Denitrators

Wayne. Follow closely. I will type slowly for you.


I (STOUTMAN) WROTE:
NO3 is not split into N2 and O2 it is broken down enzymatically into N2
and H2O.


PATTERSON WROTE THIS IN RESPONSE TO MY MESSAGE:
"No, it's not. The oxygen is removed by bacteria, releasing the nitrogen."


He is stating that my above statement is wrong by saying "NO, it's not",
therefore this means he does not agree with me that NO3- goes to N2 and H2O.

If Patterson believes that oxygen is removed by the enzyme and only N2 is
produced. What happens to the oxygen? Where do you/he think it goes? Do
you think it stays in the enzyme?

It is my contention that Patterson STILL thinks O2 is produced.

Ok, so your point is that he is saying no to your no :-)
And you are saying no to his no :-)

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Stoutman wrote on 9/16/2006 5:28 PM:
Wayne. Follow closely. I will type slowly for you.


I (STOUTMAN) WROTE:
NO3 is not split into N2 and O2 it is broken down enzymatically into N2
and H2O.


PATTERSON WROTE THIS IN RESPONSE TO MY MESSAGE:
"No, it's not. The oxygen is removed by bacteria, releasing the nitrogen."


He is stating that my above statement is wrong by saying "NO, it's not",
therefore this means he does not agree with me that NO3- goes to N2 and H2O.

If Patterson believes that oxygen is removed by the enzyme and only N2 is
produced. What happens to the oxygen? Where do you/he think it goes? Do
you think it stays in the enzyme?

It is my contention that Patterson STILL thinks O2 is produced.

Ok, so your point is that he is saying no to your no :-)
And you are saying no to his no :-)

No

Not exactly.

Stoutman wrote:

I will write this again for the umpteen time. This process is called
DENITRIFICATION. It is an enzymatic process that converts NO3- into H2O and
N2 (O2 is NOT produced).

And, once more, H2O is NOT produced. It is merely a carrier.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

Stoutman wrote:

If Patterson believes that oxygen is removed by the enzyme and only N2 is
produced. What happens to the oxygen? Where do you/he think it goes? Do
you think it stays in the enzyme?

Not enzyme. Bacteria. Yes, that's exactly what happens. The oxygen is consumed
by the bacteria.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

Stoutman wrote:

What do you think happens to the oxygen that is "removed" by the bacteria?

That's its food.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

Stoutman wrote:

Very good! When did I write water molecules were broken up?

You stated that hydrogen combines with oxygen from the NO3 to produce H2O. When
asked where the hydrogen comes from, you stated that the "enzymes" produce it
from water. The only way they could do that is to strip oxygten atoms off the
water molecules.

Still wrong. Water is produced here.

Not possible.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

"Stoutman" [email protected] wrote in message m...
Patterson wrote this very early on:"I don't know how they work, but the goal
is to turn the nitrates (NO3) into
gaseous nitrogen and oxygen."

Gaseous nitrogen and oxygen to 'me' mean O2 and N2.
Do you STILL think he is right?

Isn't it that the gaseous nitrogen is released as
not usable byproduct but the oxygen is fixed in the respiration
process and goes through the bacteria body later released
as water ?
Bacteria needs oxygen, but oxygen is not available in gaseous
form, so it uses it as a part of nitrates ion and is able to
tear apart the nitrates ion to grab oxygen for itself and
release not-needed nitrogen.

I think similar process is when there is a cyanobacteria
in a nitrates poor environment - they can get nitrogen
needed in biological processes to fix amino-acids from
gaseous form and other bacteria and plant need nitrates
or ammonia since they are unable to fix nitrogen from air.

"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message link.net...
Stoutman wrote on 9/16/2006 12:20 PM:
It is a VERY complex series of events.

Actually it's very simple. Just as we consume oxygen, so
do many types of bacteria. When oxygen levels get low,
bacteria start taking oxygen away from compounds in the
water such as nitrate, nitrite, sulfate, and many other
compounds.

or cyanobacteria consumes free nitrogen where other
algae or bacteria consume nitrates or ammonia.

If Patterson believes that oxygen is removed by the enzyme and only N2 is
produced. What happens to the oxygen? Where do you/he think it goes?
Do you think it stays in the enzyme?

Not enzyme. Bacteria. Yes, that's exactly what happens. The oxygen is
consumed by the bacteria.

First:
These denitrifying bacteria are anaerobic. They thrive in LOW oxygen
conditions. Anoxic conditions are required for their survival. This means
they do not need nor do they consume oxygen to survive. Why do you insist
that anaerobic bacteria involved in denitrification consume oxygen? Oxygen
is a TOXIN for most anaerobic bacteria. They do not produce nor consume
oxygen. Anaerobic bacteria can not even grow in the presence of oxygen.

Second:
Oxygen is NOT produced. The end result biproducts of nitrate metabolism by
denitrifying bacteria are N2 and H2O.

I am not guessing here.

nitrogen cycle:
http://www.reefscapes.net/articles/a...ogencycle.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denitrification