I may owe WalMart, PetSmart apology--

:-)

I have long railed against Wal Mart and Petsmart for selling Pacu and
claiming an adult size of only 10 or 11 inches -- common knowledge is
that Pacus grow into huge fish. My issue was that they were selling
these wonderful fish to people with "small" hundred gallon setups,
another example of cruelty to fish. I think that sales are important
enough to them that they are unconcerned with the safety of the
animals they sell -- they sell Oscars to people with ten gallon
"aquariums" without a bit of conscience.

However, I recently visited Fishbase and discovered that there are 10
or 15 species in the Amazon basin that bear the name "Pacu", and a
goodly portion of them only grow to between 9 and 14 inches. They're
like Gouramis, I guess, with a couple of giant versions and some
small.

I'm still not happy with a lot of Walmart and Petsmart's aquaria
practices, but I may owe them an apology for the Pacu thing.

I'm crossposting into RAFC because: 1.) We've discussed this in a
couple of threads, and 2.) All Pacus *want* to be Cichlids.

Fishbase is (I think I remember) www dot fishbase dot com. Might be
Org --

--Mark



Mark Stone tractorlegs at msn dot kom
OSCAR Lovers! http://www.geocities.com/cichlidiot_2000/oscar.html
The ".Edu" meens i are smart.

"Mark Stone" wrote in message
m...
:-)

I have long railed against Wal Mart and Petsmart for selling Pacu and
claiming an adult size of only 10 or 11 inches -- common knowledge is
that Pacus grow into huge fish. My issue was that they were selling
these wonderful fish to people with "small" hundred gallon setups,
another example of cruelty to fish. I think that sales are important
enough to them that they are unconcerned with the safety of the
animals they sell -- they sell Oscars to people with ten gallon
"aquariums" without a bit of conscience.

However, I recently visited Fishbase and discovered that there are 10
or 15 species in the Amazon basin that bear the name "Pacu", and a
goodly portion of them only grow to between 9 and 14 inches. They're
like Gouramis, I guess, with a couple of giant versions and some
small.

I'm still not happy with a lot of Walmart and Petsmart's aquaria
practices, but I may owe them an apology for the Pacu thing.

I'm crossposting into RAFC because: 1.) We've discussed this in a
couple of threads, and 2.) All Pacus *want* to be Cichlids.

Fishbase is (I think I remember) www dot fishbase dot com. Might be
Org --

--Mark

To be devil's advocate, I buy commercial volumes of fish from multiple
suppliers including two major importers, and none of them offer any Pacu
variants, other than the 2 color morphs which both grow to obscene sizes.
I also don't see any commercial interest in supplying a small Pacu, as
that's called a Silver dollar (from a retail perspective). The is also a
further disinterest in supplying yet another silver fish, as there is
already a glut of them available. Commercially, almost any colour is
preferable to silver.

Would the vendors you mentioned have access to different farms which were
harvesting a fish to compete with the already established Silver dollar
contrary to the existing non-interest in more silver fish..... ya, sure,
whatever ;~)
--
www.NetMax.tk

"NetMax" wrote in message ...

To be devil's advocate, I buy commercial volumes of fish from multiple
suppliers including two major importers, and none of them offer any Pacu
variants, other than the 2 color morphs which both grow to obscene sizes.
I also don't see any commercial interest in supplying a small Pacu, as
that's called a Silver dollar (from a retail perspective). The is also a
further disinterest in supplying yet another silver fish, as there is
already a glut of them available. Commercially, almost any colour is
preferable to silver.

Would the vendors you mentioned have access to different farms which were
harvesting a fish to compete with the already established Silver dollar
contrary to the existing non-interest in more silver fish..... ya, sure,
whatever ;~)

Go take a look at their listings and tell me what you think
(www.fishbase.com). As far as "small Pacu", the 10 to 16 inch sizes
for some of these other variations are certainly small compared to the
biggie Pacus, but in context to Aquaria that is quite large.

--Mark

"Mark Stone" wrote in message
om...
"NetMax" wrote in message
...

To be devil's advocate, I buy commercial volumes of fish from
multiple
suppliers including two major importers, and none of them offer any
Pacu
variants, other than the 2 color morphs which both grow to obscene
sizes.
I also don't see any commercial interest in supplying a small Pacu,
as
that's called a Silver dollar (from a retail perspective). The is
also a
further disinterest in supplying yet another silver fish, as there is
already a glut of them available. Commercially, almost any colour is
preferable to silver.

Would the vendors you mentioned have access to different farms which
were
harvesting a fish to compete with the already established Silver
dollar
contrary to the existing non-interest in more silver fish..... ya,
sure,
whatever ;~)

Go take a look at their listings and tell me what you think
(www.fishbase.com). As far as "small Pacu", the 10 to 16 inch sizes
for some of these other variations are certainly small compared to the
biggie Pacus, but in context to Aquaria that is quite large.

--Mark


One of my transhippers got back to me today. He has been told that the
fish he sells is Metynnis maculatus, and if this is true, then fishbase
reports it as growing to 7". I'm waiting for my other transhipper to
reply. I know that I have sold Pacus which are today (1 year later)
about 7", so their growth rate suggests that are not done growing yet,
but I might be completely wrong. Other Pacus (12"+) I've encountered in
the store were purchased by customers before we were open for business,
so perhaps the trade might have moved to a smaller variety. You might be
right. I believe the expression is "If you have to eat crow, better that
it's young and tender rather than old and tough" ;~)
--
www.NetMax.tk

"NetMax" wrote in message
...
"Mark Stone" wrote in message
om...
"NetMax" wrote in message
...

To be devil's advocate, I buy commercial volumes of fish from
multiple
suppliers including two major importers, and none of them offer any
Pacu
variants, other than the 2 color morphs which both grow to obscene
sizes.
I also don't see any commercial interest in supplying a small Pacu,
as
that's called a Silver dollar (from a retail perspective). The is
also a
further disinterest in supplying yet another silver fish, as there
is
already a glut of them available. Commercially, almost any colour
is
preferable to silver.

Would the vendors you mentioned have access to different farms
which
were
harvesting a fish to compete with the already established Silver
dollar
contrary to the existing non-interest in more silver fish..... ya,
sure,
whatever ;~)

Go take a look at their listings and tell me what you think
(www.fishbase.com). As far as "small Pacu", the 10 to 16 inch sizes
for some of these other variations are certainly small compared to
the
biggie Pacus, but in context to Aquaria that is quite large.

--Mark


One of my transhippers got back to me today. He has been told that the
fish he sells is Metynnis maculatus, and if this is true, then fishbase
reports it as growing to 7". I'm waiting for my other transhipper to
reply. I know that I have sold Pacus which are today (1 year later)
about 7", so their growth rate suggests that are not done growing yet,
but I might be completely wrong. Other Pacus (12"+) I've encountered
in
the store were purchased by customers before we were open for business,
so perhaps the trade might have moved to a smaller variety. You might
be
right. I believe the expression is "If you have to eat crow, better
that
it's young and tender rather than old and tough" ;~)
--
www.NetMax.tk

Another transhipper got back to me today. Probably just muddies the
water, but they offer Colossoma Macropomum (108cm or 42") and usually
sell Colossoma Brachipomum (20-25cm? or 8 to 10") under the name 'Pacu'.
--
www.NetMax.tk

"NetMax" wrote in message ...

To be devil's advocate, I buy commercial volumes of fish from multiple
suppliers including two major importers, and none of them offer any Pacu
variants, other than the 2 color morphs which both grow to obscene sizes.
I also don't see any commercial interest in supplying a small Pacu, as
that's called a Silver dollar (from a retail perspective). The is also a
further disinterest in supplying yet another silver fish, as there is
already a glut of them available. Commercially, almost any colour is
preferable to silver.

Would the vendors you mentioned have access to different farms which were
harvesting a fish to compete with the already established Silver dollar
contrary to the existing non-interest in more silver fish..... ya, sure,
whatever ;~)

Go take a look at their listings and tell me what you think
(www.fishbase.com). As far as "small Pacu", the 10 to 16 inch sizes
for some of these other variations are certainly small compared to the
biggie Pacus, but in context to Aquaria that is quite large.

--Mark

"Mark Stone" wrote in message
m...
:-)

I have long railed against Wal Mart and Petsmart for selling Pacu and
claiming an adult size of only 10 or 11 inches -- common knowledge is
that Pacus grow into huge fish. My issue was that they were selling
these wonderful fish to people with "small" hundred gallon setups,
another example of cruelty to fish. I think that sales are important
enough to them that they are unconcerned with the safety of the
animals they sell -- they sell Oscars to people with ten gallon
"aquariums" without a bit of conscience.

However, I recently visited Fishbase and discovered that there are 10
or 15 species in the Amazon basin that bear the name "Pacu", and a
goodly portion of them only grow to between 9 and 14 inches. They're
like Gouramis, I guess, with a couple of giant versions and some
small.

I'm still not happy with a lot of Walmart and Petsmart's aquaria
practices, but I may owe them an apology for the Pacu thing.

I'm crossposting into RAFC because: 1.) We've discussed this in a
couple of threads, and 2.) All Pacus *want* to be Cichlids.

Fishbase is (I think I remember) www dot fishbase dot com. Might be
Org --

--Mark



I guess that sportfishing with bait is out of the question huh?

--
JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

"jk" wrote in message et...

I guess that sportfishing with bait is out of the question huh?

Certainly not. Different issues here. Walmart and Petsmart are selling
live animals to people specifically to be pets. To sell an animal
knowing you are placing them in a situation that they are going to die
needlessly, and doing so simply for profit, is what I take issue with.
However, I do buy small goldfish for the purpose of feeding my Oscars
and don't believe there's a moral issue with that.

Frankly, I've never thought Sportfishing is cruel to bait or not; I
don't think there's a moral issue there.

--Mark