What's wrong with this picture?

33Gallon with Aquaclear 300, well filtered and cycled (over 1 year),
I do a 25% water/gravel siphon once a week with 48hr air stone aged
temp matched water with recommended dechlorinator. There are
seven 1"-2" Goldfish in the tank.

Temp 72degF
PH 6.7, Ammo 0.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 5.0, Salt 0.1%,
GH 60ppm
KH 20ppm

Last 2-3 days the fish seem fine, but when I approach to feed, they
go nuts and eat like crazy, a few minutes later they go ballistic
in the tank they fly at super high speed from one end of the tank
to the other, sometimes bumping into the glass, this even before
they finish consuming all the food. Then they all jumble up against
each other in one corner of the tank not far from the filter intake.

Are they injesting something toxic on the surface? It's not the
first time I see my fish fly around like that, but it seems to
indicate something is very wrong, All parameters look very good
except KH seems too low. I did notice PH was a bit low (6.7)
vs normal PH is about 7.0. Was my PH just about to crash?
there is almost no buffer (KH) left in the water. Is adding
baking soda a good way to jack the PH up and buff up KH?

I know i'm a bit overstocked, but I'm diligent on maintenance and
Nitrate is really low only 5ppm. The only thing is lately I removed
the heater for a few days, so temp hovered around 68degF vs 72degF
normal, so I put the heater back in tonight

Should i test for something else like phosphates, or iron, or?

....Kodiak

how long since you moved the fish out, pulled the gravel out and cleaned it?
your pH is getting low there. not all toxins can be detected with a couple tests.
Ingrid

"Kodiak" wrote:
I do a 25% water/gravel siphon once a week with 48hr air stone aged
temp matched water with recommended dechlorinator. There are
seven 1"-2" Goldfish in the tank.

Temp 72degF
PH 6.7, Ammo 0.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 5.0, Salt 0.1%,
GH 60ppm
KH 20ppm

Last 2-3 days the fish seem fine, but when I approach to feed, they
go nuts and eat like crazy, a few minutes later they go ballistic
in the tank they fly at super high speed from one end of the tank
to the other,


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Hi Ingrid,
Tank has been running like that for a few years, i never pull
the gravel out to give it a thorough wash. I'm afraid I'll kill the
good biobugs. I use a gravel siphon with a 3/4" hose attached,
and run the hose downstairs from the 2nd floor into the garage.
The vacum is amazing, it really sucks out all the crud. By the time
i'm finished, there is no dirt left, if you run your hand through my
gravel, very little comes out, and my water is crystal clear. Can it
still be loaded with organics?

Do you really think I need to absolutely remove the gravel
every 6 months or so? If so how do you wash? Should i use
a pressure washer? Should i use a bit of bleach? If so what
concentration?

Please comment on low KH, can low KH stress the fish?
Besides crashing the PH...

Did a 25% last night, heater is back in at 72degF, PH is back
up to 7.0, but KH still at 20ppm, I'm afraid PH is gonna crash,
add baking soda?

....Kodiak



wrote in message
...
how long since you moved the fish out, pulled the gravel out and cleaned
it?
your pH is getting low there. not all toxins can be detected with a
couple tests.
Ingrid

"Kodiak" wrote:
I do a 25% water/gravel siphon once a week with 48hr air stone aged
temp matched water with recommended dechlorinator. There are
seven 1"-2" Goldfish in the tank.

Temp 72degF
PH 6.7, Ammo 0.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 5.0, Salt 0.1%,
GH 60ppm
KH 20ppm

Last 2-3 days the fish seem fine, but when I approach to feed, they
go nuts and eat like crazy, a few minutes later they go ballistic
in the tank they fly at super high speed from one end of the tank
to the other,


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Kodiak,

You are talking to the wrong person about gravel. Ingrid has a problem with
it and believes that it is the source of all problems. I have had tank
setup with UGF for 12 years running and never had a problem. I you are
cleaning the grave they way you say you are you should not have a problem
with your gravel. Your pH is a little low as is your KH which should be
around 120-200ppm. Your fish would be better off in pH a little higher in
the high sevens at least. My water is 8.2 pH all the time and my fish are
never sick and eat great and grow and breed wonderfully.

If you are going to use baking soda remember that KH is used up in the bio
cycle of your tank and the carbonate that baking soda adds is used up faster
so you are going to have to add it weekly. When you add it it will probably
also bump up you pH also. You can start by adding it a tablespoon at a
time, wait an hour test and then add somemore until it reaches at least
80ppm and then stop for awhile. Test the next day and then add a teaspoon
at a time depending on what your readings are until you get to 120. The
best range that I have found is 80 - 120 ppm.

HTH

Tom L.L.
----------------------------------------------
"Kodiak" wrote in message
. ..
Hi Ingrid,
Tank has been running like that for a few years, i never pull
the gravel out to give it a thorough wash. I'm afraid I'll kill the
good biobugs. I use a gravel siphon with a 3/4" hose attached,
and run the hose downstairs from the 2nd floor into the garage.
The vacum is amazing, it really sucks out all the crud. By the time
i'm finished, there is no dirt left, if you run your hand through my
gravel, very little comes out, and my water is crystal clear. Can it
still be loaded with organics?

Do you really think I need to absolutely remove the gravel
every 6 months or so? If so how do you wash? Should i use
a pressure washer? Should i use a bit of bleach? If so what
concentration?

Please comment on low KH, can low KH stress the fish?
Besides crashing the PH...

Did a 25% last night, heater is back in at 72degF, PH is back
up to 7.0, but KH still at 20ppm, I'm afraid PH is gonna crash,
add baking soda?

...Kodiak



wrote in message
...
how long since you moved the fish out, pulled the gravel out and cleaned
it?
your pH is getting low there. not all toxins can be detected with a
couple tests.
Ingrid

"Kodiak" wrote:
I do a 25% water/gravel siphon once a week with 48hr air stone aged
temp matched water with recommended dechlorinator. There are
seven 1"-2" Goldfish in the tank.

Temp 72degF
PH 6.7, Ammo 0.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 5.0, Salt 0.1%,
GH 60ppm
KH 20ppm

Last 2-3 days the fish seem fine, but when I approach to feed, they
go nuts and eat like crazy, a few minutes later they go ballistic
in the tank they fly at super high speed from one end of the tank
to the other,


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

If you are absolutely wedded to that gravel you can safely just rinse it off in
treated water and return it to the tank without destroying the biobug colonies. Use
a colander and run the treated water over it. dont put a lot in at a time. I have
had gravel sitting in a 5 gallon container for months and they instantly cycled tanks
(drip filters). If you can run your hands thru teh gravel then there probably isnt
much rotting stuff in there.
so you dont have any big rocks or decorations or plants in that gravel? no place the
organics could accumulate and not get siphoned clean?
lots of people have low pH water and the fish do fine. however, GF do best in
slightly alkaline water because there is sufficient buffer system to keep the pH from
swinging up and down. if that is the pH of your water out of the tap then it is
fine.
sounds like the pH is dropping. you need calcium. find some organic dolomitic
limestone from a gardening center or LFS, but test it to make sure the pH doesnt go
up up up and not stop around 8.4 or so. it has both calcium and magnesium and forms
a fine buffer system. baking soda is temporary. Ingrid


"Kodiak" wrote:

Hi Ingrid,
Tank has been running like that for a few years, i never pull
the gravel out to give it a thorough wash. I'm afraid I'll kill the
good biobugs. I use a gravel siphon with a 3/4" hose attached,
and run the hose downstairs from the 2nd floor into the garage.
The vacum is amazing, it really sucks out all the crud. By the time
i'm finished, there is no dirt left, if you run your hand through my
gravel, very little comes out, and my water is crystal clear. Can it
still be loaded with organics?

Do you really think I need to absolutely remove the gravel
every 6 months or so? If so how do you wash? Should i use
a pressure washer? Should i use a bit of bleach? If so what
concentration?

Please comment on low KH, can low KH stress the fish?
Besides crashing the PH...

Did a 25% last night, heater is back in at 72degF, PH is back
up to 7.0, but KH still at 20ppm, I'm afraid PH is gonna crash,
add baking soda?

...Kodiak


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.