Reminder, cycling?

Hi, fairly experinced fish keeper here but reestablishing a 70gT tank after
6.5 years in storage. It's been ages since I had to start one over fresh.
I recall the process but not the time factor. No need for immediate answer,
the tank gets here in 4 days but we plan to fil it on the back porch to make
sure it's still watertight, and leave it there for a week. Then, we bring
it in and fill and start the process.

We normally start with just fresh water, gravel, and LFS plants and the
pump. I've had bad experiences with getting tank water from LFS places.
Then, after a week or so we add a molly nd leave it be. I seem to recall 3
weeks? Has to be a week after it clouds up then clears. There is a biota
bottle we used once and it worked well to get things going.

It's more of a 'remind me' than a teaching of the basics. Bet you folks are
happy to see that for a change!
xxcarol

Cshenk wrote:
Hi, fairly experinced fish keeper here but reestablishing a 70gT tank
after
6.5 years in storage. It's been ages since I had to start one over
fresh. I recall the process but not the time factor. No need for
immediate answer, the tank gets here in 4 days but we plan to fil it
on the back porch to make sure it's still watertight, and leave it
there for a week. Then, we bring it in and fill and start the
process.

We normally start with just fresh water, gravel, and LFS plants and
the pump. I've had bad experiences with getting tank water from LFS
places. Then, after a week or so we add a molly nd leave it be. I
seem to recall 3 weeks? Has to be a week after it clouds up then
clears. There is a biota bottle we used once and it worked well to
get things going.

It's more of a 'remind me' than a teaching of the basics. Bet you
folks are happy to see that for a change!
xxcarol

My recommendation would be to get a test kit (I use the Aquarium
Pharmaceuticals Freshwater Master Test Kit) and use it religiously.
Opinions are very mixed on the use of starter cultures such as Cycle and I'm
not sure if they really help, but I'm using Cycle while cycling the tank I
have slated to house a betta.

I'm also a big fan of fishless cycling so as to avoid putting the fish under
the stress of ammonia and nitrite poisoning. See details he
http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_fishless.php
http://malawicichlids.com/mw01017.htm

It can take a month or more, so be patient.

--
David L. Burkhead "Dum Vivimus Vivamus"
"While we live, let us live."
My webcomic Cold Servings
http://www.coldservings.com -- Back from hiatus!
Updates Wednesdays

The OP was apparently cycling with fish (something I ended up doing when I
started with the goldfish because I didn't know any better when I started)
but the Betta tank I am prepping is being put through fishless cycling.


BTW, in addition to the Cycle, I stuck a used filter element from the
Goldfish tank in there to get things started. With my other tank, the
cycling process "hung" the longest on the nitrite portion so the nitrobacter
may actually be a good thing from my perspective.

Currently, I've got the tank to the point where I can dose it with ammonia
to 8 ppm and have it drop to zero within two days. The nitrites, however,
hang a lot longer.

I've about to leave on a business trip (I'll be giving the Goldfish a fairly
large water change and a good gravel vacuum before I leave since I don't
think my wife is up to doing that kind of maintenance--feeding is more her
speed) but I figure when I get back the new tank should be ready to go.

--
David L. Burkhead "Dum Vivimus Vivamus"
"While we live, let us live."
My webcomic Cold Servings
http://www.coldservings.com -- Back from hiatus!
Updates Wednesdays


"Tynk" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Oct 16, 6:35?am, "David L. Burkhead" wrote:
Cshenk wrote:
Hi, fairly experinced fish keeper here but reestablishing a 70gT tank
after
6.5 years in storage. It's been ages since I had to start one over
fresh. I recall the process but not the time factor. No need for
immediate answer, the tank gets here in 4 days but we plan to fil it
on the back porch to make sure it's still watertight, and leave it
there for a week. Then, we bring it in and fill and start the
process.

We normally start with just fresh water, gravel, and LFS plants and
the pump. I've had bad experiences with getting tank water from LFS
places. Then, after a week or so we add a molly nd leave it be. I
seem to recall 3 weeks? Has to be a week after it clouds up then
clears. There is a biota bottle we used once and it worked well to
get things going.

It's more of a 'remind me' than a teaching of the basics. Bet you
folks are happy to see that for a change!
xxcarol

My recommendation would be to get a test kit (I use the Aquarium
Pharmaceuticals Freshwater Master Test Kit) and use it religiously.
Opinions are very mixed on the use of starter cultures such as Cycle and
I'm
not sure if they really help, but I'm using Cycle while cycling the tank
I
have slated to house a betta.

I'm also a big fan of fishless cycling so as to avoid putting the fish
under
the stress of ammonia and nitrite poisoning. See details
hehttp://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_...lawicichlids.c
om/mw01017.htm

It can take a month or more, so be patient.

--
David L. Burkhead "Dum Vivimus Vivamus"
"While we live, let us live."
My webcomic Cold Servingshttp://www.coldservings.com-- Back from hiatus!
Updates Wednesdays- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The product Cycle is a waste of your money, and time.
It has the wrong type of bacteria in it.
If you're using this on a brand new set up *with* fish in it, then you
are cycling with fish.
Cycle has a later stage bacteria in it, not the first stage (which is
what is needed).
The only bacteria starter product so far that has the proper type is
made by Marineland - BioSpira.
Cycle has Nitrobacter bacteria and you need Nitrospira bacteria to
start with.

We have anew product available in the Uk now called Bactinnettes ( I believe
from Germany) which i was very sceptical about. I am a very experinced fish
keeper and have several established tank. I set up a new one 5 weeks ago now
and placed 2 large orandas in it immediately. At the very first sign of
ammonia I added the bactinettes and within 6 hours ammonia was 0 and I had
nitrates showing.5 weeks on and I still have 0 ammonia and nitrites and
nitrates around 5-10. I've been astonished by how well it worked!!!
Mel.

"Tynk" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Oct 15, 8:33?pm, "Cshenk" wrote:
Hi, fairly experinced fish keeper here but reestablishing a 70gT tank
after
6.5 years in storage. It's been ages since I had to start one over
fresh.
I recall the process but not the time factor. No need for immediate
answer,
the tank gets here in 4 days but we plan to fil it on the back porch to
make
sure it's still watertight, and leave it there for a week. Then, we
bring
it in and fill and start the process.

We normally start with just fresh water, gravel, and LFS plants and the
pump. I've had bad experiences with getting tank water from LFS places.
Then, after a week or so we add a molly nd leave it be. I seem to recall
3
weeks? Has to be a week after it clouds up then clears. There is a
biota
bottle we used once and it worked well to get things going.

It's more of a 'remind me' than a teaching of the basics. Bet you folks
are
happy to see that for a change!
xxcarol

Hi there.
Getting tank water from a pet shop is really a bad idea.
If the idea in getting it was that you would be cycling your tank with
it, it didn't.
The nitrifying bacteria are stuck like to every surface inside the
tank, filter, gravel, plants, decor...everything *except* the water.
It used to be thought that the bacteria also were in the water column
just floating about. They aren't.
It was also once thought that adding the mulm from old dirty gravel is
good, or squeezing out a dirty filter pad into a newly set up tank
would cycle it too. All bunk. You're just adding crud, that's all. No
benificial bacteria.

Since you're getting back into the hobby, there have been some
"bacteria starters" that have become common and are pushed by
employees. Cycle, Stress Zyme, BioZyme, etc...all do *not* have the
correct start up bacteria in them.
They have a later stage bacteria that shows up (depending on the
brand) wither middle or end stage cycling.
The first stage bacteria in the cycling process are nitrospira
bacteria. As far as I know, the only product so far with this
nitrospira bacteria is BioSpira, made by Marineland.
I have personally used many of the products listed above myself.
None except BioSpira worked.
I'm a long time hobbyists and let me tell you the terror I had the
first time I used BioSpira on a large tank.
I had used it before on a few smaller tanks, but nothing like a fully
stocked 75g.
My 75g was fully cycled in 24 hours of being set up, filled with new
water, new gravel, new plants (plastic then), and all fish transfered
(angelfish and female bettas, assorted bottom feeders) the same day.
It was like it never happened. There was no crash, the ammonia spike,
nothing.
Then, a few years later I changed the gravel completely and used Bio
Spira again.
Again, nothing was noticed.....and that's fantastic!
Of course all normal water changes, and proper maintenance was being
done.
So if you choose to use a bacteria starter, find BioSpira or forget
about it.
The product needs to be kept refrigerated (Not frozen! It kills the
bacteria and makes the product useless).
It can't be left at room temp either, or it'll die.
I once had a problem with spoiled BioSpira I got at a pet shop. It
turned out the employee stocking it put it out on the shef next to the
other starter products and it had been there over night.
When he found it was supposed to be refrigerated, he just stuck it in
there and thought it would be fine. = / Duh. It wasn't.
It was all chunky and brown looking, instead of looking like cloudy
water.
If you have any friends with healthy fish tanks, you can seed the tank
with a stocking full of their gravel and hang it in the tank.
You can also do a fishless cycling wich uses household ammonia. If you
do this one, make sure you get *plain* ammonia (usually a generic
brand) without any scents or additives.
Cycling *with* fish, the usual of the past, isn't necessary anymore as
there are better ways to cycle a tank.
Fish do suffer effects when used for cycling. The degree varies of
course and some hobbyists would think their fish appear to have no ill
effects from it. However, usually they have scarred gill tissue from
ammonia burns. Not something the average hobbyist is going to see.
Welcome back too!

"Tynk" wrote in message
...
Since you're getting back into the hobby, there have been some

Never really left it ;-) Just didnt have my big tank and got the Sasebo
mini-tank from a friend who was transferring. That one was already cycled.

If you have any friends with healthy fish tanks, you can seed the tank
with a stocking full of their gravel and hang it in the tank.

Done that to start off another tank in my house. It works well.

Fish do suffer effects when used for cycling. The degree varies of
course and some hobbyists would think their fish appear to have no ill
effects from it. However, usually they have scarred gill tissue from
ammonia burns. Not something the average hobbyist is going to see.

Naw, but if you use the right tye (you actually pull them out when the water
starts to cloud and put them in another tank) you don't get that effect. I
agree, that would be bad.

Keep in mind that if I'm right on what I have stored, I have 3 tanks
arriving. Start one, then a week later start the next, then when the water
clouds from the 1st one, shift fish to the second and start it. By the time
the 2nd one clouds, you can either shift the fish to the 3rd tank, and start
it, or chances are the frst one is ready (move them back) and you can start
the 3rd one off from the first one without any fish needed.

Welcome back too!

Thanks! Feels good to be home at last.
xxcarol

The Bactinnettes is around £5 a pack and each pack treats 100 litres of tank
water.
Mel.

"Tynk" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Oct 16, 2:06?pm, "Mel" wrote:
We have anew product available in the Uk now called Bactinnettes ( I
believe
from Germany) which i was very sceptical about. I am a very experinced
fish
keeper and have several established tank. I set up a new one 5 weeks ago
now
and placed 2 large orandas in it immediately. At the very first sign of
ammonia I added the bactinettes and within 6 hours ammonia was 0 and I
had
nitrates showing.5 weeks on and I still have 0 ammonia and nitrites and
nitrates around 5-10. I've been astonished by how well it worked!!!
Mel.

"Tynk" wrote in message

ups.com...



On Oct 15, 8:33?pm, "Cshenk" wrote:
Hi, fairly experinced fish keeper here but reestablishing a 70gT tank
after
6.5 years in storage. It's been ages since I had to start one over
fresh.
I recall the process but not the time factor. No need for immediate
answer,
the tank gets here in 4 days but we plan to fil it on the back porch
to
make
sure it's still watertight, and leave it there for a week. Then, we
bring
it in and fill and start the process.

We normally start with just fresh water, gravel, and LFS plants and
the
pump. I've had bad experiences with getting tank water from LFS
places.
Then, after a week or so we add a molly nd leave it be. I seem to
recall
3
weeks? Has to be a week after it clouds up then clears. There is a
biota
bottle we used once and it worked well to get things going.

It's more of a 'remind me' than a teaching of the basics. Bet you
folks
are
happy to see that for a change!
xxcarol

Hi there.
Getting tank water from a pet shop is really a bad idea.
If the idea in getting it was that you would be cycling your tank with
it, it didn't.
The nitrifying bacteria are stuck like to every surface inside the
tank, filter, gravel, plants, decor...everything *except* the water.
It used to be thought that the bacteria also were in the water column
just floating about. They aren't.
It was also once thought that adding the mulm from old dirty gravel is
good, or squeezing out a dirty filter pad into a newly set up tank
would cycle it too. All bunk. You're just adding crud, that's all. No
benificial bacteria.

Since you're getting back into the hobby, there have been some
"bacteria starters" that have become common and are pushed by
employees. Cycle, Stress Zyme, BioZyme, etc...all do *not* have the
correct start up bacteria in them.
They have a later stage bacteria that shows up (depending on the
brand) wither middle or end stage cycling.
The first stage bacteria in the cycling process are nitrospira
bacteria. As far as I know, the only product so far with this
nitrospira bacteria is BioSpira, made by Marineland.
I have personally used many of the products listed above myself.
None except BioSpira worked.
I'm a long time hobbyists and let me tell you the terror I had the
first time I used BioSpira on a large tank.
I had used it before on a few smaller tanks, but nothing like a fully
stocked 75g.
My 75g was fully cycled in 24 hours of being set up, filled with new
water, new gravel, new plants (plastic then), and all fish transfered
(angelfish and female bettas, assorted bottom feeders) the same day.
It was like it never happened. There was no crash, the ammonia spike,
nothing.
Then, a few years later I changed the gravel completely and used Bio
Spira again.
Again, nothing was noticed.....and that's fantastic!
Of course all normal water changes, and proper maintenance was being
done.
So if you choose to use a bacteria starter, find BioSpira or forget
about it.
The product needs to be kept refrigerated (Not frozen! It kills the
bacteria and makes the product useless).
It can't be left at room temp either, or it'll die.
I once had a problem with spoiled BioSpira I got at a pet shop. It
turned out the employee stocking it put it out on the shef next to the
other starter products and it had been there over night.
When he found it was supposed to be refrigerated, he just stuck it in
there and thought it would be fine. = / Duh. It wasn't.
It was all chunky and brown looking, instead of looking like cloudy
water.
If you have any friends with healthy fish tanks, you can seed the tank
with a stocking full of their gravel and hang it in the tank.
You can also do a fishless cycling wich uses household ammonia. If you
do this one, make sure you get *plain* ammonia (usually a generic
brand) without any scents or additives.
Cycling *with* fish, the usual of the past, isn't necessary anymore as
there are better ways to cycle a tank.
Fish do suffer effects when used for cycling. The degree varies of
course and some hobbyists would think their fish appear to have no ill
effects from it. However, usually they have scarred gill tissue from
ammonia burns. Not something the average hobbyist is going to see.
Welcome back too!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Very cool!
I hope more companies come out with the proper bacteria type in them,
because then the price would go down.
BioSpira is on the expensive side.

rather than getting the RIGHT kind of ammonia and getting the RIGHT amount in the
tank, a pinch of Hikari Gold fish food for a small tank up to a tablespoon in a 75
gallon can be tossed into the tank, the heat set to 82oF and plenty of aeration. In
3 days or so watch the ammonia. If no ammonia is seen add more food.
or, try any fish food that causes an ammonia spike.
Ingrid

"Mel" wrote in message
k...
We have anew product available in the Uk now called Bactinnettes ( I
believe from Germany) which i was very sceptical about. I am a very
experinced fish keeper and have several established tank. I set up a new
one 5 weeks ago now and placed 2 large orandas in it immediately. At the
very first sign of ammonia I added the bactinettes and within 6 hours
ammonia was 0 and I had nitrates showing.5 weeks on and I still have 0
ammonia and nitrites and nitrates around 5-10. I've been astonished by how
well it worked!!!
Mel.


There is a reason BioSpira is refrigerated. Read the articles. If this is
dry, it is most certainly not stage 1 BioSpira.

It is refrigerated and has a very short shelf life.As I said before it works
brilliantly and my tank is proof.
Mel,.

"Alpha" wrote in message
...

"Mel" wrote in message
k...
We have anew product available in the Uk now called Bactinnettes ( I
believe from Germany) which i was very sceptical about. I am a very
experinced fish keeper and have several established tank. I set up a new
one 5 weeks ago now and placed 2 large orandas in it immediately. At the
very first sign of ammonia I added the bactinettes and within 6 hours
ammonia was 0 and I had nitrates showing.5 weeks on and I still have 0
ammonia and nitrites and nitrates around 5-10. I've been astonished by
how well it worked!!!
Mel.


There is a reason BioSpira is refrigerated. Read the articles. If this
is dry, it is most certainly not stage 1 BioSpira.

Havent been able to find it in Norfolk VA area yet.


"Mel" wrote in message
.uk...
It is refrigerated and has a very short shelf life.As I said before it
works brilliantly and my tank is proof.
Mel,.

"Alpha" wrote in message
...

"Mel" wrote in message
k...
We have anew product available in the Uk now called Bactinnettes ( I
believe from Germany) which i was very sceptical about. I am a very
experinced fish keeper and have several established tank. I set up a new
one 5 weeks ago now and placed 2 large orandas in it immediately. At the
very first sign of ammonia I added the bactinettes and within 6 hours
ammonia was 0 and I had nitrates showing.5 weeks on and I still have 0
ammonia and nitrites and nitrates around 5-10. I've been astonished by
how well it worked!!!
Mel.


There is a reason BioSpira is refrigerated. Read the articles. If this
is dry, it is most certainly not stage 1 BioSpira.