lethargic goldfish - new tank....

do NOT use sea salt for goldfish. get kosher salt with no additives, get the rock
salt they use for water softeners with no additives. it should be cheap. Ingrid

"EA" wrote:
- addition of sea salt (which looks suspiciously like normal sea salt,
but the price tag and picture of a fish on the pack tries to convince
me otherwise....)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?...s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

Hopefully I've mis-named it - it's called "aqua master - aquarium
salt: a natural multipurpose remedy for freshwater fish"

What do you think?


On Apr 14, 11:26 pm, wrote:
do NOT use sea salt for goldfish. get kosher salt with no additives, get the rock
salt they use for water softeners with no additives. it should be cheap. Ingrid

"EA" wrote:
- addition of sea salt (which looks suspiciously like normal sea salt,
but the price tag and picture of a fish on the pack tries to convince
me otherwise....)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List athttp://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up:http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?...w.drsolo.c om
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

"EA" wrote in message
oups.com...
Firstly, thanks SO much for all your advice - if only you worked at
our local pet store! The advice that we've been given by these people
has been well intentioned but, apparently, ill informed.


No problem at all


To complicate matters further, we spoke to a girl at the pet shop
tonight who said that the shop "often has a tank or two out of action
for quarantine" and that we may have purchased a sick fish. GAH. Thank
goodness these people only sell supplies and not other animals too!

So, we're following your advice:

- another partial waterchange (the second since my first post) -
including gravel vacuum and clean

Ok so ONLY clean filter if the flow is slowing down, and ideally ya don't
want to clean at all for first month or so if possible.
Let the tank get a bit scungy, don't worry too much about gravel vac's and
cleaning ornaments etc. Partial water changes are the way to remove waste
(it all disolves into the fish soup

- more "cycle" - the bacteria stuff (other posts in this and other
groups have rated it - am keeping my fingers crossed!)

Yep, but remember 'cycle' and other stuff only slows up the cycle a wee bit.
Maybe save ya a water change or 2..... but it's expensive for the
privilidge.
Used to cringe each time I was pressured to sell bacteria to customers.....
prefer to hand them a bit of cycled filter media, so much less long term
drama.
Anyway the good thing about bacteria that seed your tank by falling outta
air, coming outta fish guts etc is that it is 'LOCAL' bacteria, suited to
YOUR tank and conditions.
Bottled bacteria is bred in a lab for what they think is a 'normal' tank.
Thats why once you have bred them up in your filter
you should be very gentle cleaning it, only ever use a bucket of water drawn
from the aquarium.
The last thing ya want to do is have to grow them all again



- addition of ammo-lock (there has been some debate of the merits of
this product, but most people seem to think it's okay as it makes the
ammonia less toxic, but doesnt break the cycle)

Yea thats a strange one, maybe if your water was coming out of the tap with
lots of ammonia in it......
I think tho that a water change will work better than ammolock and it's a
lot cheaper too!!
I realise water changes aren't fun, but really a bottle of de-chlorinator
(water-ager) and water changes are all ya need here.... oh yea and patience
(heh heh sorry)

- addition of sea salt (which looks suspiciously like normal sea salt,
but the price tag and picture of a fish on the pack tries to convince
me otherwise....)

Yea what ya want to do is go buy a bag of swimming pool salt.
should be about (Australian) $6 or so for 20kg of the stuff.
Chuck it in the shed, hand it out to other fish keepers.... should still be
enuf to last ya forever!
It is pure salt and often repacked by lfs and sold on at 10,987% markup :-)
People ask me if it's safe.... well it's human grade mate and a pure
compound so me and a few years using say yes it is!
Usually use at about a tablespoon per 20L, just remember when ya water
change only add salt for the water you are changing.
I find writing down my salt doses helps prevent me overstocking it.
Add too much salt and it slows down the cycle (brackish tanks take forever!)
Adding more air will speed up bacteria breeding (so make sure water surface
is nice and disturbed)


- our ammonia levels (pre water change) were at 0.25, and the nitrite
was at the same level - although this is bad news for the fish, I
think this is good news because they cycle is under way?

Yes it means the cycle is happening,
with luck the ammonia will soon drop off to 0ppm and the nitrite will slowly
spike then fall away to 0ppm over next few weeks.
nitrite takes longer to go as bacteria that eat it take longer to breed up.
If fish are looking sluggish give them a partial water change, otherwise
feed very light and increase amount very slowly.
The occasional feed of some shelled frozen green peas keeps goldys chugging
alone and healthy inside.


- quarantine of sick fish (whose condition has deteriorated - he is
moving less, and lying on his side) - in half tank water, half tap,
treated with all above additives, et cetera

I would move it accross to 90% treated tapwater, but it's not sounding good
for him,
goldys are tough and can mostly recover but sounds like he has absorbed a
bit too much nitrite.
Losing 1 isn't too bad, lesson learnt anyway! but that said, good luck to
the fella!


- we've also lined up a new tank (approx 100L - which is 4 times the
size of the current tank) that we will get our hands on and start
"fishless cycling" soon (I may be back to get advice on that soon - if
you can tolerate any more annoying questions!)

Yep thats a great size tank, much better.
As to the fishless cycle, ya works well
but remember to try seed it with an existing aquariums filter bacteria,
really does speed it up nicely!


I hope I can save all the fish, I feel horrible that they are
suffering because of my ignorance!

Thanks again for all your help, we'd have been lost (and our fish
crook) without you!

Not a problem mate,
give yourself a pat on the back for going looking for the answers!
If I have learnt one thing about keeping pet fish.... it's that no one
person has all the answers.
Thats why ya gotta meet a few fishgeeks, and work out what the story is for
yaself.
Happy Easter peoples!

"swarvegorilla" wrote in message
u...

"EA" wrote in message
oups.com...
Firstly, thanks SO much for all your advice - if only you worked at
our local pet store! The advice that we've been given by these people
has been well intentioned but, apparently, ill informed.


No problem at all


To complicate matters further, we spoke to a girl at the pet shop
tonight who said that the shop "often has a tank or two out of action
for quarantine" and that we may have purchased a sick fish. GAH. Thank
goodness these people only sell supplies and not other animals too!

So, we're following your advice:

- another partial waterchange (the second since my first post) -
including gravel vacuum and clean

Ok so ONLY clean filter if the flow is slowing down, and ideally ya don't
want to clean at all for first month or so if possible.
Let the tank get a bit scungy, don't worry too much about gravel vac's and
cleaning ornaments etc. Partial water changes are the way to remove waste
(it all disolves into the fish soup

- more "cycle" - the bacteria stuff (other posts in this and other
groups have rated it - am keeping my fingers crossed!)

Yep, but remember 'cycle' and other stuff only slows up the cycle a wee
bit.
Maybe save ya a water change or 2..... but it's expensive for the
privilidge.



Ok so I meant to say 'speeds' up the cycle a bit.
dam dyslexia
next I'll be going to toga parties dressed as a goat







Used to cringe each time I was pressured to sell bacteria to
customers..... prefer to hand them a bit of cycled filter media, so much
less long term drama.
Anyway the good thing about bacteria that seed your tank by falling outta
air, coming outta fish guts etc is that it is 'LOCAL' bacteria, suited to
YOUR tank and conditions.
Bottled bacteria is bred in a lab for what they think is a 'normal' tank.
Thats why once you have bred them up in your filter
you should be very gentle cleaning it, only ever use a bucket of water
drawn from the aquarium.
The last thing ya want to do is have to grow them all again



- addition of ammo-lock (there has been some debate of the merits of
this product, but most people seem to think it's okay as it makes the
ammonia less toxic, but doesnt break the cycle)

Yea thats a strange one, maybe if your water was coming out of the tap
with lots of ammonia in it......
I think tho that a water change will work better than ammolock and it's a
lot cheaper too!!
I realise water changes aren't fun, but really a bottle of de-chlorinator
(water-ager) and water changes are all ya need here.... oh yea and
patience (heh heh sorry)

- addition of sea salt (which looks suspiciously like normal sea salt,
but the price tag and picture of a fish on the pack tries to convince
me otherwise....)

Yea what ya want to do is go buy a bag of swimming pool salt.
should be about (Australian) $6 or so for 20kg of the stuff.
Chuck it in the shed, hand it out to other fish keepers.... should still
be enuf to last ya forever!
It is pure salt and often repacked by lfs and sold on at 10,987% markup
:-)
People ask me if it's safe.... well it's human grade mate and a pure
compound so me and a few years using say yes it is!
Usually use at about a tablespoon per 20L, just remember when ya water
change only add salt for the water you are changing.
I find writing down my salt doses helps prevent me overstocking it.
Add too much salt and it slows down the cycle (brackish tanks take
forever!)
Adding more air will speed up bacteria breeding (so make sure water
surface is nice and disturbed)


- our ammonia levels (pre water change) were at 0.25, and the nitrite
was at the same level - although this is bad news for the fish, I
think this is good news because they cycle is under way?

Yes it means the cycle is happening,
with luck the ammonia will soon drop off to 0ppm and the nitrite will
slowly spike then fall away to 0ppm over next few weeks.
nitrite takes longer to go as bacteria that eat it take longer to breed
up.
If fish are looking sluggish give them a partial water change, otherwise
feed very light and increase amount very slowly.
The occasional feed of some shelled frozen green peas keeps goldys
chugging alone and healthy inside.


- quarantine of sick fish (whose condition has deteriorated - he is
moving less, and lying on his side) - in half tank water, half tap,
treated with all above additives, et cetera

I would move it accross to 90% treated tapwater, but it's not sounding
good for him,
goldys are tough and can mostly recover but sounds like he has absorbed a
bit too much nitrite.
Losing 1 isn't too bad, lesson learnt anyway! but that said, good luck to
the fella!


- we've also lined up a new tank (approx 100L - which is 4 times the
size of the current tank) that we will get our hands on and start
"fishless cycling" soon (I may be back to get advice on that soon - if
you can tolerate any more annoying questions!)

Yep thats a great size tank, much better.
As to the fishless cycle, ya works well
but remember to try seed it with an existing aquariums filter bacteria,
really does speed it up nicely!


I hope I can save all the fish, I feel horrible that they are
suffering because of my ignorance!

Thanks again for all your help, we'd have been lost (and our fish
crook) without you!

Not a problem mate,
give yourself a pat on the back for going looking for the answers!
If I have learnt one thing about keeping pet fish.... it's that no one
person has all the answers.
Thats why ya gotta meet a few fishgeeks, and work out what the story is
for yaself.
Happy Easter peoples!

The Cycle product is next to worthless, in my experience. ONLY BioSpira (a
refrigerated solution patented by Marineland) clearly works in the manner
intended.

"EA" wrote in message
oups.com...
Firstly, thanks SO much for all your advice - if only you worked at
our local pet store! The advice that we've been given by these people
has been well intentioned but, apparently, ill informed.

And even so, a chunk outta someones established filter (sponge or noodles
etc) usually kicks BioSpira's arse as far as a quick cycle is concerned.
Either way ya do it (seed the tank), the bacteria needs to be fed to breed
up. I usually just use fish food.... but theres a movement to use ammonia
as it's easier/cheaper/purer



"Telstar" wrote in message ...
The Cycle product is next to worthless, in my experience. ONLY BioSpira
(a refrigerated solution patented by Marineland) clearly works in the
manner intended.

"EA" wrote in message
oups.com...
Firstly, thanks SO much for all your advice - if only you worked at
our local pet store! The advice that we've been given by these people
has been well intentioned but, apparently, ill informed.

"swarvegorilla" wrote in message
u...
And even so, a chunk outta someones established filter (sponge or noodles
etc) usually kicks BioSpira's arse as far as a quick cycle is concerned.
Either way ya do it (seed the tank), the bacteria needs to be fed to breed
up. I usually just use fish food.... but theres a movement to use ammonia
as it's easier/cheaper/purer



"Telstar" wrote in message
...
The Cycle product is next to worthless, in my experience. ONLY BioSpira
(a refrigerated solution patented by Marineland) clearly works in the
manner intended.

"EA" wrote in message
oups.com...
Firstly, thanks SO much for all your advice - if only you worked at
our local pet store! The advice that we've been given by these people
has been well intentioned but, apparently, ill informed.




Agreed...I should have said ONLY (commercial source) et al.

"Telstar" wrote in message
...

"swarvegorilla" wrote in message
u...
And even so, a chunk outta someones established filter (sponge or noodles
etc) usually kicks BioSpira's arse as far as a quick cycle is concerned.
Either way ya do it (seed the tank), the bacteria needs to be fed to
breed up. I usually just use fish food.... but theres a movement to use
ammonia as it's easier/cheaper/purer



"Telstar" wrote in message
...
The Cycle product is next to worthless, in my experience. ONLY BioSpira
(a refrigerated solution patented by Marineland) clearly works in the
manner intended.

"EA" wrote in message
oups.com...
Firstly, thanks SO much for all your advice - if only you worked at
our local pet store! The advice that we've been given by these people
has been well intentioned but, apparently, ill informed.




Agreed...I should have said ONLY (commercial source) et al.



Well I hope I didn't sound like I was nit picking, was just adding to your
post.
I always found it kinda embarassing when me bosses used to pressure me to
push sales of bacteria in bottles and teabags etc.
Despite the risk of passing a disease onto a customer from high traffic
tanks..... nothing beats being able to wip out a nice cycled sponge and
swap it for one of the brand new ones in the customers new filter.
Bag the sponge up like a fishy, and send them home.
NEVER HAD DRAMA doing it that way......
the alternative.... explaining the nitrogen cycle and then walking them
thru the next few weeks of sick fish and daily water changes when they
ignore my advice used to stress me out.
This is such an easy hobby once you have your filters cycled.
It's just complicated explaining why its an easy hobby.

ahhh.. ok, just expensive. Ingrid

"EA" wrote:

Hopefully I've mis-named it - it's called "aqua master - aquarium
salt: a natural multipurpose remedy for freshwater fish"

What do you think?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?...s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

there is another one out there, cant remember who makes it. Ingrid

"Telstar" wrote:

The Cycle product is next to worthless, in my experience. ONLY BioSpira (a
refrigerated solution patented by Marineland) clearly works in the manner
intended.

"EA" wrote in message
roups.com...
Firstly, thanks SO much for all your advice - if only you worked at
our local pet store! The advice that we've been given by these people
has been well intentioned but, apparently, ill informed.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?...s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan