re.Koi Food

Hi, Ingrid,

I haven't talked to you for a long time. Nice to see your post.

Jim

On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 18:37:11 -0600, "Reel McKoi" wrote:

What does? What Sandy wrote? If so, prove her wrong. ~ jan
===================
I don't think anyone can prove her right or wrong. What works for one person
may not work too well for another under different conditions of pond size,
climate.... etc.

Why would a fish vet make something up, why would she put herself, her
professional reputation out there, by writing something erroneous? She has
more knowledge, personal & educational then all of us combine and no
agenda, other than to give instruction on what is best for koi.

In this case, it has nothing to do with what works for one may not work
well for another. That's always a given on how well one follows instruction
or how much common sense an individual has. It doesn't mean the science is
flawed, just the experimenter. ~ jan

On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 18:48:01 -0600, "Reel McKoi"
wrote:

Where is the research to back that up?

Like I said, you can google probably better than I. Go look for it. Sandy's
write up is good enough for me.

I'll wait until I see the research, who did the research, how many years it
ran, what climate was involved, the age of the fish, who paid for it and
which brands of feed were used in these supposed long running trials. The
pictures of the autopsies should also be interesting.

Like I said, prove her wrong. ~ jan

Jan,

I took your suggestion of Googling. I tried 'koi catfish food'

Interesting results:

-http://www.ponddoc.com/WhatsUpDoc/FishHealth/Fattening.html

-http://www.arborman.com/fishfood.htm

-http://www.lonestarkoi.com/Articles/vitamins.html

These 3 seem the best to me. They do spell out their details. Not
research, but evidently knowledgable. Should help our discussion.

Jim

http://www.ponddoc.com/WhatsUpDoc/Fi...Fattening.html

http://www.arborman.com/fishfood.htm

http://www.lonestarkoi.com/Articles/vitamins.html

These 3 seem the best to me. They do spell out their details. Not
research, but evidently knowledgable. Should help our discussion.
Jim

Thanks Jim, you're a far more better googler than I. :-) ~ jan

"~ jan" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 18:37:11 -0600, "Reel McKoi"
wrote:

What does? What Sandy wrote? If so, prove her wrong. ~ jan
===================
I don't think anyone can prove her right or wrong. What works for one
person
may not work too well for another under different conditions of pond size,
climate.... etc.

Why would a fish vet make something up, why would she put herself, her
professional reputation out there, by writing something erroneous?

What reason did she give for trout and catfish chow not being suitable for
pond koi that must have some fat and size to get them through zone 6 and
colder winters? I saw no mention of that. Or for adult koi living outdoors
where they supplement their diet with what ever enters the water? Also, why
would the researchers/Drs make up that HRT saved woman's bones and hearts
etc. when it clearly raised the breast cancer rate and killed them? What
about the tranquilizers that researchers/Dr's claimed were so good and safe
that had the depressed committing suicide and pulled from the market? Any
thinking reasoning person would want more than "just her word" for it.
After the so-called research I've read about, I have little faith in what
they claim. Now I want all the answers.....

She has
more knowledge, personal & educational then all of us combine and no
agenda, other than to give instruction on what is best for koi.

You still haven't told us what she's basing her "opinion" on. I want to
see what research she's done, under what conditions, who funded her
research, the age of the fish, the name brands she researched, where it was
done etc.

In this case, it has nothing to do with what works for one may not work
well for another.

Yes it worked well for the people who clued me in to the cheaper foods and
it works great for me.

That's always a given on how well one follows instruction
or how much common sense an individual has. It doesn't mean the science is
flawed, just the experimenter. ~ jan

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one until I have all the answers
regarding her research. See above. Also, there is no rational reason these
koi feeds should be so expensive. They contain no gold dust or magical
ingredients. It reminds me of the exact same antibiotic capsule the dog
owner pays the vet $3 for, we pay the pharmacist $5 for,.... and the farmer
only pays .50 for. Same drug from the same line made at the same
plant......
--
RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~ }(((((o

"~ jan" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 18:48:01 -0600, "Reel McKoi"
wrote:

Where is the research to back that up?

Like I said, you can google probably better than I. Go look for it.
Sandy's
write up is good enough for me.

I found nothing to answer my questions.

I'll wait until I see the research, who did the research, how many years
it
ran, what climate was involved, the age of the fish, who paid for it and
which brands of feed were used in these supposed long running trials. The
pictures of the autopsies should also be interesting.

Like I said, prove her wrong. ~ jan

It's not my place to prove her wrong when I can't even find the information
I want or would need on her research. She made the claim. It's her place to
prove herself right. Let her produce all the information to back her
claims. Meanwhile I'll go back to that worked so well before and we'll have
to agree to disagree on this one.

--
RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll free pond and fish Forum:
http://www.karlsforums.com/forums/fo...ay.php?fid=104
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~ }(((((o

"Phyllis and Jim" wrote in message
ups.com...
Jan,

Thanks for pursuing the article. Lots of good stuff in it.

She is very clear about not liking trout and catfish food. I am sorry
she does not discuss the deficiencies of it any further. I wonder if
they are they as simple as lacking vitamin C or bigger in the
composition of the food.

I don't know that I will move to more expensive food, but I have a
clear vet statement about not liking catfish food.

Now I need to find a supplier like the one that Roy has for cheap koi
food.
=========================
The cheapest koi food I found still runs $5 a lb. That adds up fast when
you have a lot of fish. I didn't see the benefits promised either. They ate
the same amount of the expensive feed as they did the cheaper feed. The
filters needed cleaning just as often. The algae was no worse or better.
The koi reached fall thinner than usual and had 4 months of fasting to
endure. The smallest ones already died. I wont repeat the same things
again.

The vet doesn't mention her reason for not liking the cheaper food and there
is no information on her research, what brands she used, under what
conditions etc. After being fooled by research results before, I want more
information than someone's word for something.
--
RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll free pond and fish Forum:
http://www.karlsforums.com/forums/fo...ay.php?fid=104
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~ }(((((o

"Phyllis and Jim" wrote in message
oups.com...
Jan,

I took your suggestion of Googling. I tried 'koi catfish food'

Just beware of any site that's SELLING foods or recommends you to a site
that sells koi/goldfish food. They have a vested interest in most cases.

The chow I use is protein 36% (porcine and fish meals)
Fat is 5%
Fiber 6%
Calcium .50 to 1.00%
Phos 0.90%
Sodium 0.01 to 0.05%

Corn is listed as 3rd.

This is the last bag I bought this fall when I saw they were going into
winter underweight. But then the temps dropped. The 20 lb. bag was about
$12.00. I have not seen the loss of color mentioned, or obesity in my fish.
Unfortunately no brand names are mentioned. All have a different formula I'm
sure.


Interesting results:

-http://www.ponddoc.com/WhatsUpDoc/FishHealth/Fattening.html

-http://www.arborman.com/fishfood.htm

-http://www.lonestarkoi.com/Articles/vitamins.html

These 3 seem the best to me. They do spell out their details. Not
research, but evidently knowledgable. Should help our discussion.

Jim

--
RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~ }(((((o

Phyllis and Jim wrote:
Jan,

I took your suggestion of Googling. I tried 'koi catfish food'

Interesting results:

-http://www.ponddoc.com/WhatsUpDoc/FishHealth/Fattening.html

-http://www.arborman.com/fishfood.htm

-http://www.lonestarkoi.com/Articles/vitamins.html

These 3 seem the best to me. They do spell out their details. Not
research, but evidently knowledgable. Should help our discussion.

Jim

Interesting articles Jim......I wonder if a google search would find any
articles backing the feeding of Catfish/Trout Chow to Koi or
Goldfish.....might take a look later in the interest of trying to get a
balanced picture

Gill