Discus keeping revisited - and some questions

As a teenager in the 70's (go on, work it out :-)) I loved keeping discus (at the time my tank was on top of the cupboard in my bedroom!). When I went to university a few years later that hobby went away (soccer, girls and even the occasional study took over!!). I had another stint with discus keeping in the early 90's before my wife and I relocated to the US (we are displaced Brits). I enjoyed my discus back then and had them breeding, albeit without getting to the stage where I actually saw fry (we moved to the States as I was investigating the cause of the eggs frosting over). Anyway, to cut a long story short I am interested all over again, this time with two girls (aged 8 and 10) who have an interest. Through the generations...

I bought a nice Oceanic 72 gallon bow front aquarium over the weekend. I am very happy with the look of this thing in my living room - it's very functional as both a fish tank and a focal point for the room.

My PRIMARY goal is to build a really attractive discus tank with stellar discus. It would be cool to one day see them breed - but that is a secondary priority to the overall desire to see healthy, beautiful discus happily swimming around in my living room setting. So, I am not interested in an empty aquarium (no substrate, plants, etc) - the look is very important. That said, I have found artificial plants to be perfectly acceptable and have installed a bunch this evening. A relatively low maintenence schedule is also a goal, within reason of course, hence the preference for artificial plants.

I installed a Fluval 404 filter with the provided media - sponge for mechanical, carbon for chemical and those bio-cylinder things (can’t remember the precise name) for biological. I have two heaters, heating to 82 degrees. After a day or so of running the filter (filled directly from the tap, with an addition of a ph 6.5 powder and Cycle) I purchased a few fish to get the cycle under way (4 serpae tetra and 4 silver-tipped tetra). At this point, I have a ph of 6.5 and ammonium, nitrite and nitrate readings of zero (after two days with the fish). The new additions are eating and swimming around very happily. Here are my questions...

Am I correct in saying that I should expect an increase in ammonia FIRST, then nitrites and then nitrates?

I know ammonia and nitrites should be kept to a minimum in an established tank (readings of zero?). What about nitrates? What's a "good" reading?

When should I expect to see the cycle get under way in earnest, given the size of my tank and the initially small number of fish.

How do I know when the cycle is ‘done’ (ready to add discus)?

Once ready, how many discus would you suggest I initially add? I have seen widely varying suggestions and want to shoot for at least 4 full grown discus (I will buy them smaller). Feasible? What about more (8 would be nice)?

I am, of course, very eager to pick up my first few discus, as are my kids! But I also want to do this right! I’d very much appreciate any comments on the questions above.

Thanks in advance.

Mark

"markwill" wrote in message
...

As a teenager in the 70's (go on, work it out :-)) I loved keeping
discus (at the time my tank was on top of the cupboard in my bedroom!).
When I went to university a few years later that hobby went away
(soccer, girls and even the occasional study took over!!). I had
another stint with discus keeping in the early 90's before my wife and
I relocated to the US (we are displaced Brits). I enjoyed my discus
back then and had them breeding, albeit without getting to the stage
where I actually saw fry (we moved to the States as I was investigating
the cause of the eggs frosting over). Anyway, to cut a long story short
I am interested all over again, this time with two girls (aged 8 and
10) who have an interest. Through the generations...

I bought a nice Oceanic 72 gallon bow front aquarium over the weekend.
I am very happy with the look of this thing in my living room - it's
very functional as both a fish tank and a focal point for the room.

My PRIMARY goal is to build a really attractive discus tank with
stellar discus. It would be cool to one day see them breed - but that
is a secondary priority to the overall desire to see healthy, beautiful
discus happily swimming around in my living room setting. So, I am not
interested in an empty aquarium (no substrate, plants, etc) - the look
is very important. That said, I have found artificial plants to be
perfectly acceptable and have installed a bunch this evening. A
relatively low maintenence schedule is also a goal, within reason of
course, hence the preference for artificial plants.

I installed a Fluval 404 filter with the provided media - sponge for
mechanical, carbon for chemical and those bio-cylinder things (can't
remember the precise name) for biological. I have two heaters, heating
to 82 degrees. After a day or so of running the filter (filled directly
from the tap, with an addition of a ph 6.5 powder and Cycle) I purchased
a few fish to get the cycle under way (4 serpae tetra and 4
silver-tipped tetra). At this point, I have a ph of 6.5 and ammonium,
nitrite and nitrate readings of zero (after two days with the fish).
The new additions are eating and swimming around very happily. Here are
my questions...

There is a general consensus that pH altering chemicals are more trouble
than benefit, and the formula for Cycle (as it was released) was not as
effective as other bacteria starters.

Am I correct in saying that I should expect an increase in ammonia
FIRST, then nitrites and then nitrates?

Technically yes, though how discernable the measurements will be, may vary
as you have a relatively small fish load (8 tetras in a 72g).

I know ammonia and nitrites should be kept to a minimum in an
established tank (readings of zero?). What about nitrates? What's a
"good" reading?

ammonia and nitrites: zero
nitrates: 10-20ppm would not be a problem, though there are other organic
compounds building up which can be problematic if you skimp on water changes
in a non-planted tank (plants do a lot of chemical filtering).

When should I expect to see the cycle get under way in earnest, given
the size of my tank and the initially small number of fish.

I see that you have already appreciated the effect ;~). I would guess 2
weeks.

How do I know when the cycle is 'done' (ready to add discus)?

The cycle is complete when there are no ammonia or nitrite levels. This
will probably take between 6 and 10 weeks in your set-up, but this is just a
guess as it varies, especially as your pH is forced so low (into bacteria
unfriendly acidic conditions).

Once ready, how many discus would you suggest I initially add? I have
seen widely varying suggestions and want to shoot for at least 4 full
grown discus (I will buy them smaller). Feasible? What about more (8
would be nice)?

It can depend by looking at this behaviourally or by water volume. They are
cichlids which will establish a pecking order, and they are somewhat
territorial. Personally, I would purchase 7 with the expectation that 6
survive to young adults and 5 survive to full grown. I've never not gotten
a breeding pair out of 5 cichlids (though statistically, to be almost 100%
sure, the correct number is 8 to juvenile stage).
--
www.NetMax.tk ... another teenager of the 70s ;~)

I am, of course, very eager to pick up my first few discus, as are my
kids! But I also want to do this right! I'd very much appreciate any
comments on the questions above.

Thanks in advance.

Mark


--
markwill

Thank you for the response, netmax. Very helpful. As is your website, now in my Favorites folder :-)

Thanks again.

Mark