Neon Tetra problems already

On Sep 12, 12:11 pm, "Reel McKoi" wrote:
"Liisa Sarakontu" wrote in message

6...

"Reel McKoi" wrote in
:

Do you have a flow through system to keep nitrates below 20mg per liter?

Nope. Just 30 % or so weekly changes with clean (no nitrates or other
nitrogen stuff) tapwater, quite a lot of living plants and most important:
not too many fish and no overfeeding.

The tank is a 55g ... I recently added 8 Neons,
2 small pearl graumies, 5 platys and the two corys (one died).
There were several ottos, 2 clown plecos and a reg pleco in the tank.

Anything called "regular pleco" is far too big for a 55g.

I know this and when he gets another inch longer he'll have to go back to
the pet shop like the other one did. Right now he's not that large.

Other than that one fish, the tank doesn't sound overcrowded although it
is
a bad idea to add new fish to a tank with high nitrate level, and it is
also a bad idea to add lots of new fish at the same time as the bacteria
doesn't multiply that quickly and you can kill your fish with ammonia or
nitrite even if the tank is old (like yours is).

This is well known and good advice. The ammonia is at zero this morning. I
didn't check the other parameters.

Cory cats are schooling fish, and it is not right to keep them in groups
less than 5 individuals of same species.

I was starting with two because funds are limited. I'm retired with no
income at all and my husband is semi-retired.

Do a 50 % water change (not 90 %, it is not a good idea to change water
quality too much too quickly) and test nitrate immediately after that.
Wait
for 5 days or so and feed the tank normally and test nitrate again. If it
had gone up again, you have clearly too many fish and/or feed far too
much.
In that latter case it would be good to test for nitrite too, just in
case.
And test with a drop test, if possible, not with paper slips as they are
not that accurate.

The last test kit using drops was over $20. I'll see what the other store
has........
--

RM....
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

RM
If you decide to buy new or replacement test kits go with Seatest or
Fastest brand kits;........they atre put out by AP or Somehting like
that , who is a major player in aquatic products. They are about the
best without gong to a commerical grade kit which can cost big bucks.
For the most part most any kit is well within the pqarameters it is
spec'd at for fish keeping purposes, however the Fastetst and Seatest
kits initially cost a couple of bucks more, but the good thing is they
are all drop or powder type kits, and once you have the initial kit
you can buy refills for the kits and the price is like 60%..Overall
the initial kit is not any more costly than any other commonly
available kit, so you really save once you start with the refills.

"Tristie" wrote in message
ups.com...

RM
If you decide to buy new or replacement test kits go with Seatest or
Fastest brand kits;........they atre put out by AP or Somehting like
that , who is a major player in aquatic products. They are about the
best without gong to a commerical grade kit which can cost big bucks.
For the most part most any kit is well within the pqarameters it is
spec'd at for fish keeping purposes, however the Fastetst and Seatest
kits initially cost a couple of bucks more, but the good thing is they
are all drop or powder type kits, and once you have the initial kit
you can buy refills for the kits and the price is like 60%..Overall
the initial kit is not any more costly than any other commonly
available kit, so you really save once you start with the refills.
================
I'll take a look at them. I just recieved a new catalog today. Foster &
Smith. They're having their Red Tag sale.... :-)
--

RM....
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

"Tynk" wrote in message
oups.com...

Don't forget about checking *BigAlsonline.com*.
On some things I have ordered in the past, they were the cheapest of
several well known sites.
So it's always worth a glance to check their site as well.
=====================
I checked them out. They do have the cheapest prices! Unreal....

I bookmarked them as they'll be seeing some of my business. :-)
--

RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

"Tynk" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm so glad I mentioned them. Now you can spend what ya save on more
fish, hehe. = )~
==============================
Yeparoo! Pet Supermarket just got a new shipment of fish in today. They
were unpacking them when I called. I don't go the first day because the poor
little guys have got to be really stressed out. I'll go tomorrow and spend
some $$$$. :-)))

They're replacing the cory, plus I'm buying one or two more. I hope they
got in more pearls so I can get a nice male for the 2 girls. Then I'll go
from there..... I have to get off here and do the 1st water change on the
55g as the neon's are now eating fine.
--
RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

On Sep 14, 3:43 pm, "Reel McKoi" wrote:
"Tynk" wrote in message

oups.com... I'm so glad I mentioned them. Now you can spend what ya save on more
fish, hehe. = )~

==============================
Yeparoo! Pet Supermarket just got a new shipment of fish in today. They
were unpacking them when I called. I don't go the first day because the poor
little guys have got to be really stressed out. I'll go tomorrow and spend
some $$$$. :-)))

They're replacing the cory, plus I'm buying one or two more. I hope they
got in more pearls so I can get a nice male for the 2 girls. Then I'll go
from there..... I have to get off here and do the 1st water change on the
55g as the neon's are now eating fine.
--
RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

Interesting. The act of buying fish the day they arrive is a mixed
lot. I personally prefer to buy fish as soon as they arrive, if they
will dump out all fish except what I want and let my chosen fish stay
in the same bag in the shipped water. Hard to do with most FW fish as
they usually have a heap of them in the same bag, but with salt they
often more thannot pack one or two to a bag, so its not a problem
there.

I have them add a shot of amquel to neutralize any ammonia that rises
once the bag is opened, and carry them home. IO prefer to keep my fish
out of most LFS water if I can help it. My frieind who is a manager
at Petco will order me fish and when the fish gets ordered make a
request for "x" number or such and such to be packed
individually....... When fish arrive I am normaly there before the
truck delivers, so I just get my bagged fish and pay and
leave.........

Lots of folks only temp acclimate, I acclimate with water form tank as
well as temp, by use of a IV drip set over a period of 45 minutes to
one hour. I use bottom halfs of plastic juice containers to place fish
with bagged water in, and slowly dirp water form tank into the juice
container. Once its up a bit, I syphon a good portion of it out,
leaving just enough water to keep fish happy...........and repeat as
often as needed until a period of 45 minutes to an hour is up, net the
fish and place in the QT tank......Glad you got a replacement, or will
be getting a replacement. Good to hear the neons are eating as well,.

"Tristie" wrote in message
oups.com...
Interesting. The act of buying fish the day they arrive is a mixed
lot. I personally prefer to buy fish as soon as they arrive, if they
will dump out all fish except what I want and let my chosen fish stay
in the same bag in the shipped water. Hard to do with most FW fish as
they usually have a heap of them in the same bag, but with salt they
often more thannot pack one or two to a bag, so its not a problem
there.

- The bags are loaded with fish so I can't do that. It would be nice if
they shipped 2 to 4 in a bag. I'd take the whole bag before they're exposed
to the shop water.

I have them add a shot of amquel to neutralize any ammonia that rises
once the bag is opened, and carry them home. IO prefer to keep my fish
out of most LFS water if I can help it. My frieind who is a manager
at Petco will order me fish and when the fish gets ordered make a
request for "x" number or such and such to be packed
individually....... When fish arrive I am normaly there before the
truck delivers, so I just get my bagged fish and pay and
leave.........

- That's a good way to do it if you can. I try and get there the next
morning. By then those that came in in bad shape are already gone (dead and
removed) and the others more or less acclimated to the water in the store.

Lots of folks only temp acclimate, I acclimate with water form tank as
well as temp, by use of a IV drip set over a period of 45 minutes to
one hour. I use bottom halfs of plastic juice containers to place fish
with bagged water in, and slowly dirp water form tank into the juice
container. Once its up a bit, I syphon a good portion of it out,
leaving just enough water to keep fish happy...........and repeat as
often as needed until a period of 45 minutes to an hour is up, net the
fish and place in the QT tank.

- I use a 1g container. I keep adding a little water at a time over several
hours. When it's about 3/4s tank water I put them in the tank.

......Glad you got a replacement, or will
be getting a replacement. Good to hear the neons are eating as well,.

- So far so good but one neon vanished?!?!?!? Gone. I looked all over and
couldn't find a body anywhere, even on the floor. If it died the pleco must
have completely ate it. I removed the pleco to take back to the pet store
tomorrow. He's gotten too big (4 to 5") and there are already algae eaters
in the 55g. I did a 40% water change, checked the Nitrate and it's still
at 80. I vacuumed the gravel again also. Then I set up another quarantine
tank because I had to put my celestial eye GF in the quarantine tank. She
can't live outside because she's almost blind and can't compete for food.
--
RM....
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

On Sep 14, 8:42 pm, "Reel McKoi" wrote:
"Tristie" wrote in message

oups.com...
Interesting. The act of buying fish the day they arrive is a mixed
lot. I personally prefer to buy fish as soon as they arrive, if they
will dump out all fish except what I want and let my chosen fish stay
in the same bag in the shipped water. Hard to do with most FW fish as
they usually have a heap of them in the same bag, but with salt they
often more thannot pack one or two to a bag, so its not a problem
there.

- The bags are loaded with fish so I can't do that. It would be nice if
they shipped 2 to 4 in a bag. I'd take the whole bag before they're exposed
to the shop water.

I have them add a shot of amquel to neutralize any ammonia that rises
once the bag is opened, and carry them home. IO prefer to keep my fish
out of most LFS water if I can help it. My frieind who is a manager
at Petco will order me fish and when the fish gets ordered make a
request for "x" number or such and such to be packed
individually....... When fish arrive I am normaly there before the
truck delivers, so I just get my bagged fish and pay and
leave.........

- That's a good way to do it if you can. I try and get there the next
morning. By then those that came in in bad shape are already gone (dead and
removed) and the others more or less acclimated to the water in the store.

Lots of folks only temp acclimate, I acclimate with water form tank as
well as temp, by use of a IV drip set over a period of 45 minutes to
one hour. I use bottom halfs of plastic juice containers to place fish
with bagged water in, and slowly dirp water form tank into the juice
container. Once its up a bit, I syphon a good portion of it out,
leaving just enough water to keep fish happy...........and repeat as
often as needed until a period of 45 minutes to an hour is up, net the
fish and place in the QT tank.

- I use a 1g container. I keep adding a little water at a time over several
hours. When it's about 3/4s tank water I put them in the tank.

.....Glad you got a replacement, or will
be getting a replacement. Good to hear the neons are eating as well,.

- So far so good but one neon vanished?!?!?!? Gone. I looked all over and
couldn't find a body anywhere, even on the floor. If it died the pleco must
have completely ate it. I removed the pleco to take back to the pet store
tomorrow. He's gotten too big (4 to 5") and there are already algae eaters
in the 55g. I did a 40% water change, checked the Nitrate and it's still
at 80. I vacuumed the gravel again also. Then I set up another quarantine
tank because I had to put my celestial eye GF in the quarantine tank. She
can't live outside because she's almost blind and can't compete for food.
--
RM....
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

Hmmmmmmmmmm, you rasie still yet another interesting and often debated
acclimation process. Its also a hotly debated item as to weather or
not you can actually overdo acclimation, and further stress out a
fish. The majority seem to say it is, and depending on the fish or
item, usually a time limit of 45 minutes to an hour is sufficieint.
I speak mainly from saal****er enthusiasts, but I am sure things are
the same pretty well in FW too, plus it seems SW folks tend to go a
lot overboard since SW fish seem to go through a lot more stressfull
methods of capture, plus they usually cost a heap more than FW fish
do.......and they most always ensure more paramters are met than
fookls with FW fish do. I guess its allmy ywears with SW fish that
has me doing it the same for all FW like I do SW fish.

One easy way is put fish into container, out of bag. Take a contianer
of water equal to what is in the container the fish is in. Add one
third of that container of water to the container the fish is in, and
wait 5 minutes. Then add another 1/3 of that container of water to the
fish container.wait again 5 minutes..........and then add remaining
water to container with fish........wait 5 minutes.total elapsed time
is now 15 minutes since start of acclimation. Now pouor off 1/2 of
that fishes container of water, and once again fill up a container
with the same amount of water as in the fish container and repeat
process of every 5 minutes times 3...............and after that do it
one more time. Overall time will be 45 minutes..and fish shuold now be
able to be netted and placed into the tank.

I usually set an IV drip tube and let it drip into container until the
amount inthe container doubles in about 20 to 30 minutes time, empty
out half and repeat again, and then do it a third, then net fish and
place in the appropriate tank.

You can buy IV drip sets (no needles incuded) for under $6 at medical
supply places without a perscriiption, or I get them from a nurse
friend for free.......a suitable like item is easy and cheap to make
with a piece of the hard ridgid aiir line tube and a length of airline
tube. Use piece of ridgid tube and place in hot water to allow easy
kink free forming, and shape into a cane shape so it will hang over
tanks edge and extend intothe water approx 4 to 6 inches, and also a
few inches on the outside of the tank. Slip on a length of airline, of
approx 4 to 6 inches, and install a typical airline valve. The brass
or metal ones work best but most any will do. Then stick on another
length of airline that enables you to place a container for
acclimating in on a nearby stand or table etc, or what ever is
convienient. Now just start a syphon in the airline and adjust with
the air valve to get a couple of drips per minute flow. You can also
tie a single overhand knot in the airline and not use a valve and
either tighten uip or loosen the knot to adjust flow, but a valve is
so much easier to adjust. Now you have an acclimation tool that does
not require any attention for the entire process if a large enough
container is used to place fish in. I set a timer to remind me I have
fish acclimating as I have been known to get side tracked.

Does your LFS check for nitrate intheir water checks? If so I would
carry a sample in and bump their readings against yours. Sometimes
those kits even the drop or powder type do go crazy if they get hot or
near or over shelf life. I simply do not trust strip types.

"Tristie" wrote in message
oups.com...

Hmmmmmmmmmm, you rasie still yet another interesting and often debated
acclimation process. Its also a hotly debated item as to weather or
not you can actually overdo acclimation, and further stress out a
fish. The majority seem to say it is, and depending on the fish or
item, usually a time limit of 45 minutes to an hour is sufficieint.

- - True, but sometimes there's such a difference in PH and/or hardness or
TDS it takes longer. I've found, through sad experience, that fancy GF need
a slow acclamation. This is why I no longer buy from Petco in the city.
Our water is so different that the fish suffer stress just being acclimated.
If they're not acclimated s-l-o-w-l-y they're gasping at the surface, and
dead in 24 to 48 hours.

One easy way is put fish into container, out of bag. Take a contianer
of water equal to what is in the container the fish is in. Add one
third of that container of water to the container the fish is in, and
wait 5 minutes. Then add another 1/3 of that container of water to the
fish container.wait again 5 minutes..........and then add remaining
water to container with fish........wait 5 minutes.total elapsed time
is now 15 minutes since start of acclimation.
Now pouor off 1/2 of
that fishes container of water, and once again fill up a container
with the same amount of water as in the fish container and repeat
process of every 5 minutes times 3...............and after that do it
one more time. Overall time will be 45 minutes..and fish shuold now be
able to be netted and placed into the tank.

- - I know almost nothing about SW fish so wont comment on them. If the
water parameters aren't vastly different (FW) this will defiantly work. :-)
I always cover the non-translucent container to give them more of a feeling
of security. And airstone aerates them.

I usually set an IV drip tube and let it drip into container until the
amount inthe container doubles in about 20 to 30 minutes time, empty
out half and repeat again, and then do it a third, then net fish and
place in the appropriate tank.

- - That's a great idea if you can latch onto an IV drip.

You can buy IV drip sets (no needles incuded) for under $6 at medical
supply places without a perscriiption, or I get them from a nurse
friend for free.......a suitable like item is easy and cheap to make
with a piece of the hard ridgid aiir line tube and a length of airline
tube. Use piece of ridgid tube and place in hot water to allow easy
kink free forming, and shape into a cane shape so it will hang over
tanks edge and extend intothe water approx 4 to 6 inches, and also a
few inches on the outside of the tank. Slip on a length of airline, of
approx 4 to 6 inches, and install a typical airline valve. The brass
or metal ones work best but most any will do. Then stick on another
length of airline that enables you to place a container for
acclimating in on a nearby stand or table etc, or what ever is
convienient. Now just start a syphon in the airline and adjust with
the air valve to get a couple of drips per minute flow. You can also
tie a single overhand knot in the airline and not use a valve and
either tighten uip or loosen the knot to adjust flow, but a valve is
so much easier to adjust. Now you have an acclimation tool that does
not require any attention for the entire process if a large enough
container is used to place fish in. I set a timer to remind me I have
fish acclimating as I have been known to get side tracked.

- - What a geat idea!!!!!!!!! :-) I love it. I tried bending rigid
tubing one time after heating in hot water but it would kink. It refused to
make a nice U curve. Darn..... I can't remember what I was bending it for.

Does your LFS check for nitrate intheir water checks? If so I would
carry a sample in and bump their readings against yours. Sometimes
those kits even the drop or powder type do go crazy if they get hot or
near or over shelf life. I simply do not trust strip types.

- - I tested the water coming out of the faucet and it's zero on nitrates.
--

RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

On Sep 15, 7:24 pm, "Reel McKoi" wrote:
"Tristie" wrote in message

oups.com...

Hmmmmmmmmmm, you rasie still yet another interesting and often debated
acclimation process. Its also a hotly debated item as to weather or
not you can actually overdo acclimation, and further stress out a
fish. The majority seem to say it is, and depending on the fish or
item, usually a time limit of 45 minutes to an hour is sufficieint.

- - True, but sometimes there's such a difference in PH and/or hardness or
TDS it takes longer. I've found, through sad experience, that fancy GF need
a slow acclamation. This is why I no longer buy from Petco in the city.
Our water is so different that the fish suffer stress just being acclimated.
If they're not acclimated s-l-o-w-l-y they're gasping at the surface, and
dead in 24 to 48 hours.

One easy way is put fish into container, out of bag. Take a contianer
of water equal to what is in the container the fish is in. Add one
third of that container of water to the container the fish is in, and
wait 5 minutes. Then add another 1/3 of that container of water to the
fish container.wait again 5 minutes..........and then add remaining
water to container with fish........wait 5 minutes.total elapsed time
is now 15 minutes since start of acclimation.
Now pouor off 1/2 of
that fishes container of water, and once again fill up a container
with the same amount of water as in the fish container and repeat
process of every 5 minutes times 3...............and after that do it
one more time. Overall time will be 45 minutes..and fish shuold now be
able to be netted and placed into the tank.

- - I know almost nothing about SW fish so wont comment on them. If the
water parameters aren't vastly different (FW) this will defiantly work. :-)
I always cover the non-translucent container to give them more of a feeling
of security. And airstone aerates them.

I usually set an IV drip tube and let it drip into container until the
amount inthe container doubles in about 20 to 30 minutes time, empty
out half and repeat again, and then do it a third, then net fish and
place in the appropriate tank.

- - That's a great idea if you can latch onto an IV drip.

You can buy IV drip sets (no needles incuded) for under $6 at medical
supply places without a perscriiption, or I get them from a nurse
friend for free.......a suitable like item is easy and cheap to make
with a piece of the hard ridgid aiir line tube and a length of airline
tube. Use piece of ridgid tube and place in hot water to allow easy
kink free forming, and shape into a cane shape so it will hang over
tanks edge and extend intothe water approx 4 to 6 inches, and also a
few inches on the outside of the tank. Slip on a length of airline, of
approx 4 to 6 inches, and install a typical airline valve. The brass
or metal ones work best but most any will do. Then stick on another
length of airline that enables you to place a container for
acclimating in on a nearby stand or table etc, or what ever is
convienient. Now just start a syphon in the airline and adjust with
the air valve to get a couple of drips per minute flow. You can also
tie a single overhand knot in the airline and not use a valve and
either tighten uip or loosen the knot to adjust flow, but a valve is
so much easier to adjust. Now you have an acclimation tool that does
not require any attention for the entire process if a large enough
container is used to place fish in. I set a timer to remind me I have
fish acclimating as I have been known to get side tracked.

- - What a geat idea!!!!!!!!! :-) I love it. I tried bending rigid
tubing one time after heating in hot water but it would kink. It refused to
make a nice U curve. Darn..... I can't remember what I was bending it for.

Does your LFS check for nitrate intheir water checks? If so I would
carry a sample in and bump their readings against yours. Sometimes
those kits even the drop or powder type do go crazy if they get hot or
near or over shelf life. I simply do not trust strip types.

- - I tested the water coming out of the faucet and it's zero on nitrates.
--

RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

place end of ridgid airline tube in a pyrex measuring cup of bnoiling
hot water for a minute or two, and pull it out and lay over a form
such as a tall tapered beer glass or a rolling pin etc. It will just
about form itself. A little kink in the bend is not gonna hurt
anything, and it does best if yu do not try to bend it into to sharp a
radius unless yu havea form made to support the sides of the tube to
keep it from kinking. It should easily bend into a 1" radius which
gives approx 2" between each leg which is more than sufficient to
place over any aquariums top edge. I never aereate any fish in the
acclimating container, as they are continually getting an influx of
fresh water. I also keep the area shaded or dimly lit as well. No real
big difference in SW or FW, other than the water they swim in, the
principals are still the same......but SW fish certianly do not like
aeration by way of an airstone, thats why yu never really see
airstones used in SW setups. Corals etc do not tolerate that type of
aeration either, but that is neither here or there with fish and
acclimating them., since 99% of the LFS simply do nothing more than
temp acclimate bty floating the bag until they get around to dumping
them in the tanks......Just as a little bit of info. Shrimp etc are
much harder to acclimate, yet with a drip acclimation as such they do
very well. When a single cleaner shrimp costs $30 you certainly do
not take chances, so drip acclimation works very well. Hmmmmmmmmmm.$30
for a single shrimp.but you can get a ton of shrimp for a [party of 2
at Red Lobster for that amount and have money left! Tell me fish
keepers are not quite wrapped tight! ;-)

"Tristie" wrote in message
ups.com...
place end of ridgid airline tube in a pyrex measuring cup of bnoiling
hot water for a minute or two, and pull it out and lay over a form
such as a tall tapered beer glass or a rolling pin etc. It will just
about form itself. A little kink in the bend is not gonna hurt
anything, ........

- - Will try this next time. :-)

and it does best if yu do not try to bend it into to sharp a
radius unless yu havea form made to support the sides of the tube to
keep it from kinking. It should easily bend into a 1" radius which
gives approx 2" between each leg which is more than sufficient to
place over any aquariums top edge. I never aereate any fish in the
acclimating container, as they are continually getting an influx of
fresh water. I also keep the area shaded or dimly lit as well. No real
big difference in SW or FW, other than the water they swim in, the
principals are still the same......but SW fish certianly do not like
aeration by way of an airstone, thats why yu never really see
airstones used in SW setups. Corals etc do not tolerate that type of
aeration either, but that is neither here or there with fish and
acclimating them., since 99% of the LFS simply do nothing more than
temp acclimate bty floating the bag until they get around to dumping
them in the tanks......Just as a little bit of info. Shrimp etc are
much harder to acclimate, yet with a drip acclimation as such they do
very well. When a single cleaner shrimp costs $30 you certainly do
not take chances, so drip acclimation works very well. Hmmmmmmmmmm.$30
for a single shrimp.but you can get a ton of shrimp for a [party of 2
at Red Lobster for that amount and have money left! Tell me fish
keepers are not quite wrapped tight! ;-)

- - You got that right. We're not only loosely wrapped but our elevators
don't reach the top floor, we're two peas short of a casserole, we're not
the sharpest knife in the draw.... $30 for one shrimp? Only if I won a
lottery or some rich relative leaves me in their will. :-D
--

RM....
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
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