Aquarium's Evolution

On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 00:35:36 -0500, "NetMax"
wrote:

I'm going to make a prediction that the next major leap in aquarium
design will be the canopy. I've watched technologies evolve, filters,
filter media, heaters, lighting technologies, feeding systems and water
parameter related equipment. Occasionally some of these technologies
have imbedded themselves into the canopy. For example, 8 years ago, an
Italian aquarium manufacturer had an auto-feeder built into a canopy with
T6 fluorescent lighting. They were a little ahead of their time.
Marineland has a line of tanks with their filters built into the canopy,
and the design has persisted, even with many drawbacks.

The canopy of the future will resemble what we have today, but will be
much bigger, possibly 8 to 12" thick. It will incorporate things like:

1. Filter system
- integrated biowheel, and sponge media which would be serviced through a
hatch in the canopy.
- backwash capability into overflows (see para. 7. below)

2. Storage
- nets, test kits etc

3. Heater
- why use precious aquarium real-estate for an unsightly heater

4. Food storage
- empty/mix all your dried fish foods, pellets, flakes, freeze-dried etc
into a compartment which is sealed when the hatch is closed.
- there is a screw-type feeder with rubber blades (to keep humidity away
from the food) operated/programmed from a keypad (integrated into the
canopy)
- level indicator (proximity switch) provides visual indicator of low
food levels (ie: by reversing light operation to get your attention)
- filters would automatically turn off for 10 minutes during feeding

5. Light System
- staged lighting, programmed from same keypad
- dawn/dusk lights, small halogen making a spot light effect, with
ripples shadowing the substrate, used to transition to/from nightfall and
daylight main lighting
- main lights (two CF groups, morning 1/2 on, mid-day all on, and evening
1/2 on again)
- programmed variability (cloudy periods) to reduce algae (currently done
with timers set to 1 hour off)
- twilight lighting (typically red or actinic) not programmed, set
manually, for those bottle of wine by the fire late evenings.

6. Ventilation & Cooling
- all that lighting will require that the ballasts are in a separate
vented area (separate from the air under the canopy)
- stainless steel tubing (with cooling fins) replaces conventional hoses,
allowing atmospheric cooling using a small fan triggered by a
thermocouple.

7. Water/Atmospheric control
- pH regulated through CO2 injected inside canopy (or skip to next item)
- low pH amber/tannic appearance through black-water concentrate pellets,
or processed/compressed leaf pellets
- kH regulated through baking soda pellets
- continuous monitoring of conductivity (TDS control)
- plumbed directly into home's DWV and cold water supply line (for
continuous water changes through a drip system)
- thermocouple (replaces thermometer), to activate dynamic cooling
(para.6) and reduce lighting to cool as required. (heater's thermocouple
would be a separate unit in-line with heating elements).
- backwash cycle which would pulse water in through the gravel, trapping
mulm in screens located near overflow pipes

8. Power distribution
- plug the canopy in and all peripherals connect to canopy's integrated
GFI protected power bar.

9. Water Purification option
- clear plastic bell fits on top of canopy (semi-integrated), housing
various bog/terrestrial plants whose roots would strip out any remaining
NO3 from non-planted tanks (silk plants would make a come back, but some
people will always want real plants).

10. Live Food option
- habitat section in canopy for growing small creatures (ie: white worms
in earth, feeding off decay from mechanical filtration stage, or mysis
shrimp hatchery etc). Hatchery occupants will randomly 'escape' into
main tank to be eaten.


Did I miss anything? Today, this equipment & electronics exist
separately, much of it in high volume consumer goods, except for:
a) the canopy itself (fairly straightforward mould with several options
and expansion panels to include odd sized aquarium dimensions).
b) the canopy horizontal filter (plastic moulds) utilizing twin
(redundancy) generic powerheads
c) the controller and fairly straightforward programming
d) integration of all the components

Alone, I could prototype this in about 6 years (it is that easy), so a
group of people could probably get one into pre-production testing in 12
months, and into production, 6 months after that.

The question is, would it sell. Would you buy one? Is it complete,
anything missing?


I think one of the biggest thing about putting filter system in the
conopy is the heat from the lighting system. Also, electricty and
water dose not like each other. There is a chance of short there if
something going wrong. The makers maybe liable in that case. Killing
the fish is one thing, killing the person care for the fish will be a
big liability. Even if you put the cooling system in the canopy that
solve the heating problem, you will have to deal with the addiditonal
noise created by the cooling system.

Do you have a situation where the water parameters must be monitored?

Yes, I'm a newbie who made the mistake of doing what the people at the
fish store told me, and so I've got to keep an eye on things daily
until the cycle is done (ammonia just hit 0 today! hooray! Nitrite
will follow soon, I'm sure (I added Bio-Spira on Monday, after learning
about it and how to properly apply it)).

But you're right, of course - I'm looking at it backwards, reactively
instead of proactively. It's quite clear that you've got a lot of
experience - to which I gratefully yield.

I'll resist temptations to buy an 8-channel pipetter (shouldn't be hard
at $300+) and continue reading 'til I don't feel the need for one. :-)

Thanks,

Liz

"Liz" wrote in message
oups.com...
Do you have a situation where the water parameters must be monitored?

Yes, I'm a newbie who made the mistake of doing what the people at the
fish store told me, and so I've got to keep an eye on things daily
until the cycle is done (ammonia just hit 0 today! hooray! Nitrite
will follow soon, I'm sure (I added Bio-Spira on Monday, after learning
about it and how to properly apply it)).

Congrats on the zero NH3. I've watched many people do jigs for this one.

But you're right, of course - I'm looking at it backwards, reactively
instead of proactively. It's quite clear that you've got a lot of
experience - to which I gratefully yield.

I'll resist temptations to buy an 8-channel pipetter (shouldn't be hard
at $300+) and continue reading 'til I don't feel the need for one. :-)

Well, I'm very happy if I've influenced you in something which saved you
money. I don't usually have *that* effect on people ;~).

Ammonia & nitrite are the first test kits to collect dust and expire from
lack of use or necessity. Depending on your source water and your
application (fish-load), your testing requirements might be quite
minimal. There are many folks here who are very qualified to advise you,
but I suspect that you'll want to get past your nitrite spike first. The
bad news is that NO2 spikes are longer than NH3, but I've heard very good
things about Bio-Spira. I hope that you can keep us advised on your
progress.
--
www.NetMax.tk


Thanks,

Liz

"fish lover" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 00:35:36 -0500, "NetMax"
wrote:

I'm going to make a prediction that the next major leap in aquarium
design will be the canopy. I've watched technologies evolve, filters,
filter media, heaters, lighting technologies, feeding systems and water
parameter related equipment. Occasionally some of these technologies
have imbedded themselves into the canopy. For example, 8 years ago, an
Italian aquarium manufacturer had an auto-feeder built into a canopy
with
T6 fluorescent lighting. They were a little ahead of their time.
Marineland has a line of tanks with their filters built into the
canopy,
and the design has persisted, even with many drawbacks.

The canopy of the future will resemble what we have today, but will be
much bigger, possibly 8 to 12" thick. It will incorporate things like:

1. Filter system
- integrated biowheel, and sponge media which would be serviced through
a
hatch in the canopy.
- backwash capability into overflows (see para. 7. below)

snip

5. Light System
- staged lighting, programmed from same keypad
- dawn/dusk lights, small halogen making a spot light effect, with
ripples shadowing the substrate, used to transition to/from nightfall
and
daylight main lighting
- main lights (two CF groups, morning 1/2 on, mid-day all on, and
evening
1/2 on again)
- programmed variability (cloudy periods) to reduce algae (currently
done
with timers set to 1 hour off)
- twilight lighting (typically red or actinic) not programmed, set
manually, for those bottle of wine by the fire late evenings.

6. Ventilation & Cooling
- all that lighting will require that the ballasts are in a separate
vented area (separate from the air under the canopy)
- stainless steel tubing (with cooling fins) replaces conventional
hoses,
allowing atmospheric cooling using a small fan triggered by a
thermocouple.

snip


I think one of the biggest thing about putting filter system in the
conopy is the heat from the lighting system. Also, electricty and
water dose not like each other. There is a chance of short there if
something going wrong. The makers maybe liable in that case. Killing
the fish is one thing, killing the person care for the fish will be a
big liability. Even if you put the cooling system in the canopy that
solve the heating problem, you will have to deal with the addiditonal
noise created by the cooling system.

Agreed, conventional fans would not waterproof inexpensively. The canopy
would need to exhaust its heat through a conventional chimney effect,
with low side air intakes and an exhaust at the top rear of the canopy.
Thanks fish lover, that gets rid of another annoying failure-prone
noise-generating moving part.

The filter's pump would be a conventional powerhead, so there is no
hazard there (underwater rated).

The heater could be a conventional submersible heater, or it would be
something similar if I was inclined to drag this through a UL-CSA
underwriter's approval.

For lights, hopefully something like the sealed T8(?) fluorescent lights
which use no barrier between them and the water (one less thing to clean
calcium deposits off of), but in a CF configuration. I think similar
enough applications already exist to be able to use one or modify it
slightly.
--
www.NetMax.tk

NetMax wrote:
"Liz" wrote in message
oups.com...

I think the temperature stuff would be no problem - electronic controls
are already available specifically for fish tanks and I would think one
of them will plug into your computer for the text messaging part of
things. I'm sure there's also non-fish-specific equipment that will do
this.

I've seen electronic pH meters as well.

For lighting, I'd bet there's something, but the easiest would be to
have something which senses a loss of power.... But then, how's it
gonna send you a message with no power? Perhaps program the UPS
software on your computer to send the text message when the UPS kicks
in (and again when it starts up again) - then you'd know your house
lost power. (This would require an "always on" internet connection -
make sure you've got good firewalls and anti-virus software in place.)

Don't look for stuff made for aquariums - it's not all gonna exist -
it's too expensive - look for stuff made for labs, plants and similar
industrial application - then pretty much everything will exist (for a
price). If you have specific questions, I'd be willing to run a few
past our metrology department (I work in a non-clinical testing lab -
in IT).

IMO, knowing if the power goes out, having redundant filters and
redundant heating would take care of the biggest concerns.

Liz

PS: Will post a separate reply to NetMax's idea later...



Typically (system backup design), ac power is used to hold a relay on a
dc circuit in an open state. During a municipal power loss, the relay
coil is de-energized and closes a dc path, which provides 12Vdc from a
marine/motorcycle battery to a dc powerhead (commonly sold as bilge
pumps) which is always in line with your filtration system.
Additionally, 12V airpumps are sold for this purpose as well. This
requires no controller IO access or special programming. It is logic
with pedals ;~).

Communicating the problem to your office phone or cell phone will usually
not be difficult if an auto-dialer is triggered on a landline. The call
is typically routed to a telco phone switch which utilizes banks of 48Vdc
batteries to provide loop current to phones (why some phones work during
a power failure). If there is a repeater in the path, or your office is
also having a power failure, then the reliability of the call is suspect.
Many office PBXs have partial service on their analog lines. ymmv, but
again, no controller IO access or special programming would be needed.

hth
I am tring to find a way to automate my tanks through a embedded
computer. I will share my reserch to you netmax my idea is to have
temp/waterlevel/fedding automated and other itemes displayed on a small
lcd whole unit will be aprox 1' x 1" x 4" without feeding and other
additives just the box.

NetMax wrote:
"Gill Passman" wrote in message
.. .

Liz wrote:

OK, got it. I would then go with redundant filters and a flow meter
(something that can detect current) that could be connected to
_something_ (auto-dialer, computer, whatever) to send you a message.

I'm sure we'll all be interested in anything you come up with.

Liz

PS: Hubbies are so useful sometimes, aren't they? G

Yep...I'll keep you all posted. I'm going to make this part of my tank
upgrade project which will be set up with redundancy - I've got to sell
my car before I'm allowed to order the new tank (it's surplus to
requirements)

Gill

PS and yep they are g - he's also great at getting the Fluval's
restarted after maintenance - I end up with blisters and arm ache


In regards to the overtemperature monitoring, I would guess that this
would not be too difficult to locate. Ideally, one of the digital
aquarium remote thermometers would have a high limit detector, which you
could IO to a simple automotive type 12V relay open circuiting a
defective heater. This may be more work that it's worth, but the
expression is, once bit twice shy ;~).

In regards to the water flow detector, I prefer to use multiple filters
for a simple low-tech approach to redundancy. If you really wanted a
flow detector, then they do exist. Coincidentally, the post below
appeared in another newsgroup just a few days ago. I will reprint it as
the fellow was looking for feedback.

cut % paste begins:===============


Hi there

My name is Denis Gibbs, and I am a Director of a British Company called
Before the Event Ltd, located at Cheltenham UK

I am a retired Marketing Director of a very large US Company, and I am
also
the inventor of a new water leak detector.
This was originally designed for washing machines etc. UK and US patents
have been issued, and there is enormous interest in the traditional
field.

However something quite interesting has arisen - with particular
applications to aquaria. We are about to bring to the market a device
which
can plug into the water input tube of a fish tank. Just cut the existing
tube and insert. This device - which has no moving parts - can monitor
whether water is present or not in the input tube If the pump fails, or
the
input tube becomes detached from the pump, then an alarm is given.
Special
electronics have been designed so that the battery - which operates the
electronics - only looks at the circuit once per minute, and then only
for
about 50 millisecs. This really does conserve the battery. Although the
present design covers an audible alarm, it would be possible to send an
alarm signal to a mobile phone.
Or do virtually anything with the electronic circuitry.

Additionally we have incorporated an anti-syphon gizmo, which opens the
inlet water pipe to air when then water flow ceases.
No more water all over the carpet.

I'm writing to you really just to get your reaction about the new
product.

Is such a device of interest to aquarium enthusiasts? Particularly in the
US. If so, we can probably make it available in you country.

I look forsward to hearing from you.

Regards

Take Care

Denis Gibbs

cut % paste ends:===============

Maybe you can contact him and offer to test it. Positive results could
then be relayed to the newsgroup.
hth
for overheating you cold interprate a small radiator unit say on sold
for the pc market that would at least be adding cooler water to the
point needed seeing as you already have pumps set up for filration just
plunbing design.

NetMax wrote:
"Zathoros" wrote in message
news:3updf.2274$Mr4.435@trnddc08...

Lighting alone is pretty expensive. Sounds like it would be very
expensive to make a hood with all these features. I could easily see it
costing way more than the tank it would go on. I know I am always
looking for a deal, I doubt I would buy something that was more
expensive than the alternatives. If you're aiming for the high end
crowd, perhaps they use canister filters etc that generally go below
the tank. There appears to be a lot of complicated stuff on your list,
you would need a lot of customer support that your competitors might
not.


True, I've outlined all the things that I could think of. Someone
smarter than me would need to do the market research and business case.
There is a very small % of the population which does not care what
something costs. Given the population of the planet, this tiny group is
actually quite numerous. I would try to launch into that niche, and once
the non-repeatable engineering and manufacturing costs were absorbed, the
unit cost would drop considerably.

There is an element of fantasy in all this. While I am an entrepreneur
and inventor, I'm already far too involved in other ventures to really
look seriously at this for many years, but having been a hobbyist for
over 30 years, the ideas have been percolating for some time (probably
goes a long way to explain my addiction to this hobby).


I would guess you'd make it for larger aquariums, my guess is the
larger you go the more non uniform the sizes of the aquariums will be.
Odd sizes, bow front, hexagon? I know the gap on the aquaclear 70
filter I bought was too small to fit over the rim on my 75 gallon
aquarium. Will aquarium dimensions be consistent enough for you to
market something that works well enough with everything to mass
produce. There's probably about 20 different sizes of aquariums at
petsmart and most of them have a specific canopy. My guess is you'd
have to sell it as a combo with specific aquariums, or get stores to do
so.


YES, this has been the MAJOR stumbling block. When I was in the trade, I
was watching the movement of tank dimension standards, and while some
progress was made (ie: elimination of the 16" deep tank), huge
standardization problems have been introduced with the metric and rimless
tanks, and dimensionally: bowfronts, wavefronts, octagon, stretch
octagon, square and pie shaped tanks.

Accordingly, if I was to proceed today, the mould would be modelled on
something like a 48" x 18" footprint with expansion plates to reach the
tank edges (which might be a few cms or sections to close a gap like a
bowfront).

If the design could be accomodated in that footprint, then I would then
incorporate it into a 60" x 18". Not by coincidence, I have 4 tanks here
which satisfy these dimensions, available for proto-typing stuff ;~).


It seems you have two items devoted to food storage and automated
feeding. I would guess most aquarium owners would enjoy feeding the
fish themselves. And have the fish get excited when they come up to the
tank. I would also rather leave my food in the container it came in
anyway. Though I suppose I do not buy food in bulk.


Having gained familiarity with automatic water change systems and
auto-feeders, I can say that I've found a lot of satisfaction in knowing
that they do their job without my having to think about it. The fish are
fed when I'm away on business or just working late, and they will still
eat whenever I get home (such as when I'm hand feeding them some frozen
treats). In my opinion, it's the sort of device which quickly integrates
itself into your life, after having used it for a while. Perhaps others
here can offer their experience with using auto-feeders. The biggest
problem which I've found with these units is the penetration of moisture
will adversely affect the operation and nutritional value. If these
points were addressed reliably, there wouldn't be much resistance, even
if you only used it to do the morning feeding when you are work-bound in
traffic.


What are the reasons heaters and filters are not integrated today? It
seems like a good idea, do heater elements burn out much more quickly
than the lifespan of your typical filter. Why not make a hob filter
with space for a heater component if that's the obstacle.


Eheim has long had integrated heaters in some canister filter models.
I've generally not heard bad things about them, other than being slightly
underpowered in some applications. If the heater uses a thermocouple and
solid state relays (no bimetal point contacts to arc), then the primary
component subject to wear is the heating element, from the thermal
expansion/contraction. It would not be very difficult to modify the ac
signal used to energise these elements so that they would not be subject
to the harsh extreme heat/cool cycle currently used. Electric stoves
already use this technology, by truncating the ac waveform going to the
elements. This makes lots of sense when working with 30A 230Vac into a
major household appliance, but as you can see from a stove's long MTBF,
the same could easily be applied to an aquarium heater. Imagine your
heaters working as long as your house stove (20-30 years?). The
technology has been around for decades.


I didn't see an air pump on your list.


Nope. An air pump is:
a source of vibration (complicating the canopy design tremendously to
prevent resonant frequencies from occurring)
a source of heat (which would need to be vented, but not allowing noise
to leave)
a source of moving parts (moving parts are much more prone to failure)
a source of exposed electronics (electrical hazard on a device which has
limitations on how well it can be electrically sealed)
a source of exposed metals known to corrode (now in a high humidity
application, recycling humid air through it)
Nope nope nope nope.

I suppose if the consumer demand was there, an air pump could be designed
to meet the requirements. Perhaps something like a Wankel rotary engine
type reciprocating piston made of UHMW parts. Don't get me started on
more designs though ;~).

Thanks for the feedback.
You are doing good business reserch right here and If you were to make a
business out of it i would sugest making a few proto types for difrent
common tank sizes and distribuit it out to diffrent main contributers to
the UG that you frequint ang let them give you your coments then you
cand eather sell it to companies like hegen or eheim or even market it
your self just don't forget to eather patent or copywright all your
notes so you don't get fu$%ed.

NetMax wrote:
"Liz" wrote in message
oups.com...

NetMax,

I like your thinking. Here are some random thoughts:


Now there's a scary thought, someone who likes my thinking ;~).


You mention the Eclipse tanks that have everything in the hood (in and
under is more accurate as the filter is just under the hood, not
actually a part of it). I have a 6g of these and I have to say, the
fact that the hood as a unit doesn't have a hinge at the back so that I
can open it up and get at the water (there's a trap door for the filter
which also works well for feeding) is a royal pain! If I want to do a
water change or need to trim a plant or something, I have to get my
husband to come and hold the hood. (There's a power cord coming out of
it, and a clever little cable router, which keeps me from taking the
hood entirely off and putting it elsewhere. Likely I'll pull the hood
power wire out of the cable organizer eventually so I can do things
without my husband holding the hood for me!)


This Italian tank I mentioned had a plastic hinge along the back and the
entire canopy lifted backwards and was held in place with a rod (just
like the hood of a car, when they stopped using springs). I don't know
if I could do the same thing, as there are portions which could not be
angled, but I'm very conscious of obstructions to working on my tank. I
like to build large full length structures for my tanks and even a
crossbrace is a nuisance. I'm currently building a removable stainless
steel crossbrace for my 120g.


In other words, I think things should be designed such that one person
can do things without needing four hands! And I think it's important
to be able to get the lid off - whether it's for adding/removing a
fish, moving decorations around, or whatever.


Agreed. I'm independant the same way. Something wrong if it takes more
than 2 hands to do it.


I also agree with what's been said about price - you're gonna be
hitting the high-end market - at least initially. A lot of goodies get
left at the store by those who can afford the necessaries, but not the
conveniences. Unless the hood (or system, I don't know that it all has
to be in/under the hood) is modular (as was already suggested) so that
folks could get the part(s) they wanted and not pay for what they don't
want / can't afford, the price is gonna be pretty high.


I don't have a profit motive right now. If I could cover my costs, I
would be very happy. Of course if the income from other projects dries
up, that will change everything, but I don't see this as generating much
profit, so if I get poor, I'll be doing something else in my retirement
years anyways.


I recently answered a survey and made comments to a group of college
students who, for an engineering project, were trying to automate
absolutely everything that could be automated around a tank. (I don't
think they're gonna go for my idea of having the system automatically
monitor (accurately, not those visual color indicators) ammonia,
nitrite and nitrate - cuz I think the system would have to include a
GC/LC/MS (or something) for that. g)

Here's a link to the thread:
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums...ad.php?t=60324

(I'm ParadoxLiz over there.)


I'm NetMax there, at least if I stop lurking ;~). Actually I have to
limit where I post or I will really need a life (probably too late
anyways). It's actually a quite regular occurance, that an engineering
class gets assigned a project like automating some aspect of aquaria
(convenient fixed environment to play with), but the designs are all
rooted in engineering capabilities instead of animal husbandry.

For example, they would find a way to detect NH levels rather than build
a system which would make NH detection superfulous, such as a a thin
layer of water above the lights acting as an algae scrubber. It would be
very difficult to ever have NH in a system which had an order of
magnitude more NH processing power than your bioload could generate.
Root cause analysis would result in a solution to prevent the problem
while the engineers were interfacing the NH detection circuitry to a
sending unit to do something ;~).


I like the concept - automate all the work - let machines do it and
when they run into a problem they can't fix, let them call you. But
there are a lot of people who like to get under the hood (home auto
mechanics analogy seems appropriate, or people who build their own
computers from scratch rather than buying it already put together) and
do everything themselves - modular might get them to buy some stuff
anyway. I also wonder if a system like this wouldn't actually turn the
users off toward fishies over time - kinda like having someone else
feed, water, walk, pick up after the dog - what's left after that?
You've got no time and emotion invested in your little fishies, so why
would you care about them - you may as well go down to the Chinese
place and watch their fishies for a while... g


While I would not argue this point, it's the magnitude which is affected,
and the way your efforts get re-directed. I watch my 66g as much as
always, but lights, feeders and much of the maintenance is automated. I
find that my energy gets redirected, admitedly sometimes to non-aquaria,
but also to wanting to learn more about some aspect, or making further
improvements. If I compare this to my other hobby (motorcycles), there
was a feeling that the true nature of the sport was being ruined by
fairings, stereo systems, heated seats and handlegrips, tent trailers,
floorboards, cruise control, volume control, self-adjusting shock
absorbers and electric starters (no more kickstarter). The sport is
still alive, albeit somewhat changed, and consumers have the option as to
what level of convenience and comfort they want to dial in when they make
their purchase.

When I worked in the trade, I'd approach prospective customers who would
be gawking at the tanks, and ask if they needed help. Frequently I was
told, that they would love to have a tank, "but they are too much work".
Aquariums will never be effortless (no matter what we automate), but I
think we have a good way to go before a better balance is achieved.


Anywho, I think there's a market, I'm not sure how big it is, I'd like
something that does all the tedious stuff for me (but that would have
to include testing the water, which I find the biggest pain (last night
I was on Fisher Scientific's web site pricing multi-channel pipetters
and looking for one that would measure milliliters instead of
microliters... g)). I also think there are some concerns, issues,
whatever you call thems that should be carefully considered.


The requirement to test a water parameter is directly related to that
water parameter changing or being expected to change. It's quite
possible to effortlessly manage a home aquarium for many years without
having to do any water tests. Do you have a situation where the water
parameters must be monitored?


FWIW,

Liz


Thanks for the feedback!
I agree I am an expert at nothing but have intrest in many things that
is why my projects are always hobby based and get more responce than
sone college undergrad whow should now what gets no responce but people
whow have degrease respond to me althugh I don't always know what they
are talking about

"Justice" wrote in message
news:Cmxdf.106716$y_1.10145@edtnps89...
NetMax wrote:
"Gill Passman" wrote in message
.. .

Liz wrote:

OK, got it. I would then go with redundant filters and a flow meter
(something that can detect current) that could be connected to
_something_ (auto-dialer, computer, whatever) to send you a message.

I'm sure we'll all be interested in anything you come up with.

Liz

PS: Hubbies are so useful sometimes, aren't they? G

Yep...I'll keep you all posted. I'm going to make this part of my tank
upgrade project which will be set up with redundancy - I've got to
sell my car before I'm allowed to order the new tank (it's surplus to
requirements)

Gill

PS and yep they are g - he's also great at getting the Fluval's
restarted after maintenance - I end up with blisters and arm ache


In regards to the overtemperature monitoring, I would guess that this
would not be too difficult to locate. Ideally, one of the digital
aquarium remote thermometers would have a high limit detector, which
you could IO to a simple automotive type 12V relay open circuiting a
defective heater. This may be more work that it's worth, but the
expression is, once bit twice shy ;~).

In regards to the water flow detector, I prefer to use multiple
filters for a simple low-tech approach to redundancy. If you really
wanted a flow detector, then they do exist. Coincidentally, the post
below appeared in another newsgroup just a few days ago. I will
reprint it as the fellow was looking for feedback.

cut % paste begins:===============


Hi there

My name is Denis Gibbs, and I am a Director of a British Company
called
Before the Event Ltd, located at Cheltenham UK

I am a retired Marketing Director of a very large US Company, and I am
also
the inventor of a new water leak detector.
This was originally designed for washing machines etc. UK and US
patents
have been issued, and there is enormous interest in the traditional
field.

However something quite interesting has arisen - with particular
applications to aquaria. We are about to bring to the market a device
which
can plug into the water input tube of a fish tank. Just cut the
existing
tube and insert. This device - which has no moving parts - can monitor
whether water is present or not in the input tube If the pump fails,
or the
input tube becomes detached from the pump, then an alarm is given.
Special
electronics have been designed so that the battery - which operates
the
electronics - only looks at the circuit once per minute, and then only
for
about 50 millisecs. This really does conserve the battery. Although
the
present design covers an audible alarm, it would be possible to send
an
alarm signal to a mobile phone.
Or do virtually anything with the electronic circuitry.

Additionally we have incorporated an anti-syphon gizmo, which opens
the
inlet water pipe to air when then water flow ceases.
No more water all over the carpet.

I'm writing to you really just to get your reaction about the new
product.

Is such a device of interest to aquarium enthusiasts? Particularly in
the
US. If so, we can probably make it available in you country.

I look forsward to hearing from you.

Regards

Take Care

Denis Gibbs

cut % paste ends:===============

Maybe you can contact him and offer to test it. Positive results
could then be relayed to the newsgroup.
hth
for overheating you cold interprate a small radiator unit say on sold
for the pc market that would at least be adding cooler water to the
point needed seeing as you already have pumps set up for filration just
plunbing design.

Sounds like a good idea. Living in Canada, I haven't been very motivated
to find ways to cool my tanks (Edmonton is probably similar ;~), but this
is a real problem for many folks to the south. It would be possible to
have a stainless steel finned radiator along the back of the tank. I'm
not sure if the convection cooling achieved would be very strong, but
with controlled lighting (switching off when the water is too warm) the
radiator would probably offset the heat added by the powerhead, so the
tank could be made to run at room temperature (that's already progress).

I could add a couple of hose connectors, so that buyers in really warm
climates could add a coil of stainless steel tubing (instead of the
finned radiator), which they would run through their fridge or freezer.
Then the system needs a tiny thermostat valve, but it should work fine.
--
www.NetMax.tk

On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 20:43:27 -0500, "NetMax"
wrote:

"fish lover" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 00:35:36 -0500, "NetMax"
wrote:

I'm going to make a prediction that the next major leap in aquarium
design will be the canopy. I've watched technologies evolve, filters,
filter media, heaters, lighting technologies, feeding systems and water
parameter related equipment. Occasionally some of these technologies
have imbedded themselves into the canopy. For example, 8 years ago, an
Italian aquarium manufacturer had an auto-feeder built into a canopy
with
T6 fluorescent lighting. They were a little ahead of their time.
Marineland has a line of tanks with their filters built into the
canopy,
and the design has persisted, even with many drawbacks.

The canopy of the future will resemble what we have today, but will be
much bigger, possibly 8 to 12" thick. It will incorporate things like:

1. Filter system
- integrated biowheel, and sponge media which would be serviced through
a
hatch in the canopy.
- backwash capability into overflows (see para. 7. below)

snip

5. Light System
- staged lighting, programmed from same keypad
- dawn/dusk lights, small halogen making a spot light effect, with
ripples shadowing the substrate, used to transition to/from nightfall
and
daylight main lighting
- main lights (two CF groups, morning 1/2 on, mid-day all on, and
evening
1/2 on again)
- programmed variability (cloudy periods) to reduce algae (currently
done
with timers set to 1 hour off)
- twilight lighting (typically red or actinic) not programmed, set
manually, for those bottle of wine by the fire late evenings.

6. Ventilation & Cooling
- all that lighting will require that the ballasts are in a separate
vented area (separate from the air under the canopy)
- stainless steel tubing (with cooling fins) replaces conventional
hoses,
allowing atmospheric cooling using a small fan triggered by a
thermocouple.

snip


I think one of the biggest thing about putting filter system in the
conopy is the heat from the lighting system. Also, electricty and
water dose not like each other. There is a chance of short there if
something going wrong. The makers maybe liable in that case. Killing
the fish is one thing, killing the person care for the fish will be a
big liability. Even if you put the cooling system in the canopy that
solve the heating problem, you will have to deal with the addiditonal
noise created by the cooling system.

Agreed, conventional fans would not waterproof inexpensively. The canopy
would need to exhaust its heat through a conventional chimney effect,
with low side air intakes and an exhaust at the top rear of the canopy.
Thanks fish lover, that gets rid of another annoying failure-prone
noise-generating moving part.

The filter's pump would be a conventional powerhead, so there is no
hazard there (underwater rated).

The heater could be a conventional submersible heater, or it would be
something similar if I was inclined to drag this through a UL-CSA
underwriter's approval.

For lights, hopefully something like the sealed T8(?) fluorescent lights
which use no barrier between them and the water (one less thing to clean
calcium deposits off of), but in a CF configuration. I think similar
enough applications already exist to be able to use one or modify it
slightly.


Few more things I can think of may help:
1. I would prefer to have the intake/return water pipes built into the
canopy. I hate to cut all kind of holes into my tank cover to fit in
the pipes.
2. As for the filter system, I would like to have something allows
easy change of media without stopping the filter system. That's one of
the things I hate about the cannister filter system. Also, you may
want to leave the filter media exposed to air so a pro ling power
outage will not kill all your good bacterias. I'm worred one of these
days my cannister filter systems will be dead after an hour or so of
power outage.
3. Since you are building the system anyway, you may want to add some
of the monitor devices such as digital temputure display (I just
bought one on ebay for $5 plus S&H). Really neat thing.
4. Your idea of having a small storage area for fish food and things
like that is eally good. I keep my fish food on top of my tank and
they just don't look good. Too much storage may not needed. Just a
small area to keep the dry food and things.
5. One thing you may want to keep in mind is to reduce any possible
sudden noise from all the moving parts of the canopy. Some fish are
sensitive to that. If you open a door to reach soemthing in the canopy
and it ratles, that may not be good for the fish. Adding a soft pad to
some of the doors may be a good idea. Slide doors or open from the
sides maybe better than the doors that open up and down.

Hey, maybe one of these days I can buy one from you!

Good luck.