Cycled already?

Hello everyone...

6 days ago I setup my 25G tank with plants and 5 neon tetras. It was a 2nd hand setup I had bought and had been empty for 3 weeks. The pump that came with it was a Eheim Pro II 2026. I only changed the white foam filter in this as the pump was only 6 months old according to the guy I brought it off.
Today I did my first test for ammonia etc. My results for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate all came back at 0ppm.
Has my tank cycled already or has it not even started yet?
Have never done this before and only going on info I have read on the net I was expecting maybe a small ammonia lvl and maybe some trace nitrites.

Any advice appreciated

On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 05:02:37 +0100, kiwitetra wrote:


Hello everyone...

6 days ago I setup my 25G tank with plants and 5 neon tetras. It was a 2nd
hand setup I had bought and had been empty for 3 weeks. The pump that came
with it was a Eheim Pro II 2026. I only changed the white foam filter in
this as the pump was only 6 months old according to the guy I brought it
off.
Today I did my first test for ammonia etc. My results for ammonia, nitrite
and nitrate all came back at 0ppm. Has my tank cycled already or has it
not even started yet? Have never done this before and only going on info I
have read on the net I was expecting maybe a small ammonia lvl and maybe
some trace nitrites.

Any advice appreciated


Hasn't started yet it seems to me. You need to see NitrAtes, that's a tip
off to me at least. 5-20ppm. Hmmmmmm....

Not only has it not started it may not ever start. You have over five
gallons of water per fish, the fish you have are known for not making
much pollution at all and you have plants in your tank. In this
situation the plants are probably able to eat any ammonia the tetras
are producing before the bacteria even get a shot at it.

Of course there is nothing wrong with that. The way you have this tank
set up it may be a couple months before you see ammonia or nitrates if
you ever do. In fact I would be willing to bet that if you have healthy
well growing plants you will never see any of either. If you are
planning on adding more fish go ahead and add a few to speed up the
process. If you aren't planning on adding more fish then
congratulations - you have quite possibly just created the lowest
maintenance tank you will ever have.

If you want advice on how to proceed from here then tell us what plants
you have and how many of them, how bright your light is (how many
watts), and finally what additional fish you plan to add. If you do
that then someone can tell you which fish are safe to add now and which
you should wait a little bit on.

Good job on being responsible. With the recent discussions on
overstocking this is the first example of a new aquariast starting
slowly (like you're supposed to) that I've seen in a while. I'm sure
your tank will be successful.

-Daniel

"kiwitetra" wrote in
message .. .

Hello everyone...

6 days ago I setup my 25G tank with plants and 5 neon tetras. It was a
2nd hand setup I had bought and had been empty for 3 weeks. The pump
that came with it was a Eheim Pro II 2026. I only changed the white
foam filter in this as the pump was only 6 months old according to the
guy I brought it off.
Today I did my first test for ammonia etc. My results for ammonia,
nitrite and nitrate all came back at 0ppm.
Has my tank cycled already or has it not even started yet?
Have never done this before and only going on info I have read on the
net I was expecting maybe a small ammonia lvl and maybe some trace
nitrites.

Any advice appreciated


--
kiwitetra

Between your low fish-load (5 Neons in 25g) and your existing waste
processing capabilities (live plants) your 'cycling' might stay under the
test kit's threshold, and if it even occurs (the cycling), it could take
a much longer time than normal. The bad news is that you've established
a set-up which might make it difficult to quantify the cycling. The good
news is that it might not matter, and the fish will never be exposed to
any measurable ammonia/nitrite levels.

Overall this isn't a problem is you're willing to leave the tank alone
for about 6 weeks (or not to significantly change the fish-load).
However, if you wanted to ramp-up your fish-load more aggressively, then
this strategy lacks the chemical cues to direct your activities with
confidence.

Let us know what your plans are (fish introductions and timing of) and
tell us a bit about your plants (how many, how well they are doing and
your lighting), and I'm sure we can give you more precise advice going
forward.
--
www.NetMax.tk

Originally Posted by NetMax

"kiwitetra" wrote in
message .. .

Hello everyone...

6 days ago I setup my 25G tank with plants and 5 neon tetras. It was a
2nd hand setup I had bought and had been empty for 3 weeks. The pump
that came with it was a Eheim Pro II 2026. I only changed the white
foam filter in this as the pump was only 6 months old according to the
guy I brought it off.
Today I did my first test for ammonia etc. My results for ammonia,
nitrite and nitrate all came back at 0ppm.
Has my tank cycled already or has it not even started yet?
Have never done this before and only going on info I have read on the
net I was expecting maybe a small ammonia lvl and maybe some trace
nitrites.

Any advice appreciated


--
kiwitetra

Between your low fish-load (5 Neons in 25g) and your existing waste
processing capabilities (live plants) your 'cycling' might stay under the
test kit's threshold, and if it even occurs (the cycling), it could take
a much longer time than normal. The bad news is that you've established
a set-up which might make it difficult to quantify the cycling. The good
news is that it might not matter, and the fish will never be exposed to
any measurable ammonia/nitrite levels.

Overall this isn't a problem is you're willing to leave the tank alone
for about 6 weeks (or not to significantly change the fish-load).
However, if you wanted to ramp-up your fish-load more aggressively, then
this strategy lacks the chemical cues to direct your activities with
confidence.

Let us know what your plans are (fish introductions and timing of) and
tell us a bit about your plants (how many, how well they are doing and
your lighting), and I'm sure we can give you more precise advice going
forward.
--
www.NetMax.tk

Thankyou for your replies.

My tank is a hexagonal design, approx 20" across by 24" high.
The light has 2 x 8W 12" long Aqua-Glo tubes. The light is on 11 hrs a day, 12pm - 11pm.

I'm sorry but I don't know the names of the plants. I just bought a selection of 10 from the "10 plants for $15.00" tank. My lfs suggested this to see how well they grow before buying the more expensive plants. The plants have had approx 10-15% growth in the first week, some more than others. Is this about average?

I only have small pebbles in my tank (approx 3/8", 10mm size), is this small enough for plants to root into?

Ok now to the fish...

My plan is to have a small community tank and I am open to suggestions about what fish to put in, how many, and at what time intervals to do this.

Also i guess I should mention I haven't done any water changes yet, and going by my water results I don't think thats an issue. When the time comes to do a water change what is the best way to do this? Do I need to buy another heater to get the tempature right, or just play with hot and cold tap and a thermometer?

One final thing, do I need an air pump? Because my tank is tall and not long the pipe feeding the water into the tank is totally submerged so there is no splash. I'm concerned the plants may not be adding enough oxygen for my fish. Once again, probably not an issue now but once more fish are added it might be.

Thanks for your time.

"kiwitetra" wrote in
message .. .

NetMax Wrote:
"kiwitetra" wrote in
message .. .-

Hello everyone...

6 days ago I setup my 25G tank with plants and 5 neon tetras. It was
a
2nd hand setup I had bought and had been empty for 3 weeks. The pump
that came with it was a Eheim Pro II 2026. I only changed the white
foam filter in this as the pump was only 6 months old according to
the
guy I brought it off.
Today I did my first test for ammonia etc. My results for ammonia,
nitrite and nitrate all came back at 0ppm.
Has my tank cycled already or has it not even started yet?
Have never done this before and only going on info I have read on the
net I was expecting maybe a small ammonia lvl and maybe some trace
nitrites.

Any advice appreciated


--
kiwitetra-

Between your low fish-load (5 Neons in 25g) and your existing waste
processing capabilities (live plants) your 'cycling' might stay under
the
test kit's threshold, and if it even occurs (the cycling), it could
take
a much longer time than normal. The bad news is that you've
established
a set-up which might make it difficult to quantify the cycling. The
good
news is that it might not matter, and the fish will never be exposed
to
any measurable ammonia/nitrite levels.

Overall this isn't a problem is you're willing to leave the tank alone
for about 6 weeks (or not to significantly change the fish-load).
However, if you wanted to ramp-up your fish-load more aggressively,
then
this strategy lacks the chemical cues to direct your activities with
confidence.

Let us know what your plans are (fish introductions and timing of) and
tell us a bit about your plants (how many, how well they are doing and
your lighting), and I'm sure we can give you more precise advice going
forward.
--
www.NetMax.tk

Thankyou for your replies.

My tank is a hexagonal design, approx 20" across by 24" high.
The light has 2 x 8W 12" long Aqua-Glo tubes. The light is on 11 hrs a
day, 12pm - 11pm.

You have 16w of light in a 25g penetrating 24" deep. This is a low light
tank. Experimenting with different types will hit on a few successes. I
had a 32g hex of similar dimensions grow Pennywort and Amazon swords
quite well.

I'm sorry but I don't know the names of the plants. I just bought a
selection of 10 from the "10 plants for $15.00" tank. My lfs suggested
this to see how well they grow before buying the more expensive plants.
The plants have had approx 10-15% growth in the first week, some more
than others. Is this about average?

There probably does not exist an 'average' to compare with. I think
plants can sustain a short growth period independant of their current
conditions, based on the sugars they have stored, so the growth might
change in the next few weeks. Don't expect all the plants to do well,
they never do, even in ideal conditions.

I only have small pebbles in my tank (approx 3/8", 10mm size), is this
small enough for plants to root into?

New sterile 3/8" gravel pebbles are probably not ideal ;~), but you have
to start somewhere. A smaller size pebble would probably have been
kinder to the plant roots. There are lots of low light Anubius which
will do great in that. You'll just have to see how it goes (or how it
grows).

Ok now to the fish...

My plan is to have a small community tank and I am open to suggestions
about what fish to put in, how many, and at what time intervals to do
this.

Harlequin rasboras shoal nicely in a tank this size. Also think about
Otos, Pygmy Corys, Coolies, Hatchetfish, very small Gouramis (Chocolate,
Licorice or Dwarf)... that kind of fish. Ideally you have a 10g tank
somewhere to quarantine these new arrivals as you get them. After 4 to 6
weeks of no ammonia or nitrites, and possibly (hopefully) some nitrate
measurements, you can double the fish-load every week (or adding 4-5 fish
a week).

Also i guess I should mention I haven't done any water changes yet, and
going by my water results I don't think thats an issue. When the time
comes to do a water change what is the best way to do this? Do I need
to buy another heater to get the tempature right, or just play with hot
and cold tap and a thermometer?

You're asking these questions as if there will be a definitive and
agreed-upon answer to them all ;~). Many opinions vary, but imo,
generally for municipal water, you can just play with the taps and
dechlorinate in the tank. Gravel vacuum with some type of pipe with
suction (look at how the Python works), and don't vacuum under plants.
For the average person, there isn't any chemical clues as to how often
the water needs to be partially changed. We sometimes go by nitrate
levels, but planted tanks can keep the NO3 level at zero. Typically
then, try to do about 20% water change per week. It is to thin out many
things which you cannot neccesarily measure.

One final thing, do I need an air pump? Because my tank is tall and not
long the pipe feeding the water into the tank is totally submerged so
there is no splash. I'm concerned the plants may not be adding enough
oxygen for my fish. Once again, probably not an issue now but once more
fish are added it might be.

Wouldn't hurt, but with a light fish-load (keeping to small fish), it's
probably not neccesary. The O2 comes through the water's surface, so the
filter needs to keep some surface movement, and circulate the water
downwards.
--
www.NetMax.tk

Thanks for your time.


--
kiwitetra

Originally Posted by NetMax

"kiwitetra" wrote in
message .. .

NetMax Wrote:
"kiwitetra" wrote in
message .. .-

Hello everyone...

6 days ago I setup my 25G tank with plants and 5 neon tetras. It was
a
2nd hand setup I had bought and had been empty for 3 weeks. The pump
that came with it was a Eheim Pro II 2026. I only changed the white
foam filter in this as the pump was only 6 months old according to
the
guy I brought it off.
Today I did my first test for ammonia etc. My results for ammonia,
nitrite and nitrate all came back at 0ppm.
Has my tank cycled already or has it not even started yet?
Have never done this before and only going on info I have read on the
net I was expecting maybe a small ammonia lvl and maybe some trace
nitrites.

Any advice appreciated


--
kiwitetra-

Between your low fish-load (5 Neons in 25g) and your existing waste
processing capabilities (live plants) your 'cycling' might stay under
the
test kit's threshold, and if it even occurs (the cycling), it could
take
a much longer time than normal. The bad news is that you've
established
a set-up which might make it difficult to quantify the cycling. The
good
news is that it might not matter, and the fish will never be exposed
to
any measurable ammonia/nitrite levels.

Overall this isn't a problem is you're willing to leave the tank alone
for about 6 weeks (or not to significantly change the fish-load).
However, if you wanted to ramp-up your fish-load more aggressively,
then
this strategy lacks the chemical cues to direct your activities with
confidence.

Let us know what your plans are (fish introductions and timing of) and
tell us a bit about your plants (how many, how well they are doing and
your lighting), and I'm sure we can give you more precise advice going
forward.
--
www.NetMax.tk

Thankyou for your replies.

My tank is a hexagonal design, approx 20" across by 24" high.
The light has 2 x 8W 12" long Aqua-Glo tubes. The light is on 11 hrs a
day, 12pm - 11pm.

You have 16w of light in a 25g penetrating 24" deep. This is a low light
tank. Experimenting with different types will hit on a few successes. I
had a 32g hex of similar dimensions grow Pennywort and Amazon swords
quite well.

I'm sorry but I don't know the names of the plants. I just bought a
selection of 10 from the "10 plants for $15.00" tank. My lfs suggested
this to see how well they grow before buying the more expensive plants.
The plants have had approx 10-15% growth in the first week, some more
than others. Is this about average?

There probably does not exist an 'average' to compare with. I think
plants can sustain a short growth period independant of their current
conditions, based on the sugars they have stored, so the growth might
change in the next few weeks. Don't expect all the plants to do well,
they never do, even in ideal conditions.

I only have small pebbles in my tank (approx 3/8", 10mm size), is this
small enough for plants to root into?

New sterile 3/8" gravel pebbles are probably not ideal ;~), but you have
to start somewhere. A smaller size pebble would probably have been
kinder to the plant roots. There are lots of low light Anubius which
will do great in that. You'll just have to see how it goes (or how it
grows).

Ok now to the fish...

My plan is to have a small community tank and I am open to suggestions
about what fish to put in, how many, and at what time intervals to do
this.

Harlequin rasboras shoal nicely in a tank this size. Also think about
Otos, Pygmy Corys, Coolies, Hatchetfish, very small Gouramis (Chocolate,
Licorice or Dwarf)... that kind of fish. Ideally you have a 10g tank
somewhere to quarantine these new arrivals as you get them. After 4 to 6
weeks of no ammonia or nitrites, and possibly (hopefully) some nitrate
measurements, you can double the fish-load every week (or adding 4-5 fish
a week).

Also i guess I should mention I haven't done any water changes yet, and
going by my water results I don't think thats an issue. When the time
comes to do a water change what is the best way to do this? Do I need
to buy another heater to get the tempature right, or just play with hot
and cold tap and a thermometer?

You're asking these questions as if there will be a definitive and
agreed-upon answer to them all ;~). Many opinions vary, but imo,
generally for municipal water, you can just play with the taps and
dechlorinate in the tank. Gravel vacuum with some type of pipe with
suction (look at how the Python works), and don't vacuum under plants.
For the average person, there isn't any chemical clues as to how often
the water needs to be partially changed. We sometimes go by nitrate
levels, but planted tanks can keep the NO3 level at zero. Typically
then, try to do about 20% water change per week. It is to thin out many
things which you cannot neccesarily measure.

One final thing, do I need an air pump? Because my tank is tall and not
long the pipe feeding the water into the tank is totally submerged so
there is no splash. I'm concerned the plants may not be adding enough
oxygen for my fish. Once again, probably not an issue now but once more
fish are added it might be.

Wouldn't hurt, but with a light fish-load (keeping to small fish), it's
probably not neccesary. The O2 comes through the water's surface, so the
filter needs to keep some surface movement, and circulate the water
downwards.
--
www.NetMax.tk

Thanks for your time.


--
kiwitetra

Thanks for your prompt reply. Lots of good advice there. After visiting my lfs I settled on increasing my number of tetras to 10. I'll just keep testing and go from there. Thanks again.

snip

Also i guess I should mention I haven't done any water changes yet, and
going by my water results I don't think thats an issue. When the time
comes to do a water change what is the best way to do this? Do I need
to buy another heater to get the tempature right, or just play with hot
and cold tap and a thermometer?

You're asking these questions as if there will be a definitive and
agreed-upon answer to them all ;~). Many opinions vary, but imo,
generally for municipal water, you can just play with the taps and
dechlorinate in the tank. Gravel vacuum with some type of pipe with
suction (look at how the Python works), and don't vacuum under plants. For
the average person, there isn't any chemical clues as to how often the
water needs to be partially changed. We sometimes go by nitrate levels,
but planted tanks can keep the NO3 level at zero. Typically then, try to
do about 20% water change per week. It is to thin out many things which
you cannot neccesarily measure.


That is a question that I have hassled with since I bought my Python
aquarium cleaning setup. I am still adding water to the fish tanks by
filling a bucket by the tank with the hose and adding the de-chlorinator to
that, then dumping into the tank. So it IS OK to add the chems to the tank
and then fill with the hose from the tap??

---scott

Scott wrote:
snip

Also i guess I should mention I haven't done any water changes yet, and
going by my water results I don't think thats an issue. When the time
comes to do a water change what is the best way to do this? Do I need
to buy another heater to get the tempature right, or just play with hot
and cold tap and a thermometer?

You're asking these questions as if there will be a definitive and
agreed-upon answer to them all ;~). Many opinions vary, but imo,
generally for municipal water, you can just play with the taps and
dechlorinate in the tank. Gravel vacuum with some type of pipe with
suction (look at how the Python works), and don't vacuum under plants. For
the average person, there isn't any chemical clues as to how often the
water needs to be partially changed. We sometimes go by nitrate levels,
but planted tanks can keep the NO3 level at zero. Typically then, try to
do about 20% water change per week. It is to thin out many things which
you cannot neccesarily measure.



That is a question that I have hassled with since I bought my Python
aquarium cleaning setup. I am still adding water to the fish tanks by
filling a bucket by the tank with the hose and adding the de-chlorinator to
that, then dumping into the tank. So it IS OK to add the chems to the tank
and then fill with the hose from the tap??

---scott


I used to do that with DISCUS and they showed no signs of stress. I
can't think of a better measure. Dechlorinator is a very fast chemical
reaction.

--
__ Elaine T __
__' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

Scott wrote:
snip

Also i guess I should mention I haven't done any water changes yet, and
going by my water results I don't think thats an issue. When the time
comes to do a water change what is the best way to do this? Do I need
to buy another heater to get the tempature right, or just play with hot
and cold tap and a thermometer?

You're asking these questions as if there will be a definitive and
agreed-upon answer to them all ;~). Many opinions vary, but imo,
generally for municipal water, you can just play with the taps and
dechlorinate in the tank. Gravel vacuum with some type of pipe with
suction (look at how the Python works), and don't vacuum under plants. For
the average person, there isn't any chemical clues as to how often the
water needs to be partially changed. We sometimes go by nitrate levels,
but planted tanks can keep the NO3 level at zero. Typically then, try to
do about 20% water change per week. It is to thin out many things which
you cannot neccesarily measure.



That is a question that I have hassled with since I bought my Python
aquarium cleaning setup. I am still adding water to the fish tanks by
filling a bucket by the tank with the hose and adding the de-chlorinator to
that, then dumping into the tank. So it IS OK to add the chems to the tank
and then fill with the hose from the tap??

Personally, I'm not very comfortable with idea. Dumping the
dechlorinator directly into the tank means that it will be diluted 10
times - 10% water change. That could mean it takes 10 times longer to
neutralise the chlorine doing damamge in the meantime. But that's purely
a guess.

Nikki