gravel cleaning or changing

hi

my tank has been set up for 5 months now and although i do a water
change every 7 to 14 days, by using a thing to suck up the dirt around
the gravel. i am beginning the think the gravel could do with better
cleaning. what is the procedure for cleaning gravel, how often should
it be done? what am i doing wrong by having such filthy gravel after 5
months - is this normal?

many thanks

f

On 11 Oct 2006 02:04:47 -0700, "froggo"
wrote:

hi

my tank has been set up for 5 months now and although i do a water
change every 7 to 14 days, by using a thing to suck up the dirt around
the gravel. i am beginning the think the gravel could do with better
cleaning. what is the procedure for cleaning gravel, how often should
it be done? what am i doing wrong by having such filthy gravel after 5
months - is this normal?

many thanks

f
I have 5 tanks ranging in size from 75, 29 and 10 gallons. The 75 has
been up 4 years, the others 3 to 3 1/2.

I never clean the gravel.

I do change 20% of the water twice weekly, but the syphon hangs mid
tank.

dick

Hi

thanks for that, maybe its because i hold the syphon right at the
bottom, i will try it mid tank.and i shouldnt be afraid to do changes
more often then? i am just concerned that my tap water is very high in
nitrate . i do add the chemicals to bring it down but they dont seem to
be too effective.

t
f


Dick wrote:
On 11 Oct 2006 02:04:47 -0700, "froggo"
wrote:

hi

my tank has been set up for 5 months now and although i do a water
change every 7 to 14 days, by using a thing to suck up the dirt around
the gravel. i am beginning the think the gravel could do with better
cleaning. what is the procedure for cleaning gravel, how often should
it be done? what am i doing wrong by having such filthy gravel after 5
months - is this normal?

many thanks

f
I have 5 tanks ranging in size from 75, 29 and 10 gallons. The 75 has
been up 4 years, the others 3 to 3 1/2.

I never clean the gravel.

I do change 20% of the water twice weekly, but the syphon hangs mid
tank.

dick

On 11 Oct 2006 06:05:49 -0700, "froggo"
wrote:

Hi

thanks for that, maybe its because i hold the syphon right at the
bottom, i will try it mid tank.and i shouldnt be afraid to do changes
more often then? i am just concerned that my tap water is very high in
nitrate . i do add the chemicals to bring it down but they dont seem to
be too effective.

t
f


Dick wrote:
On 11 Oct 2006 02:04:47 -0700, "froggo"
wrote:

hi

my tank has been set up for 5 months now and although i do a water
change every 7 to 14 days, by using a thing to suck up the dirt around
the gravel. i am beginning the think the gravel could do with better
cleaning. what is the procedure for cleaning gravel, how often should
it be done? what am i doing wrong by having such filthy gravel after 5
months - is this normal?

many thanks

f
I have 5 tanks ranging in size from 75, 29 and 10 gallons. The 75 has
been up 4 years, the others 3 to 3 1/2.

I never clean the gravel.

I do change 20% of the water twice weekly, but the syphon hangs mid
tank.

dick

I add no chemicals. My local water pH is high, 7.8, but has not been
a problem.

Measure the nitrates of your tap water if you have doubts. Make all of
the tests on the tap water.

I am not reliable with chemicals and killed a number of fish while
lowering the pH, the tank went acid. It was terrible. That decided
me to try not adjusting. It has worked well for me.

I would not worry about where the syphon is located. A good argument
can be made for keeping the syphon low as denser water loaded with
"solids" will sink. I find it hard to get near the gravel due to
plants in the way.

dick

Hi, I have never thought to test the tap water, just the aquarium
water. what a good idea!
thanks


Dick wrote:
On 11 Oct 2006 06:05:49 -0700, "froggo"
wrote:

Hi

thanks for that, maybe its because i hold the syphon right at the
bottom, i will try it mid tank.and i shouldnt be afraid to do changes
more often then? i am just concerned that my tap water is very high in
nitrate . i do add the chemicals to bring it down but they dont seem to
be too effective.

t
f


Dick wrote:
On 11 Oct 2006 02:04:47 -0700, "froggo"
wrote:

hi

my tank has been set up for 5 months now and although i do a water
change every 7 to 14 days, by using a thing to suck up the dirt around
the gravel. i am beginning the think the gravel could do with better
cleaning. what is the procedure for cleaning gravel, how often should
it be done? what am i doing wrong by having such filthy gravel after 5
months - is this normal?

many thanks

f
I have 5 tanks ranging in size from 75, 29 and 10 gallons. The 75 has
been up 4 years, the others 3 to 3 1/2.

I never clean the gravel.

I do change 20% of the water twice weekly, but the syphon hangs mid
tank.

dick

I add no chemicals. My local water pH is high, 7.8, but has not been
a problem.

Measure the nitrates of your tap water if you have doubts. Make all of
the tests on the tap water.

I am not reliable with chemicals and killed a number of fish while
lowering the pH, the tank went acid. It was terrible. That decided
me to try not adjusting. It has worked well for me.

I would not worry about where the syphon is located. A good argument
can be made for keeping the syphon low as denser water loaded with
"solids" will sink. I find it hard to get near the gravel due to
plants in the way.

dick

Dick wrote:
On 11 Oct 2006 02:04:47 -0700, "froggo"
wrote:

hi

my tank has been set up for 5 months now and although i do a water
change every 7 to 14 days, by using a thing to suck up the dirt around
the gravel. i am beginning the think the gravel could do with better
cleaning. what is the procedure for cleaning gravel, how often should
it be done? what am i doing wrong by having such filthy gravel after 5
months - is this normal?

many thanks

f
I have 5 tanks ranging in size from 75, 29 and 10 gallons. The 75 has
been up 4 years, the others 3 to 3 1/2.

I never clean the gravel.

I do change 20% of the water twice weekly, but the syphon hangs mid
tank.

dick

Dick,
Please remember that you need to add the part of having lots of plants
in the tank.
The plants are keeping that gravel clean for you.
Without them, you would need to be doing a gravel vacuum.
Somebody new to the hobby may think by your post that you never need to
it.
Of course this depends on several factors, such as over feeding, over
crowding, no or only a few live plants, etc.

On 14 Oct 2006 10:31:05 -0700, "Tynk" wrote:


Dick wrote:
On 11 Oct 2006 02:04:47 -0700, "froggo"
wrote:

hi

my tank has been set up for 5 months now and although i do a water
change every 7 to 14 days, by using a thing to suck up the dirt around
the gravel. i am beginning the think the gravel could do with better
cleaning. what is the procedure for cleaning gravel, how often should
it be done? what am i doing wrong by having such filthy gravel after 5
months - is this normal?

many thanks

f
I have 5 tanks ranging in size from 75, 29 and 10 gallons. The 75 has
been up 4 years, the others 3 to 3 1/2.

I never clean the gravel.

I do change 20% of the water twice weekly, but the syphon hangs mid
tank.

dick

Dick,
Please remember that you need to add the part of having lots of plants
in the tank.
The plants are keeping that gravel clean for you.
Without them, you would need to be doing a gravel vacuum.
Somebody new to the hobby may think by your post that you never need to
it.
Of course this depends on several factors, such as over feeding, over
crowding, no or only a few live plants, etc.

I do have heavy plant growth in my tanks.

The poster gave no details, but said he was not vacuuming the gravel.
He said nothing about plants. I have no experience with tanks without
gravel. You may be right. However, I don't do several things others
say are vital. I am not aware of plants cleaning the gravel. I have
one 10 gallon that I anchor the plants with lead. It has a thin layer
of sand just for looks. It used to be my quarantine tank. It has
been up over 3 years. So, even that limited experience would not say
cleaning the gravel has worth.

Actually, I wonder why you believe the gravel needs cleaning? The
poster says nothing about any problems. His concern seems to be from
reading comments like yours. He may well have plants.

I accept your caution, but only as a caution, not proof of your
belief.

I think there are too many rules, too many chemicals, too many gadgets
which I have found adding complexity where it is not needed. Having
said that, I do understand that people wanting more exotic tanks have
a large world of chemicals, foods, gadgets to enhance their tanks.

Dick wrote in
:

Actually, I wonder why you believe the gravel needs cleaning? The
poster says nothing about any problems. His concern seems to be from
reading comments like yours. He may well have plants.

I accept your caution, but only as a caution, not proof of your
belief.


Belief? No. I have an unplanted tank, and my local water is normally soft
and acidic (low bufering capacity). When I vacuum the gravel during water
changes, I see a marked control in the rate at which total nitrates
develop, since I'm removing more decaying matter than I would by just
decanting off the supernatant water.
Without gravel vacuuming, fish waste continues to decay in the gravel
substrate, and nitrate levels rise more rapidly, requiring larger water
changes to keep nitrates 20 ppm. Its not belief... its math. But it is
also setup-specific, hence Tynk's wisely added caution. People don't
vacuum gravel on mere superstition, although Iunderstand how you might
think that about a lot of fishkeeping practices.

DaveZ
Atom Weaver

froggo wrote:
hi

my tank has been set up for 5 months now and although i do a water
change every 7 to 14 days, by using a thing to suck up the dirt around
the gravel. i am beginning the think the gravel could do with better
cleaning. what is the procedure for cleaning gravel, how often should
it be done? what am i doing wrong by having such filthy gravel after 5
months - is this normal?

If you don't have plants to absorb excess nitrates and your tap water is
high in nitrates, then an accumulating mass of dead organic matter
within your gravel can only contribute to an even higher nitrate level.
If your gravel is composed of large grains, then that can trap and
accumulate dirt. A gravel cleaner cleans gravel by having the end pushed
into the substrate by a certain amount to force a flow of water deep
into the gravel, literally washing it and siphoning the dirt away.
Usually, gravel is too heavy to be sucked up at the same time, unless
you've got sand. Even then, with fine control of the flow, just the dirt
can be excised leaving the sand behind. Seven to 14 days sounds fine to
me. Personally, I don't gravel clean. My plants take care of the excess
nitrates. And all my aquariums use sand substrate which isn't prone to
trap dirt as easily as gravel. Instead, the dirt accumulates in the filter.

Nikki

H,

I dont think i have enough plants., i only have one - its only a 50
litre tank but still, perhaps i could do with some more and it could
help.

i might well consider sand in the future.
thanks for yr help.
f


Nikki Casali wrote:
froggo wrote:
hi

my tank has been set up for 5 months now and although i do a water
change every 7 to 14 days, by using a thing to suck up the dirt around
the gravel. i am beginning the think the gravel could do with better
cleaning. what is the procedure for cleaning gravel, how often should
it be done? what am i doing wrong by having such filthy gravel after 5
months - is this normal?

If you don't have plants to absorb excess nitrates and your tap water is
high in nitrates, then an accumulating mass of dead organic matter
within your gravel can only contribute to an even higher nitrate level.
If your gravel is composed of large grains, then that can trap and
accumulate dirt. A gravel cleaner cleans gravel by having the end pushed
into the substrate by a certain amount to force a flow of water deep
into the gravel, literally washing it and siphoning the dirt away.
Usually, gravel is too heavy to be sucked up at the same time, unless
you've got sand. Even then, with fine control of the flow, just the dirt
can be excised leaving the sand behind. Seven to 14 days sounds fine to
me. Personally, I don't gravel clean. My plants take care of the excess
nitrates. And all my aquariums use sand substrate which isn't prone to
trap dirt as easily as gravel. Instead, the dirt accumulates in the filter.

Nikki