what to do with overflow?

Exactly, I toyed with lowering overflow skim box below the tank's water
line. This created a lot more flow to the sump, and return area didn't run
dry, however this is not acceptable arangement ( sump won't take THAT much
water if pump fails or power goes down).

So far I have two options. First, redesign return area to be as large as
possible. Second is to make more "teeth" in the overflow surface skimmer
box. (or widen them up)

I'd like to explore first option to the fullest extent before I start
grinding teeth in the overwflow box.


"kim gross" wrote in message
...
Wayne Sallee wrote:
Because I don't think that is the true problem. Maybe the overflow lets
the water fluctuate more than he wants, but I think that the bigest
problem that he is having, is that the water volume in the sump is so
small that it does not give him adiquate room for that fluctuation.

Wayne Sallee


Charles Spitzer wrote:



Correct.

Depending on the size of the tank, if the water level raises 1/4 of an
inch it could be more than 1.5 gallons of water alone, let alone the water
in the pipes. 3 gallons is not much water, and most overflows depending
on the tooth arrangement can use up to 1/2 or even 3/4 of on inch of water
to build up before they are close to max flow, and if the overflow needs
3/4 of on inch of water in a 72x18 tank, that would be around 4 gallons of
water, so the sump would run dry before the overflow got to max flow
rate..... An of course if he has a long pipe run with large pipe there
could be a gallon of water in the return pipe also.


Kim

How high over the box does the water rise?

Wayne Sallee



TekCat wrote:
Exactly, I toyed with lowering overflow skim box below the tank's water
line. This created a lot more flow to the sump, and return area didn't run
dry, however this is not acceptable arangement ( sump won't take THAT much
water if pump fails or power goes down).

So far I have two options. First, redesign return area to be as large as
possible. Second is to make more "teeth" in the overflow surface skimmer
box. (or widen them up)

I'd like to explore first option to the fullest extent before I start
grinding teeth in the overwflow box.


"kim gross" wrote in message
...

Wayne Sallee wrote:

Because I don't think that is the true problem. Maybe the overflow lets
the water fluctuate more than he wants, but I think that the bigest
problem that he is having, is that the water volume in the sump is so
small that it does not give him adiquate room for that fluctuation.

Wayne Sallee


Charles Spitzer wrote:



Correct.

Depending on the size of the tank, if the water level raises 1/4 of an
inch it could be more than 1.5 gallons of water alone, let alone the water
in the pipes. 3 gallons is not much water, and most overflows depending
on the tooth arrangement can use up to 1/2 or even 3/4 of on inch of water
to build up before they are close to max flow, and if the overflow needs
3/4 of on inch of water in a 72x18 tank, that would be around 4 gallons of
water, so the sump would run dry before the overflow got to max flow
rate..... An of course if he has a long pipe run with large pipe there
could be a gallon of water in the return pipe also.


Kim

it rises about 1/4" ... it could go up an 1.5", but my sump gets dry very
quickly, so it never reaches 1.5" mark
I need to calculate how much water my sump needs to pump back to the tank to
achieve 1" or 1.5" water line increase, and still have some water to cover
up the pump.


"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
link.net...
How high over the box does the water rise?

Wayne Sallee



TekCat wrote:
Exactly, I toyed with lowering overflow skim box below the tank's water
line. This created a lot more flow to the sump, and return area didn't
run dry, however this is not acceptable arangement ( sump won't take THAT
much water if pump fails or power goes down).

So far I have two options. First, redesign return area to be as large as
possible. Second is to make more "teeth" in the overflow surface skimmer
box. (or widen them up)

I'd like to explore first option to the fullest extent before I start
grinding teeth in the overwflow box.


"kim gross" wrote in message
...

Wayne Sallee wrote:

Because I don't think that is the true problem. Maybe the overflow lets
the water fluctuate more than he wants, but I think that the bigest
problem that he is having, is that the water volume in the sump is so
small that it does not give him adiquate room for that fluctuation.

Wayne Sallee


Charles Spitzer wrote:



Correct.

Depending on the size of the tank, if the water level raises 1/4 of an
inch it could be more than 1.5 gallons of water alone, let alone the
water in the pipes. 3 gallons is not much water, and most overflows
depending on the tooth arrangement can use up to 1/2 or even 3/4 of on
inch of water to build up before they are close to max flow, and if the
overflow needs 3/4 of on inch of water in a 72x18 tank, that would be
around 4 gallons of water, so the sump would run dry before the overflow
got to max flow rate..... An of course if he has a long pipe run with
large pipe there could be a gallon of water in the return pipe also.


Kim

"Charles Spitzer" wrote in message ...
i'm curious, why would increasing the size of the sump work? i would think
that since the pump is emptying it, eventually either the pump will empty
the sump and run dry, or the tank will overflow because not enough water is
coming out of it.

It is quite simple. The flow of water through the overflow
depends on the difference of water levels between the tank
and the overflow other side...
The bigger the difference the greater the flow.

At the begining, when you turn your pump on, the pump
pumps normaly fast but the overflow does not let the water
go fast enough... Over time, when the water in the tank
rises, the pressure build up on both sides of the overflow
syphon and the speed of water flowing through the overflow
increases until it will equalize with the pump output...

And now, if it takes more than 3 gallons to make up
the big enough water level difference on both sides
of the overflow then the sump will run dry before the
overflow will reach its maximum water output...

I would propose an experiment... :-)
Take a big bucket, like an empty Instant Ocean salt container.
Its volume is about 6 gallons. (the new style is smaller...)
Drop your submersible pump into the bucket, low on the
bottom and fill up the bucket with the salt mix (same
temperature, salnity to be mixed with your tank water).
Drop the hose from the overflow to the bucket as well...
Turn on the pump and see that your overflow is good enough :-)

All you need is a bigger sump. At least bigger pump
compartment. Your tank is simply too big for the sump
and the water in the tank does not rise fast enough
to fuel the overflow.

I have 2 ball valves on my tank 1 for intake and 1 for return i tweek
each to satisfy the flucuation.
----------------------------------------
Usenet Gateway provided by http://www.CaptiveReefing.com

Ok, I am building new sump! I have another 10G tank that would be
transformed into the sump.
Now, It is going to be two section sump: skimmer-return.

I'm assuming you have a reef tank. Reef tanks don't need a
wet dry, so I'm assuming you don't have a wet dry, but a
sump. Since all you need is a sump, I would get a bigger
tank for a sump, rather than try to hook up a secnd 10
gallon tank.

Wayne Sallee


TekCat wrote:
Ok, I am building new sump! I have another 10G tank that would be
transformed into the sump.
Now, It is going to be two section sump: skimmer-return.

"TekCat" wrote in message ...
Ok, I am building new sump! I have another 10G tank that
would be transformed into the sump.
Now, It is going to be two section sump: skimmer-return.

Use some experience people have building sumps before you...
If you put not enough baffles/bubble traps in the sump
the water falling down from the overflow will contain
enough air bubbles to get into the pump and create bubble
problem in your display tank.
I would recommend using as much space in your cabinet
for the sump as possible. You could have some sections
of your sump left empty for now and later convert them
into lighted refugium or algae filter etc...
Just browse internet for pages with sumps other people
build and collect ideas to make something usefull for you.

p.s.
I think I missed the end of the RO/DI filter story.
How did it end ? Do you have a working filter now ?
Are you satisfied with the seller support ? Would you
recommend this source of RO filter for other aquarists?

I prefer to use live rock rubble to get rid of
microbubbles, instead of baffels. It's so much more
beneficial.

Wayne Sallee


Pszemol wrote:
"TekCat" wrote in message
...

Ok, I am building new sump! I have another 10G tank that
would be transformed into the sump.
Now, It is going to be two section sump: skimmer-return.


Use some experience people have building sumps before you...
If you put not enough baffles/bubble traps in the sump
the water falling down from the overflow will contain
enough air bubbles to get into the pump and create bubble
problem in your display tank.
I would recommend using as much space in your cabinet
for the sump as possible. You could have some sections
of your sump left empty for now and later convert them
into lighted refugium or algae filter etc...
Just browse internet for pages with sumps other people
build and collect ideas to make something usefull for you.

p.s.
I think I missed the end of the RO/DI filter story.
How did it end ? Do you have a working filter now ?
Are you satisfied with the seller support ? Would you
recommend this source of RO filter for other aquarists?

I am looking at lots of sump designs,... unfortunately they are all too big
to fit it in my stand. I hate Wal-Mart ))) the stand is from them... it
divided into 2 sections, they are completely separated from each other, and
there is only a 10G tank would make in the section. So, I am stuck there
with 10G sump. Or maybe two tanks with some creative plumbing going around
the stand's poor design. One tank would have skimmer and return sections,
and another would be a fuge. I since the skimmer (AquaC Remora) is a hang
on, I'd estimate my skimmer section (with intake would) take 3 gallons, and
use remaining 7 for the return section.

Since it is the way I am most likely going to go (glass tank), my first
choice is acrylic for baffles, compartments, etc... What type of glue I need
to use to glue acrylic to glass?


P.S. Pszemol, The RO/DI saga came to the happy end. My membrane was the
problem, recently I got replacement. It works like a charm. I am very
happy though ) I estimated that with booster pump running I am getting
approximately 110GPD. AWESOME!!!! )) Thanks for your help.



"Pszemol" wrote in message
...
"TekCat" wrote in message
...
Ok, I am building new sump! I have another 10G tank that
would be transformed into the sump.
Now, It is going to be two section sump: skimmer-return.

Use some experience people have building sumps before you...
If you put not enough baffles/bubble traps in the sump
the water falling down from the overflow will contain
enough air bubbles to get into the pump and create bubble
problem in your display tank.
I would recommend using as much space in your cabinet
for the sump as possible. You could have some sections
of your sump left empty for now and later convert them
into lighted refugium or algae filter etc...
Just browse internet for pages with sumps other people
build and collect ideas to make something usefull for you.

p.s.
I think I missed the end of the RO/DI filter story.
How did it end ? Do you have a working filter now ?
Are you satisfied with the seller support ? Would you
recommend this source of RO filter for other aquarists?