Cory's sensitive to 4 year olds...

Hi,

I've got a male betta and two tiny cory's (corydoras pygmaeus I think
....photo at http:\\www.muddylittletaoist.org.uk\pigmycory2.jpg ) in a
22 litre tank. They have previously been very happy little guys
playing in the bubbles and scooting round checking out everywhere for
food but more recently they've started spending much more time just
sitting on the gravel and are quite skittish when anyone comes near the
tank. I've tried watching them after lights out but they seem the
same. The only time they seem busy is if I come into the room when
no-one's been there for a while and then they seem more normal. They
still play from time to time and have no signs of illness that I can
see but this has been going on for a few days now and I'm getting
concerned.

In terms of tank conditions we've got:

NH4 = 0ppm
NO2 = 0ppm
NO3 = 10 ppm and 25 ppm
Ph = 8.0
Temperature = 25 deg C or 77 deg F

I do a 25% waterchange weekly or biweekly depending on NO3 levels at
weekly test.

I'm feeding flake mainly with bloodworm and brineshrimp treats.

There are three things which might have caused this problem that I can
see. One is that I noticed that the corys seemed to be getting
precious little in the way of food because my betta will practically
take it all from my hand. So I got some catfish pellets and have been
putting 2 of those in every other day to top them up. I guess it's
possible that they're less active because they're just not hungry
anymore, so if I slow down with the pellets they may become more active
again?

The other thing is that my 4 year old ran his remote control car into
the side of the cabinet the fish tank sit's on. It made an almightly
thump and resulted in him getting banned from playing remote control
cars near the tank. It's really since then that the cory's have been
skittish. I think it scared them stupid at the time. Perhaps they are
sensitive, especially with fewer pals around they they might want and
take a long time to regain trust in their environment. The tank is
heavily planted and so does provide lots of little hiding places which
they use when they feel less safe.

The only other thing is that I changed one of my plants recently
because it wasn't doing too well in the lighting I have in this tank.
This disturbed the substrate allowing some of the mess from my
undergravel fertiliser balls to come up. I did a 30% water change
after just to be sure, the tank looked clear after that and the water
parameters didn't shift noticably. The fertilizer is nothing special
just trace elements and iron.

I was thinking that I might be able to fit another cory in this little
tank without pushing the stocking levels too much and I wondered if
that might help because I know cory's like to school and these pygmy
chaps like to school in their thousands in the wild.

Ho hum,

Anyone got an ideas?

Thanks!

muddy

On 12 Mar 2006 04:20:34 -0800, "muddyfox"
wrote:

Hi,

I've got a male betta and two tiny cory's (corydoras pygmaeus I think
...photo at http:\\www.muddylittletaoist.org.uk\pigmycory2.jpg ) in a
22 litre tank. They have previously been very happy little guys
playing in the bubbles and scooting round checking out everywhere for
food but more recently they've started spending much more time just
sitting on the gravel and are quite skittish when anyone comes near the
tank. I've tried watching them after lights out but they seem the
same. The only time they seem busy is if I come into the room when
no-one's been there for a while and then they seem more normal. They
still play from time to time and have no signs of illness that I can
see but this has been going on for a few days now and I'm getting
concerned.

In terms of tank conditions we've got:

NH4 = 0ppm
NO2 = 0ppm
NO3 = 10 ppm and 25 ppm
Ph = 8.0
Temperature = 25 deg C or 77 deg F

I do a 25% waterchange weekly or biweekly depending on NO3 levels at
weekly test.

I'm feeding flake mainly with bloodworm and brineshrimp treats.

There are three things which might have caused this problem that I can
see. One is that I noticed that the corys seemed to be getting
precious little in the way of food because my betta will practically
take it all from my hand. So I got some catfish pellets and have been
putting 2 of those in every other day to top them up. I guess it's
possible that they're less active because they're just not hungry
anymore, so if I slow down with the pellets they may become more active
again?

The other thing is that my 4 year old ran his remote control car into
the side of the cabinet the fish tank sit's on. It made an almightly
thump and resulted in him getting banned from playing remote control
cars near the tank. It's really since then that the cory's have been
skittish. I think it scared them stupid at the time. Perhaps they are
sensitive, especially with fewer pals around they they might want and
take a long time to regain trust in their environment. The tank is
heavily planted and so does provide lots of little hiding places which
they use when they feel less safe.

The only other thing is that I changed one of my plants recently
because it wasn't doing too well in the lighting I have in this tank.
This disturbed the substrate allowing some of the mess from my
undergravel fertiliser balls to come up. I did a 30% water change
after just to be sure, the tank looked clear after that and the water
parameters didn't shift noticably. The fertilizer is nothing special
just trace elements and iron.

I was thinking that I might be able to fit another cory in this little
tank without pushing the stocking levels too much and I wondered if
that might help because I know cory's like to school and these pygmy
chaps like to school in their thousands in the wild.

Ho hum,

Anyone got an ideas?

Thanks!

muddy

You've partly answered your own question. 2 corys makes for a boring
life. A third might help, but I consider 5 as a minimum. And your
tank, 22L = around 5 gallons, right?, does not provide nearly enough
play area. Corys like to swim - they like to race back and forth -
they like to playfully chase each other. They may be small in size,
but they do much better in a larger aquarium - 5 in a 10 gallon is my
minimum. I keep a cory only tank - 15 gallons - and expect they'll be
moving to a 20 Long one of these days. Your density of plants might be
too dense for field and track events. Make sure your plant arrangement
allows for a good stretch of open swimming area. Regarding food, they
love treats of bloodworms - I read an article recently where it was
discovered than when dissected, cory gut contents were 50% blood and
other worms in several different habitats in their homeland. So when
you feed bloodworms, give that betta a smack upside his head so the
corys will have a chance to get their fair share. As voracious as your
betta's appetite seems to be, there will always be some that falls
into the gravel. And I'm sure you know that whatever problems you
bring to rec aquaria etc will get at least one response advising you
to increase your water changes. 25% every one or two weeks is not
nearly enough, especially in a small tank. I suggest increasing to 50%
weekly, twice a week would be even better. And vacuum your gravel well
when doing water changes. Corys like soft water a little on the acid
side, but 7 is fine. You didn't mention your hardness, but pH 8 is
pretty high. However, if they were previously active in that high pH,
maybe they've acclimated to it.

-- Mister Gardener

Hi,

Thanks for that.

I can easily change the water twice a week and I always give the gravel
a good going over when I do that. I was doing it twice a week when I
first got the tank set up until a friend said I was doing it way too
much. My own feeling is that more would be better. I will try about
30 - 35% twice a week.

I don't think the pH should be too much of a problem since the LFS
suffers with the same mega hard water that we have here so they should
be acclimatised.

In terms of space and tank size there is plenty of room in the tank
for swimming from one end to the other unimpeded but I'll take on board
what you said. (My LFS said that these would be perfect for a 5G tank
too!) I'm in the process of setting up a 60-65 litre planted tank
which will have a lot more space for fun and frolicks. It may also be
more acidic since I'm thinking of using ADA Aquasoil which buffers the
water to about pH 6.5 ish. It won't have a bubble stream though
because that would dump my CO2 out of the water. If you think they'd
be happier in here with a few friends, say 5 in total, then I could
easily transfer them when the fishless cycle is finished.

Thanks again for the pointers,

muddy

PS: I don't think they've ever got even one bloodworm - the betta is
mad for them. Maybe I'll squish some up tight so they sink fast. (The
betta can't seem to get stuff that's landed on the gravel very easily -
upturned mouth makes it tricky I think.

WOW - just did a 50% waterchange to kickstart my new regieme and the
corys seem back to their normal selves again! I don't really
understand why this is since my NO3 is not too high, unless the test
strips are under reading. (I'm using a tetra test dipstick for nitrate
and AP wet test for pH, NH3/NH4+ and NO2.) Well, 35% twice weekly it
is. Might do slightly more for a week or so to get NO3 levels down,
assuming it's that causing the problem. Maybe testkits should be sold
with a + or - value to their results so we can see how accurate they
are.

Thanks,

muddy

"muddyfox" wrote in message
oups.com...
WOW - just did a 50% waterchange to kickstart my new regieme and the
corys seem back to their normal selves again! I don't really
understand why this is since my NO3 is not too high, unless the test
strips are under reading. (I'm using a tetra test dipstick for nitrate
and AP wet test for pH, NH3/NH4+ and NO2.) Well, 35% twice weekly it
is. Might do slightly more for a week or so to get NO3 levels down,
assuming it's that causing the problem. Maybe testkits should be sold
with a + or - value to their results so we can see how accurate they
are.

Thanks,

muddy


There's *** much *** more to water quality than we can measure with _all_
our test kits. Reminds me, time to go do my water changes.
--
www.NetMax.tk

muddyfox wrote:

Hi,

Thanks for that.

I can easily change the water twice a week and I always give the
gravel
a good going over when I do that. I was doing it twice a week when I
first got the tank set up until a friend said I was doing it way too
much. My own feeling is that more would be better. I will try about
30 - 35% twice a week.


Frequency and amount of water changes can be a contentious issue.

I can say that I have a heavily planted overstocked 10 gallon tank that
I change 10% weekly - occasionally 20% and I've had no problems with
water quality.

For an unplanted tank, your twice a week is probably the way to go, but
even there I'd only change 20%-25% unless you preheat the new water.

But remember, that's only an opinion - of which there is no lack in this
hobby :-).

Before I get responses decrying my overstocking, my larger tanks are
almost ready :-).

--
It's turtles, all the way down

On 12 Mar 2006 06:54:40 -0800, "muddyfox"
wrote:

WOW - just did a 50% waterchange to kickstart my new regieme and the
corys seem back to their normal selves again! I don't really
understand why this is since my NO3 is not too high, unless the test
strips are under reading. (I'm using a tetra test dipstick for nitrate
and AP wet test for pH, NH3/NH4+ and NO2.) Well, 35% twice weekly it
is. Might do slightly more for a week or so to get NO3 levels down,
assuming it's that causing the problem. Maybe testkits should be sold
with a + or - value to their results so we can see how accurate they
are.

Thanks,

muddy
When you changed their water you lowered the water level then raised
it again with a rain shower and changed the temperature slightly. They
think it's mating season. I'd be dancing too, if I were them. I
wouldn't worry about the nitrates as long as they stay 20 or under.
Now don't be surprised when the next writer says 40 or under. And the
one after that says zero or under. And if you think two corys are fun,
wait until you have 5 in that new 60 Litre.

-- Mister Gardener

On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:46:39 -0500, "NetMax"
wrote:

"muddyfox" wrote in message
roups.com...
WOW - just did a 50% waterchange to kickstart my new regieme and the
corys seem back to their normal selves again! I don't really
understand why this is since my NO3 is not too high, unless the test
strips are under reading. (I'm using a tetra test dipstick for nitrate
and AP wet test for pH, NH3/NH4+ and NO2.) Well, 35% twice weekly it
is. Might do slightly more for a week or so to get NO3 levels down,
assuming it's that causing the problem. Maybe testkits should be sold
with a + or - value to their results so we can see how accurate they
are.

Thanks,

muddy


There's *** much *** more to water quality than we can measure with _all_
our test kits. Reminds me, time to go do my water changes.

And a good part of the "much" that we can't measure with test kits can
be determined by looking at the fish and observing their behavior.
It's good to take some time and really watch your fish for a while
when they are new to your tanks, so that you have it fixed in your
mind how they're supposed to behave.

-- Mister Gardener

"Mr. Gardener" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:46:39 -0500, "NetMax"
wrote:

"muddyfox" wrote in message
groups.com...
WOW - just did a 50% waterchange to kickstart my new regieme and the
corys seem back to their normal selves again! I don't really
understand why this is since my NO3 is not too high, unless the test
strips are under reading. (I'm using a tetra test dipstick for
nitrate
and AP wet test for pH, NH3/NH4+ and NO2.) Well, 35% twice weekly it
is. Might do slightly more for a week or so to get NO3 levels down,
assuming it's that causing the problem. Maybe testkits should be
sold
with a + or - value to their results so we can see how accurate they
are.

Thanks,

muddy


There's *** much *** more to water quality than we can measure with
_all_
our test kits. Reminds me, time to go do my water changes.

And a good part of the "much" that we can't measure with test kits can
be determined by looking at the fish and observing their behavior.
It's good to take some time and really watch your fish for a while
when they are new to your tanks, so that you have it fixed in your
mind how they're supposed to behave.

-- Mister Gardener

Couldn't have said it better myself, thanks Mister Gardener!
--
www.NetMax.tk

I don't know if you have access to the
Hikari line of tropical fish foods, but they
have some varieties suitable for smaller
fish, like their Micro Pellets and Micro
Wafers (new). I have C. pygmaeus and
C. habrosus in a community tank and
typically add some Hikari daphnia and
tubifex worms. I figure the big fish can't
get everything in a planted tank. There's
plenty of flake food and larger sinking
wafers for them, as well as treats of
frozen bloodworms and brine shrimp.

I had 4 C. pygmaeus and 1 C. habrosus
in the tank before I redid the substrate.
Lost two of the pygmys, but bought
5 more and got 5 more habrosus. So far
they're all doing well on the diet.

I doubt your four year old caused that
much of a problem.

Gail