How can I tell if the LFS sold me DEAD Live Rock?

Simply put ... this live rock looks like it's had it's day, but I can't tell
what to look for because this is the first rock I have ever purchased? ...
Can somebody tell me what to look for or give me an email to send a couple
of high quality pics of my rock to you?


Caper

if it looks so bad, why did you buy it?


"Noah Body" wrote in message
...
Simply put ... this live rock looks like it's had it's day, but I can't
tell what to look for because this is the first rock I have ever
purchased? ... Can somebody tell me what to look for or give me an email
to send a couple of high quality pics of my rock to you?


Caper

What you look for in live rock,is porosity, and channels
that the fish and critters can go through, pretty
coralline algae, and other critters living on and in the
rock. Getting live rock is like getting a grab bag. You
will often find different things as time goes on that you
didn't know you had.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Noah Body wrote on 8/11/2006 4:36 PM:
Simply put ... this live rock looks like it's had it's day, but I can't tell
what to look for because this is the first rock I have ever purchased? ...
Can somebody tell me what to look for or give me an email to send a couple
of high quality pics of my rock to you?


Caper

Noah Body wrote:
Simply put ... this live rock looks like it's had it's day, but I can't tell
what to look for because this is the first rock I have ever purchased? ...

Hi Caper,

Time and patience are your main tools for evaluating the state of your
rock.

When it's pulled out of the ocean a chunk of 'live rock' is home to a
huge variety of flora and fauna; from bacteria to complex inverts
(worms, mollusks, etc.) and plants....

Then most of that stuff dies. In some cases, things can't deal with the
stress of shipping, sometimes it has to do with acclimation shock, but
probably most often it's simply starvation since neither you or the
natural processes in your tank can provide the variety of foods that
are available to these guys in the wild. This die-off is by no means a
totally bad thing since it provides raw materials for the cycling
process, thus removing the need to use 'throw-away' fish for that
purpose.

Eventually, the things that survived the trip from ocean to your tank
will start to grow. Depending on species you'll see some things bloom
quickly (i.e. diatoms or other small types of algae) but most of that
will also die back as they consume whatever nutrient the cycling
process has made available. In time you should start seeing more
persistent forms of life start to appear (coralline algae, various
worms, etc.) but this all takes time, time, and more time. People often
report finding new species a year or more after adding a piece of rock
to their tank.

The main thing you can do is monitor your various water parameters to
make sure things don't get too toxic as your tank cycles - and just
wait.

Festinationally yours,

Alex

Sorry did I hit a nerve...


"Noah Body" wrote in message
...
Do me a favor and don't reply to my posts Sandy. If your reply to me is
any indication of your attitude .... we all can do without. .... and read
people's posts more closely before throwing in your replies ......" this
live rock looks like it's had it's day, but I can't tell " ... is what I
wrote ... I Can't Tell, that is why I'm posting ... cuz I can't tell ....
furthermore .. there is only ONE place to purchase rock here ...... so I
don't have the luxury of running across the street to the "other" 12 pet
stores and getting pristine rock.

"Noah Body" wrote in message
...
Simply put ... what to look for because this is the first rock I have
ever purchased? ... Can somebody tell me what to look for or give me an
email to send a couple of high quality pics of my rock to you?


Caper

Thank you for your reply Alex. I understand what you mean by having patience
and waiting for the rock to mature. I have had freshwater tanks for years
and waiting for a tank to cycle is common practice here. I just didn't
want to go though this process, only to find out that my rock was dead in
the first place. I know that there will be "die off" of the live rock and
then the water parameters will normaize and I'll be able to add to it. I
just don't see any difference in colors on my rock at all, except for maybe
a couple of spots that are bluish. ( a good thing).
My two Mollies that are in the tank just today had another set of live
babies, so I'm assuming that's a good sign as far as water quality ... the
first ones were removed to lessen the bio-load on the tank, and these ones
are going in my hospital tank to be given away later.
Alex, would it be alright for me to send you a very high quality picture
of the rock to get your opinion? I am just remembering reading that I should
NOT have the lights on while cycling the tank, but I'm going to read up on
that after posting this message here. The reason I say this is I think there
is a light coating of algae forming on the live rock ... and for all I know
... this might be bad by not allowing the coraline to grow.
By the way, the tank has been running with mollies in it for three
months before introducing the live rock. I have been monitoring my water
parameters closely and everything seems fine, but it's hard to get real help
from the LFS because they refuse to accept that fact that a nano tank can be
set up and run with a "noobie" in charge, but I have this tank beside my
computer desk in the rec room where the whole family spends most of their
time... so I'm always on top of the tank checking and testing.
Anyway .. sending you or anybody who reads this a 5 meg dig pic would
put my mind at ease as to weather I have purchased good rock or not. One
thing about this rock is .. it was on sale for 30 % off and then the guy did
not add tax to it ... so I got 10.5 pounds of rock for $85.00 Canadian. I
know that I should have at least another 5 or more pounds in there .. but I
just didn't have that much to spend.

Caper

I forgot to add that there is not one sign of any life whatsoever on this
live rock .. nothing moves, no critters, worms, etc .. nothing .... and I
even have been looking at the rock with a magnifiying glass just to be
sure......I do notice some " mini tentacles" but I think they are showing up
now simply because my new, fresh crushed coral is so fine that there is a
"dusting" of coral that gets stirred up by the fish and this must be
sticking to the old, dead algae on the rock... I'm not sure .. but that's
what it looks like. Again .. sending someone a couple of pics would ease my
mind.

Caper

It takes awhile to actually get the rock "up and going". Everything looks
like it's dead but pretty soon you'll notice things on the rock that are
living. It just takes awhile. You can leave your light off to help with
the algae problem but it seems like no matter what you'll get brown algae
that will start taking over everything. You'll feel like your tank is a
mess than it goes away as quick as it came. It's part of the cycling. Just
takes alot of patience. You may not even notice any cycling in your tank.
I've put cured rocks in my tanks before and never noticed it going through
all the cycling process. Good-Luck

Susan
"Noah Body" wrote in message
...
I forgot to add that there is not one sign of any life whatsoever on this
live rock .. nothing moves, no critters, worms, etc .. nothing .... and I
even have been looking at the rock with a magnifiying glass just to be
sure......I do notice some " mini tentacles" but I think they are showing
up now simply because my new, fresh crushed coral is so fine that there is
a "dusting" of coral that gets stirred up by the fish and this must be
sticking to the old, dead algae on the rock... I'm not sure .. but that's
what it looks like. Again .. sending someone a couple of pics would ease my
mind.

Caper

Noah Body wrote:
would it be alright for me to send you a very high quality picture
of the rock to get your opinion?

Hi Caper,

Much as I'd like to help you evaluate your rock, I'm just about certain
that I can't. Two reasons:

1. However it looks to your eye is pretty much how it's going to look
photographically. Unless you can bring a microscope to bear on it any
life present would almost certainly be invisible at this point.

2. I'm really not all that knowledgeable about how tropical live rock
should look. My interest and any small expertise I might have center
around cold water aquariums and their inhabitants. The nature of the
cold water hobby is that virtually everything is collected rather than
purchased and, at least at present, most of that collecting is done
locally such that any specimens, rock, or sand can be moved from the
wild to the aquarium in an hour or two - totally different from the
tropical situation.

My personal opinion agrees with Susan and Wayne; your rock is, almost
without doubt, far more 'alive' than it looks right now.

You may be able to speed things up a bit by inoculating your sand bed
with some sort of detrivore kit in the faint hope of migration between
sand and rock. Here's a list of suppliers that was recently posted on
another forum (IOW: I haven't got a clue if any of these places is any
better than any other):
http://ipsf.com/

http://inlandaquatics.com/

http://billsreef.safeshopper.com/

http://www.essentiallivefeeds.com/

http://www.garf.org/




Optimistically yours,

Alex

Look at the post below this with the picture of teh Leather coral - does
your rock look like this?

If yes then your rock is perfectly healthy. If not take a picture and we
will have a look and let you have an oppinion...

~m

"Noah Body" wrote in message
...
Simply put ... this live rock looks like it's had it's day, but I can't
tell what to look for because this is the first rock I have ever
purchased? ... Can somebody tell me what to look for or give me an email
to send a couple of high quality pics of my rock to you?


Caper