm not going to move the tank unless it seems it
NEEDS a biowheel or something.

Am I totally off the mark? Thanks again.

Moments before spontaneously combusting Jolly Fisherman at
was heard opining:
Presently I have a GF tank that cannot accommodate any HOB or BIOwheel
system because of vertical clearance. So I'm temporarily running an
aquaclear on the front of the tank. It's unsightly. Frankly while it
works & the fishy is happy I'm not very impressed with the filter's
design concept. I'm not going to move the tank unless it seems it
NEEDS a biowheel or something.

Am I totally off the mark? Thanks again.
==================================
You can always drain it way down and move it forward enough to get the
filter behind it. If you can't do that then how about a canister filter
under it or beside it?
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 23:43:24 -0600, "Koi-Lo"
wrote:

Moments before spontaneously combusting Jolly Fisherman at
was heard opining:
Presently I have a GF tank that cannot accommodate any HOB or BIOwheel
system because of vertical clearance. So I'm temporarily running an
aquaclear on the front of the tank. It's unsightly. Frankly while it
works & the fishy is happy I'm not very impressed with the filter's
design concept. I'm not going to move the tank unless it seems it
NEEDS a biowheel or something.

Am I totally off the mark? Thanks again.
==================================
You can always drain it way down and move it forward enough to get the
filter behind it.

Thanks for more help but I can't really. Even if I could squeeze it
in by rotating everything in strange angles I couldn't service it
without doing nearly 100% water changes. Not at all what I'm looking
for.

If you can't do that then how about a canister filter
under it or beside it?

If it was something around the size of a typical HOB or slightly
bigger that might work great. Is there such an animal?


But this is the part I don't understand. How is an external canister
or HOB sponge filter better for a small goldfish tank than an internal
power/canister filter?

Is it that the internal one's lack sufficient surface area for
adequate biological filtration? All of them are using equal
oxygenated water so I'm assuming surface area is the main limitation
of biological filtration here. But my adequate Aquaclear sponge &
ceramic thingies aren't very big.

I'm also assuming the recommendations here are based somewhat on the
current they generate. But even that is a little fuzzy in my mind.
For one thing, AFIK, external canisters tend to be _more_ powerful.


I don't mean to be a PITA here, but I also don't understand when you
say "In-tank filters keep the "dirt" inside the tank." Both a HOB &
internal filter use mainly a sponge or similar that is submerged in
continuously circulating tank water. So from the standpoint of water
quality it shouldn't matter that the sponge filter is located in an
external reservoir; it is one connected water system. If anything the
internal filters are less likely to release gunk into the tank when
servicing them because you are basically forced to totally remove them
before servicing.

I am somewhat of a newb, admittedly, but I do basically understand the
high bio-load needs of GF. I also understand the value of the wet/dry
biowheel type filters. I just don't get the difference between a
sponge or floss or similar in any of the other mentioned filters.
Help?

Moments before spontaneously combusting Jolly Fisherman at
was heard opining:

On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 23:43:24 -0600, "Koi-Lo"
wrote:
You can always drain it way down and move it forward enough to get
the filter behind it.
============
Thanks for more help but I can't really. Even if I could squeeze it
in by rotating everything in strange angles I couldn't service it
without doing nearly 100% water changes. Not at all what I'm looking
for.

If you can't do that then how about a canister filter
under it or beside it?

If it was something around the size of a typical HOB or slightly
bigger that might work great. Is there such an animal?

I'm not sure of the sizes they come in these days.

But this is the part I don't understand. How is an external canister
or HOB sponge filter better for a small goldfish tank than an internal
power/canister filter?

SMALL goldfish tank? What size is this tank? I hope you realize how large
healthy GF get. A common GF can reach almost 12" long. There's a rule of
10g per GF but that doesn't really apply to adults as even a 10g is too
small for an adult GF. It would be like keeping a person in a closet.

Is it that the internal one's lack sufficient surface area for
adequate biological filtration? All of them are using equal
oxygenated water so I'm assuming surface area is the main limitation
of biological filtration here. But my adequate Aquaclear sponge &
ceramic thingies aren't very big.

And how many GF do you have in this small tank? The more fish in the tank
the better the filtration and the more partial water changes you will need
to perform.

I'm also assuming the recommendations here are based somewhat on the
current they generate. But even that is a little fuzzy in my mind.
For one thing, AFIK, external canisters tend to be _more_ powerful.

I don't mean to be a PITA here, but I also don't understand when you
say "In-tank filters keep the "dirt" inside the tank." Both a HOB &
internal filter use mainly a sponge or similar that is submerged in
continuously circulating tank water. So from the standpoint of water
quality it shouldn't matter that the sponge filter is located in an
external reservoir; it is one connected water system. If anything the
internal filters are less likely to release gunk into the tank when
servicing them because you are basically forced to totally remove them
before servicing.

I understand and once used inside air-driven box filters. The water was
always CLEANER, with less particulate matter once I started using the HOB
filters and the Fluval. Also, if the power goes off the HOB can be cleaned
before it fouls the tank, you can't say that for an internal filter or
internal sponge filter. I like crystal clear water so much I'm on my second
Vortex diatomaceous earth filter. These are run after a partial water
change when the water *LOOKS* clean.... but just look at the color of that
powder after 30 minutes. ;-)

I am somewhat of a newb, admittedly, but I do basically understand the
high bio-load needs of GF.

GF truly need the best filtration money can buy.

I also understand the value of the wet/dry
biowheel type filters. I just don't get the difference between a
sponge or floss or similar in any of the other mentioned filters.

Why not try the internal filters then and see how they work for you?

Help?
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

"Jolly Fisherman" wrote in message
news

What would some of you experts recommend for a completely
submersible/internal filter for a 20gal long GF tank?

Fluval Plus?

Marineland Duetto?

Tetra Whisper?

Sponge filter? Lustar Hydro?

None of the above? TIA.


The best buy I ever made was a external canister filter, I have a Fluval
204. This was my first canister filter after using internals for years.
The differences it made was amazing, water was cleaner and the fish seemed a
lot more happy. I think the cleaner water was simply the increased
bio-filtering which goes on (compared to internal filters).

It looks like an overkill to most people who visit, having a canister filter
for a handful of goldfish, but I couldn't recommend it enough. Installing
was simple, just 2 tubes into the tank, leading down to filter which sits in
a cabinet out of slight.

Graeme

Jolly Fisherman wrote:
What would some of you experts recommend for a completely
submersible/internal filter for a 20gal long GF tank?

Fluval Plus?

Marineland Duetto?

Tetra Whisper?

Sponge filter? Lustar Hydro?

None of the above? TIA.

My LFS use large internal air-driven sponge filters on their
fish-for-sale aquariums. I think they should work quite well on goldfish
aquaria if properly sized, and you could easily use two in an aquarium.
The obvious drawback is that they take up room in the aquarium, and I
mostly use Aquaclear-style external filters and true canister filters.

On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:26:15 -0500, netDenizen wrote:

My LFS use large internal air-driven sponge filters on their
fish-for-sale aquariums. I think they should work quite well on goldfish
aquaria if properly sized, and you could easily use two in an aquarium.
The obvious drawback is that they take up room in the aquarium, and I
mostly use Aquaclear-style external filters and true canister filters.

There's a chain by me that does that also. Typically they use 2 box
filters per tank. Their absurdly overstocked GF always seem to be
suffering for water-quality health issues. Whenever they get some
bigger ones they seem to quickly develop nasty sores and diseases. Of
course their are multiple reasons for this, but my perception is
tainted. Plus I can't stand the gurgling bubble noise they tend to
make.

I'm starting to think if an internal canister/power filter doesn't
work I should either give up or buy a large tank for a different
location with a nice canister & biowheel.