Calcium Montmorillonite Clay ??

Yes, I have green water, ...

A good UV sterlizer will take that right out*. Assuming you have no
real water quality issues, the problem would be solved.

,,,some string algae on waterfall spillway rock...

An enzyme digester, if that bothers you?

Pond is 2000 gals, 24 inches deep. I have a bio-filter in pond-- and a
veggie filter at the top of the waterfall.

Let's here about the size of your biofilter (which type?) and veggie filter,
as well as your flow rates.

And the veggie filter... it is lively?

C//

* p.s., I'm new at this, and have been doing a ginormous amount of reading;
book learning isn't to be mistaken for hard experience. Be that as it
may, the written word is: UV sterilizers zap free floating single cell algae.

Thank you for your advice about purchasing pond products. (Point taken,
see bottom.)

I understand that there are two types of bentonite-- Sodium & Calcium.
Apparently, the sodium type clumps more, where as the calcium type, is a
bit more soluble (perhaps better, for some types of filtration.)
See: http://www.sfbakc.org/koienews/clayvsclay.html

I found this (see below) on the site: (along with info on how it makes
the water crystal clear and destroys algae.)

"Wal-Mart has a brand of kitty litter, apparently only carried by
Wal-Mart since it is their special brand, which is clearly labeled as
Bentonite clay, the preferred kind of clay to add to fish ponds. It's
brand name is 'Special Kitty', in a 25 pound red colored bag
(unscented), costing $5 for the 25 pound bag."

## I've been reading that here for years. However my koi and goldfish are
thriving on a diet of about 80% catfish food and 20% kitten and puppy chow.
There is no logical reason the people making pond fish foods should be
charging $5 a lb and up other than greed.

It's like my neighborhood. I always have to get three or four contractor
bids on a job before I can get one fairly priced. Why? First thing the
contractor sees when the drive into my neighborhood is $1.5M homes. *cha
ching*. I've saved as much as 30% or more on jobs, and the work has always
been good.

Anyway, with Koi, it applies. There is a perception that Koi are the habit
of those with money.

Hey. Anyone out there raise live food for their fish?

C//

"Bette E" wrote in message
...
Thank you for your advice about purchasing pond products. (Point taken,
see bottom.)

I understand that there are two types of bentonite-- Sodium & Calcium.
Apparently, the sodium type clumps more, where as the calcium type, is a
bit more soluble (perhaps better, for some types of filtration.)
See: http://www.sfbakc.org/koienews/clayvsclay.html

I found this (see below) on the site: (along with info on how it makes
the water crystal clear and destroys algae.)

"Wal-Mart has a brand of kitty litter, apparently only carried by
Wal-Mart since it is their special brand, which is clearly labeled as
Bentonite clay, the preferred kind of clay to add to fish ponds. It's
brand name is 'Special Kitty', in a 25 pound red colored bag
(unscented), costing $5 for the 25 pound bag."

Even better, goto a industrial pump company or better, a drilling supply
company, and you can buy 100 lbs of bentonite powder for $6. FYI.

There is no logical reason the people making pond fish foods should
be
charging $5 a lb and up other than greed.

The purpose of a business is to make as much money as possible by
producing a product people choose to buy. If people chose not to buy
these products they wouldn't be able to charge as much for it. If you
want to blame "greed" on the part of the companies then you ought to
blame the consumers for "sloth" and "ignorance" because we aren't
seeking out cheaper alternatives.

It's especially odd to see that you're complaining about corporate
greed when it relates to feeding decorative fish that live in
artificial outdoor ponds. Some might find it "greedly" for you (and
me) to engage in excess like that when place problem here exists in
the world. Unless you're the poorest schmuck on the planet, everyone
can call someone else "greedy" as an easy way of dismissing a situation
they are jealous about or do not understand.

Be careful of the word greed. Greed has got to be the most overused and
misused word in the English language. Yes, I won't deny that it exists
but it's overused generally by the truely greedy to restrict the rights
of others.

"scs0" wrote in message
oups.com...
There is no logical reason the people making pond fish foods should
be
charging $5 a lb and up other than greed.

The purpose of a business is to make as much money as possible by
producing a product people choose to buy. If people chose not to buy
these products they wouldn't be able to charge as much for it. If you
want to blame "greed" on the part of the companies then you ought to
blame the consumers for "sloth" and "ignorance" because we aren't
seeking out cheaper alternatives.

## Sloth no. Ignorance - yes! If people are willing the pay the price of
a diamond for a zirconium then they will laugh all the way to the bank. :-)

It's especially odd to see that you're complaining about corporate
greed when it relates to feeding decorative fish that live in
artificial outdoor ponds. Some might find it "greedly" for you (and
me) to engage in excess like that when place problem here exists in
the world.

## You can't compare apples to window shades. We're talking about obscene
profit at the expense of the gullible. Koi and GF thrive on cheaper diets
than what they're pushing on us.

Unless you're the poorest schmuck on the planet, everyone
can call someone else "greedy" as an easy way of dismissing a situation
they are jealous about or do not understand.

## Huh? What's to understand? The feed Co's producing catfish and other
fish chows are making a profit by selling it at $5 to $6 per 25 lbs. Some
ornamental fish foods sell for $5 and up *per lb.* Many people see that as
obscene profit and use the cheaper foods rather than enrich some greedy Co.

Be careful of the word greed. Greed has got to be the most overused and
misused word in the English language. Yes, I won't deny that it exists
but it's overused generally by the truely greedy to restrict the rights
of others.

## Are we talking politics here or fish food? :-)
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: ""Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

"Courageous" wrote in message
...

## Sloth no. Ignorance - yes!

Don't forget just plain stupidity. Plenty of people will /prefer/
to buy a thing branded for a specific purpose, even if they find
the same thing for less money, but not branded for that purpose.

Go figure.
=============================
It reminds me of a friend I had a few years ago. She would rather spend $40
to $50 for a pair of jeans at the LaRitz at the Mall than get almost the
same exact pair for $17.99 at Wal-Mart. I bought Halston cologne at K-Mart
for $19.99 but she wouldn't DARE shop at such a place - and paid $29.99 for
the same cologne at a fragrance store..... some people think the more they
spend the better the product. PS,... the $50 jeans don't last any longer
than the $18.00 jeans. :-)

As long as my fish thrive and reproduce on catfish chow at $10 - $12 per 50
lb sack with some kitten and pup chow that's what they'll get.

I did pick up the clay/cat litter this afternoon but am clueless as to how
people are using it to clear the water in their ponds. Any suggestions?
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

artificial outdoor ponds. Some might find it "greedly" for you (and
me) to engage in excess like that when place problem here exists in
the world.

So true. :-( ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

"Reel McKoi" wrote in message
...


## Huh? What's to understand? The feed Co's producing catfish and
other
fish chows are making a profit by selling it at $5 to $6 per 25 lbs.
Some
ornamental fish foods sell for $5 and up *per lb.* Many people see that
as
obscene profit and use the cheaper foods rather than enrich some greedy
Co.

Fish food bought at pet shops generally cost more per pound than a pound of
Sirloin steak at a grocery store (especially marine fish food). This is
especially obcene when you consider that much of the product that goes into
it is by and large the leftovers from animal rendering plants and grain
processing plants with a little bit of choline chloride thrown in for good
measure (a product which the company my brother works for makes in huge
quantities for pennies for animal feed). Having said that, some stores
understand how obcenely expensive these products are. I frequent a garden
pond shop that is located about 5 miles from my home. They sell a generic
food that they buy in bulk and sell for about $1.99 for one pound bags, and
they still make a profit from it. Many farmers supply stores sell pond
fish food to farmers in bulk for far less than that per pound. Those who
say that Koi have special nutritional needs might think about what they are
paying for that little extra amount of nutition, which I have no doubt adds
little value to their food. If you are concerned about what your fish eat,
you can always suppliment their diet with inexpensive natural foods that
are likely to be much better for them in the long fun. I have found that
when I feed my catfish his generic food, the Koi prefer it to their own
food (which is also generic), and will play a game of cat and mouse with
the catfish just for the chance to get a morsel or two of the catfish food.
I have yet to loose a single fish because of their diet.

On Wed, 25 May 2005 08:16:50 -0700, ~ janj JJsPond.us
wrote:

===artificial outdoor ponds. Some might find it "greedly" for you (and
===me) to engage in excess like that when place problem here exists in
===the world.
===
===So true. :-( ~ jan
===
=== ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

Yes, especially for the prices the koi clay fetches, as compared to a
100# bag of it locally for under $6.00. Maybe I need to buy a few bags
and peddle it on ebay for a slight fee as well as my excess crop of
frog bit, water clover, duck weed, parrots feather , water snowflake
and sensitive fern..........which almost seems like a weekly chore to
keep under control anymore.

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o