CO2 and anabantids

On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 00:11:38 -0700, southpaw wrote:

On 22 Sep 2006 09:27:21 -0700, "Tynk" wrote:


There's no point in letting the CO2 just bubble to the surface, you're
probably losing about 99% that way - no bubbles should actually reach
the surface, they should disolve before they get to the top.
Use a reactor or diffuser of some kind.

Is a diffuser necessary in a smaller tank? Right now I'm running the
Co2 through an airstone, and the Ph only dropped from 7.3-7.4 to
neutral. I'm thinking maneuvering the airstone closer to the filter
intake tomorrow might be a good idea. What are some DIY mini diffuser
designs?

Regardless of the size of your tank, whichever method you use, the
idea is to get all the CO2 disolved into the water, and to distribute
the dissolved CO2 evenly in the tank water. Ideally, there should not
be any CO2 bubbles breaking the surface of the water.

I use 2 Aqua Medic 500 reactors. I use the out output of my eheim 2217
cannister filter to drive 1 of them, the other is the AM500-M which
has a built-in powehead.

If you move the airstone close to the intake of your power filter so
that the bubbles enter the intake it should help breakup the bubbles
and diffuse them, do note though that the output of most power filters
are located at the top of the tank, you may want to consider turning
the spraybar output down towards the middle of the tank to help even
distribution of CO2. I have read that on occasion, a buildup of CO2
can cause a CO2-lock in the power filter (like a big bubble of CO2
around the impeller) which can cause the filter to fail.

I only use CO2 when the lights are on as plants do not use CO2 unless
there's enough light, it also give the fish a break from quite high
levels of CO2. I do note that a parrot fish that was given to me is
much less active when the pH ges close to 6, I'll proably swap him at
my LFS, the anglefish don't seem to mind.
I still loose a little CO2, but that's probably because I drive them
quite hard at around 8 bubbles/sec. This gets my pH down from around
7.2ish to 6.2ish within an hour of the lights coming on.
I have no experience of diffusers, but they are well regarded.
If you go to http://www.barrreport.com/forums/index.php?
Tom describes a DIY reactor he designed.
You'll also find just about everything you need to know about growing
plants and CO2.

Good luck
Pete

On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 11:53:01 +0100, Pete
wrote:

On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 00:11:38 -0700, southpaw wrote:

On 22 Sep 2006 09:27:21 -0700, "Tynk" wrote:


There's no point in letting the CO2 just bubble to the surface, you're
probably losing about 99% that way - no bubbles should actually reach
the surface, they should disolve before they get to the top.
Use a reactor or diffuser of some kind.

Is a diffuser necessary in a smaller tank? Right now I'm running the
Co2 through an airstone, and the Ph only dropped from 7.3-7.4 to
neutral. I'm thinking maneuvering the airstone closer to the filter
intake tomorrow might be a good idea. What are some DIY mini diffuser
designs?

Regardless of the size of your tank, whichever method you use, the
idea is to get all the CO2 disolved into the water, and to distribute
the dissolved CO2 evenly in the tank water. Ideally, there should not
be any CO2 bubbles breaking the surface of the water.

I use 2 Aqua Medic 500 reactors. I use the out output of my eheim 2217
cannister filter to drive 1 of them, the other is the AM500-M which
has a built-in powehead.

If you move the airstone close to the intake of your power filter so
that the bubbles enter the intake it should help breakup the bubbles
and diffuse them, do note though that the output of most power filters
are located at the top of the tank, you may want to consider turning
the spraybar output down towards the middle of the tank to help even
distribution of CO2. I have read that on occasion, a buildup of CO2
can cause a CO2-lock in the power filter (like a big bubble of CO2
around the impeller) which can cause the filter to fail.

I only use CO2 when the lights are on as plants do not use CO2 unless
there's enough light, it also give the fish a break from quite high
levels of CO2. I do note that a parrot fish that was given to me is
much less active when the pH ges close to 6, I'll proably swap him at
my LFS, the anglefish don't seem to mind.
I still loose a little CO2, but that's probably because I drive them
quite hard at around 8 bubbles/sec. This gets my pH down from around
7.2ish to 6.2ish within an hour of the lights coming on.
I have no experience of diffusers, but they are well regarded.
If you go to http://www.barrreport.com/forums/index.php?
Tom describes a DIY reactor he designed.
You'll also find just about everything you need to know about growing
plants and CO2.

Good luck
Pete

Interesting insights Pete. I moved the airstone under the filter
intake, and about every 30-40 seconds the output sends out a bunch of
small bubbles. Some hit the surface and break, but I'd say 30% is fine
enough to dissolve immediately, and another 25-30% gets caught under
some of the floating lotus leaves. There's a cheap diffuser for ya,
and its not even DIY! : )

I think turning off the CO2 at night makes sense also, and I think I
will start doing that. Although I have read the school that says 24/7
allows a concentration the plants can use for the morning, and
sidesteps possible ph swings. I take it you disagree here?

Thanks for the advice man.

Pete wrote:

I still loose a little CO2, but that's probably because I drive them
quite hard at around 8 bubbles/sec. This gets my pH down from around
7.2ish to 6.2ish within an hour of the lights coming on.

1pH? That's quite a CO2 loss. My tanks stay at the same level during the
night after the CO2 cuts out. I think that's because my plants produce
just enough CO2 to counterbalance the loss that occurs through surface
agitation. I have very little agitation happening at the water surface
though. How do you count 8 bubbles per second? My brain just don't work
that fast!

Nikki

Interesting insights Pete. I moved the airstone under the filter
intake, and about every 30-40 seconds the output sends out a bunch of
small bubbles. Some hit the surface and break, but I'd say 30% is fine
enough to dissolve immediately, and another 25-30% gets caught under
some of the floating lotus leaves. There's a cheap diffuser for ya,
and its not even DIY! : )

I think turning off the CO2 at night makes sense also, and I think I
will start doing that. Although I have read the school that says 24/7
allows a concentration the plants can use for the morning, and
sidesteps possible ph swings. I take it you disagree here?

Thanks for the advice man.

I used to run my CO2 24x7 then read several articles at The Barr
Report site that suggested not doing this (it gives the fish a break,
and the plants do not use CO2 when the lights are off). I tried it and
the plants are growing just as well, the fish do not appear to get
stressed by the pH swing and I save some CO2 - so that's my reasoning.

Best wishes
Pete

On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 23:49:45 +0100, Nikki Casali
wrote:

Pete wrote:

I still loose a little CO2, but that's probably because I drive them
quite hard at around 8 bubbles/sec. This gets my pH down from around
7.2ish to 6.2ish within an hour of the lights coming on.

1pH? That's quite a CO2 loss. My tanks stay at the same level during the
night after the CO2 cuts out. I think that's because my plants produce
just enough CO2 to counterbalance the loss that occurs through surface
agitation. I have very little agitation happening at the water surface
though. How do you count 8 bubbles per second? My brain just don't work
that fast!

Nikki

8 bubbles/sec is a guess, but I don't think I'm far off.
I use a wet/dry(bio) filter alongside my cannister filter and that
looses some CO2 overnight.
Tom Barr advised me to block off the breathing tube so it just acts as
a trickle filter. I've done this, but have to confess I haven't
checked what the pH swing is now.
I'll have a look when the lights come on later and post an update.

Best wishes
Pete

On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 23:49:45 +0100, Nikki Casali
wrote:

Pete wrote:

I still loose a little CO2, but that's probably because I drive them
quite hard at around 8 bubbles/sec. This gets my pH down from around
7.2ish to 6.2ish within an hour of the lights coming on.

1pH? That's quite a CO2 loss. My tanks stay at the same level during the
night after the CO2 cuts out. I think that's because my plants produce
just enough CO2 to counterbalance the loss that occurs through surface
agitation. I have very little agitation happening at the water surface
though. How do you count 8 bubbles per second? My brain just don't work
that fast!

Nikki
Just checked the pH prior to the lights coming on - it was 6.4, so
it's only dropping by about .3 during lights-out (no CO2)

Pete

On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 00:45:03 -0500, dc wrote
(in article ) :

southpaw wrote in
:

Thanks for the responses. Yeah I kind of figured that for a tank this
small CO2 of any kind is bordering on overkill. Bottom line, the

Consider Flourish Excel by Seachem as an alternative. It is an organic
carbon compound and substitutes for CO2 in photosynthesis. It will not
affect your pH and will not harm your fish if you dose appropriately. A
500 ml bottle should last you a good while and give your plants the boost
you're after.


Again, if you're not reaching the limit on light, Flourish won't help either.

-E

Update: 2L yeast reactor piped into a power filter and emitting a fine
bubble spray of C02 equals 3 inches of growth on an anacharis bunch,
almost 2 inches on some didiplus, and a red tiger lotus that has leaf
veins popping out like the Hulk and possible pearling (not quite sure
what that looks like, but I see bubbles on the leaf underside.) Now if
I can just get my nitrates down to the 5-10 ppm range, I will be one
happy fishkeeper.

Watching the corydoras doing their hoover act on the new growth is too
much fun. I'm realizing how dorky that sounds as I type it, but hey,
you people will understand. : )

Peace.