RM...........here are some links to some good sites that have the proper bulbs

"AquariumFatasies" wrote in message
...

The so called devils algae or black algae normally only covers plant
leaves or filter media..........it is usually a very dark green or
black in color algae. HP method I described in other pst wil kill this
stuff but the key is keeping it gone and thats gonna take good water
parameters, proper lights and sufficieint current flow.

* This is another issue. I have to add more current. I thought of that
also. All I have are the Aquaclears at one end of these 55g tanks. I need to
replace the air-pump and stones. I also have powerheads but they always get
clogged with plant debris in these tanks so I removed them. They're not
made to go on tubes so I can't hook sponges on them.

If its a cyano type algae often called red slime or black slime then
an anti-biotic dose will knock this stuff out as its just like ther
blue green algae that is often seen with a new tank when it gets
cloudy looking. Maracin (sp?) will work as will Red Slime Remover,
which is normally sold for sal****er tanks but works well in
freshwater tanks too.............but the process of using an
antibiotic to knock it out will also affect yur bio filtration as well
so pull your media and place in another tank until your treatment is
over with........

* No, it's not cyano. I haven't had that problem in years.

Hair algae can be good up to a point anyhow, but control how much and
what you feed and that usually handles HA pretty well.........along
with proper lightin g scheduels etc. You may not be able to Eliminate"
algae, but its certainly possible to keep it under control and managed
so its not a problem, even if a bit of it is there. Not much overall
that can be done for the light algae that will grow on the glass
except routine clenaing of glass with a MAG float etc, as just room
lights can kick that stuff into growing........

* That green algae doen't kill the plants like this black-red stuff does.
This stuff is also very ugly making the tank look filthy. I'm going to pick
up the HP in town this week.
--

RM....
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

Reel McKoi said the following on 12/25/2007 11:17 PM:

"AquariumFatasies" wrote in message
...

The so called devils algae or black algae normally only covers plant
leaves or filter media..........it is usually a very dark green or
black in color algae. HP method I described in other pst wil kill this
stuff but the key is keeping it gone and thats gonna take good water
parameters, proper lights and sufficieint current flow.

* This is another issue. I have to add more current. I thought of that
also. All I have are the Aquaclears at one end of these 55g tanks. I
need to replace the air-pump and stones. I also have powerheads but
they always get clogged with plant debris in these tanks so I removed
them. They're not made to go on tubes so I can't hook sponges on them.

One thing you can do for filters is what I did in my tank. I had 2 power
heads that didn't have the pieces on the bottom for the "tube" (for an
undergravel filter) on them. I found two rocks that had holes in them
(you can find them at the Pet Stores), made the holes large enough for
the filters I wanted to use, put the filter in the rock, then used zip
ties to fasten the powerhead to the rock. Then I put four small rocks
under the corners to "raise" it off the gravel. To date, I have not had
any problems with them. Having the large rock up off the bottom allows
the water flow from the bottom instead of creating a "dead zone" around
the base of the rock. Then I put the rocks where I couldn't see them
(behind plants).

The biggest problem I had was fooling with them to get the situated to
get the flow pattern that I wanted.

--
Randy
Chance Favors The Prepared Mind

"Randy Webb" wrote in message
...

Brevity snips

The biggest problem I had was fooling with them to get the situated to get
the flow pattern that I wanted.
=======================
Mine will stay in place. The problem is the intake slots clog quickly with
plant debris. Or bits of plant debris get pulled through the intake slots
and clog up the impeller.
--

RM....
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

On Dec 26, 6:59*pm, "Reel McKoi" wrote:
"Randy Webb" wrote in message

...

Brevity snips

The biggest problem I had was fooling with them to get the situated to get
the flow pattern that I wanted.

=======================
Mine will stay in place. *The problem is the intake slots clog quickly with
plant debris. Or bits of plant debris get pulled through the intake slots
and clog up the impeller. *
--

RM....
Zone 6. *Middle TN USA
~~~~ *}((((* *~~~ * }{{{{(ö

Get some Maxi or Mini Jet powerheads............I have them in my
freshwater tanks along with onion plants, and cabomba etc which is bad
about always getting in powerheads or filters, and ity has yet to clog
em up. Maxi Jets are perhaps the best powerheads out there and are the
most efficieint. I like Aqua Clear hob filters, but their power heads
leave a lot to be desired whencompared to Maxi Jets...........Hydor is
also a great power head and pretty well clog free. All come with a
nice big intake strainer also, and the Maxi Jets come with an air
venturi as well..........One thing Maxi Jets and Mini Jets are noted
for and that is they are very efficieint and do not add as much latent
heat to the water as Aqua clears and RIO and some other powerheads
do...............You can get a foam sleeve for them also that fits
over the intake strainer for use if there are baby fish etc in the
tank. They also make a powerhead well not exactly a powerhead but a
current generator, which is like a propeller in a cage about the size
of a typical powerhead, and it uses the flow from ther propeller to
create currents, and its supposed to be clog free due to its
design.........IIRC Hydor makes one as does Maxi Jet who is made by
Aquarium Phamaceuticals IIRC or it may be Seachem.....

Reel McKoi said the following on 12/26/2007 7:59 PM:

"Randy Webb" wrote in message
...

Brevity snips

The biggest problem I had was fooling with them to get the situated to
get the flow pattern that I wanted.
=======================
Mine will stay in place.

It wasn't so much getting them to stay still that I had the problem
with. With it "locked" into the rock, I couldn't lean it to get a more
upward flow that I wanted and the directional attachment didn't quite
give me the direction I wanted.

The problem is the intake slots clog quickly with plant debris.

When I do water changes, I simply pick the rock up, pull the filter out
the bottom, rinse it off in a bucket, and put it back. So far, I get
very little debris on it and what I do get easily rinses off.

Or bits of plant debris get pulled through the intake
slots and clog up the impeller.

That is why I put the filter in the rock. I couldn't attach it to the
power head because of the way they were made. So, I used the rock to
hold the filter and power-head so that the power-head can only pull
water through the filter. The filter keeps the power-head from becoming
clogged.

The two "rocks" that I have (they aren't actually true rocks) look like
someone pulled a post out of the ground that was concreted in. Then took
the concrete and cut it into 4 inch sections so that they have square
holes in the middle. I cut filters to fit into that hole and then have
it pull through the filter. In the end, about all the rocks do is give
me a stable place to hold the filter and power head where they are
stable with one another.


--
Randy
Chance Favors The Prepared Mind
comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq/index.html
Javascript Best Practices - http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/

"AquariumFatasies" wrote in message
...
Get some Maxi or Mini Jet powerheads............I have them in my
freshwater tanks along with onion plants, and cabomba etc which is bad
about always getting in powerheads or filters, and ity has yet to clog
em up. Maxi Jets are perhaps the best powerheads out there and are the
most efficieint. I like Aqua Clear hob filters, but their power heads
leave a lot to be desired whencompared to Maxi Jets...........Hydor is
also a great power head and pretty well clog free. All come with a
nice big intake strainer also, and the Maxi Jets come with an air
venturi as well..........One thing Maxi Jets and Mini Jets are noted
for and that is they are very efficieint and do not add as much latent
heat to the water as Aqua clears and RIO and some other powerheads
do...............You can get a foam sleeve for them also that fits
over the intake strainer for use if there are baby fish etc in the
tank. They also make a powerhead well not exactly a powerhead but a
current generator, which is like a propeller in a cage about the size
of a typical powerhead, and it uses the flow from ther propeller to
create currents, and its supposed to be clog free due to its
design.........IIRC Hydor makes one as does Maxi Jet who is made by
Aquarium Phamaceuticals IIRC or it may be Seachem.....
======================================
MaxiJet... that sounds familiar. I may have a few stored in the outbuilding
now that I think of it. I have to check out there....
--

RM....
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

"Randy Webb" wrote in message
...
Reel McKoi said the following on 12/26/2007 7:59 PM:

The problem is the intake slots clog quickly with plant debris.

When I do water changes, I simply pick the rock up, pull the filter out
the bottom, rinse it off in a bucket, and put it back. So far, I get very
little debris on it and what I do get easily rinses off.

OK, mine are made so there is no filter on the bottom but Roy reminded me
about some I have stored. As I recall they have an intake strainer I can
pull a sponge over to prevent clogging. My other powerheads not made the
same.

Or bits of plant debris get pulled through the intake slots and clog up
the impeller.

That is why I put the filter in the rock.

What filter? These powerheads have no filter?!?!?! They have slots where
the water is sucked in and a outflow tube.

I couldn't attach it to the
power head because of the way they were made. So, I used the rock to hold
the filter and power-head so that the power-head can only pull water
through the filter. The filter keeps the power-head from becoming clogged.

Are you talking about a sponge filter on it's intake screen? Not all of
these powerhead-like water pumps come with screens you can pull a sponge
over.

The two "rocks" that I have (they aren't actually true rocks) look like
someone pulled a post out of the ground that was concreted in. Then took
the concrete and cut it into 4 inch sections so that they have square
holes in the middle. I cut filters to fit into that hole and then have it
pull through the filter. In the end, about all the rocks do is give me a
stable place to hold the filter and power head where they are stable with
one another.

You have the type of powerhead that comes with a strainer then. I'm hoping
I have one or two out in storage.
--

RM....
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

Reel McKoi said the following on 12/27/2007 5:44 PM:

"Randy Webb" wrote in message
...
Reel McKoi said the following on 12/26/2007 7:59 PM:

The problem is the intake slots clog quickly with plant debris.

When I do water changes, I simply pick the rock up, pull the filter
out the bottom, rinse it off in a bucket, and put it back. So far, I
get very little debris on it and what I do get easily rinses off.

OK, mine are made so there is no filter on the bottom but Roy reminded
me about some I have stored. As I recall they have an intake strainer I
can pull a sponge over to prevent clogging. My other powerheads not
made the same.

One of mine is not made with an intake strainer. The other one I removed
the intake strainer from it.

Or bits of plant debris get pulled through the intake slots and clog
up the impeller.

That is why I put the filter in the rock.

What filter? These powerheads have no filter?!?!?! They have slots
where the water is sucked in and a outflow tube.

You have to make your own filter or use a different power head. The
power heads that I have in my plant tank, one doesn't have an intake
strainer (it isn't made to have one) and the other has an intake
strainer that I removed. I removed the strainer from it because the
strainer was too tall for where I wanted to use it.

Now, you have to figure out how to attach a filter to it. The solution I
came up with was to take a rock that I had (I saw some similar in
Petco). It has holes in the rock. I put a filter inside that hole. Then,
you sit the power head on top of the filter, so that the intake for the
power head is inside the filter. Any water that goes into the power head
has to go through that filter.

Then, you have to figure out how to secure the power head to the filter.
What I used are the ties that you can buy in Walmart. Cable ties. They
sell them in the Automotive section. They also sell them at Lowes and
Home Depot. They come in packs anywhere from a few to hundreds.

The purpose of the rock was to give it a stable base so that the filter
wouldn't get crushed onto the pumps. Put the pump on the filter, then
Cable Tie it all together. It is that simple. You are going to have to
be innovative or change power heads.

I couldn't attach it to the
power head because of the way they were made. So, I used the rock to
hold the filter and power-head so that the power-head can only pull
water through the filter. The filter keeps the power-head from
becoming clogged.

Are you talking about a sponge filter on it's intake screen? Not all of
these powerhead-like water pumps come with screens you can pull a sponge
over.

I can't even find that type of filter here. I hunted one and had to come
up with a solution of my own. None of it would have happened if my wife
hadn't decided that since she could feed dog food to the fish at the
dock that mine would eat it too and dumped a hand full of dog food into
the tank. I was stubborn enough to want to figure out how to clear it up
without having to change all the water.

The two "rocks" that I have (they aren't actually true rocks) look
like someone pulled a post out of the ground that was concreted in.
Then took the concrete and cut it into 4 inch sections so that they
have square holes in the middle. I cut filters to fit into that hole
and then have it pull through the filter. In the end, about all the
rocks do is give me a stable place to hold the filter and power head
where they are stable with one another.

You have the type of powerhead that comes with a strainer then. I'm
hoping I have one or two out in storage.

No. One is, one isn't. The one that is I removed it from the power head.

Right now, my digital camera battery is in the charger being recharged.
I have to do some work on the tank and will try to take some pictures
and post them online so you can see how I made it.

--
Randy
Chance Favors The Prepared Mind

In rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants Reel McKoi wrote:
:
: "TSJ of course" wrote in message
: ...
: By the way, unlike like lamps
: specialy made for aquariums, ordinary house lamps would not light up
: the whole aquarium the same way.

There is considerable hype on aquaurium bulbs. The T8 (8/8ths of an inch
wide) fluorescent lamps do pretty good job. At some big bog hardware stores,
you can get a 6500K spectrum bulb at $5.00 per 4 foot tube. It grows plants
really well for the money. Pick up one of the new-style shop lights with
an electronic ballast and a half-decent gull-wing reflector for about
$40.00. This low budget system will do a pretty good job at raising
plants. You might do better by using one 6500K tube and one plant
grow tube (Vitalight, GrowLux, ...) But this is still really cheap.

You could get better results with fancy $30.00 aquarium tubes, but they
won't be twice as good than the cheap $5.00 6500K and $15.00 plant
tubes.

: OK, the sites just sell bulbs. There's no explanation of what's best for FW
: tanks or tanks with algae problems. Now the problem with my buying bulbs to
: help with the algae would be a hard sell to my husband since the Flourish
: Excel fiasco.

I have a better luck with algae by using a 6500K bulb instead of 4100K
"cool white" or the not-very-good 3500K "warm white" tubes.

: I was assured over and over that algae turns white and falls
: off when FE is used. Although I found that almost impossible to believe,
: like a fool I bought the stuff. I bought a lot of it, and it's totally
: useless. Then the same man from the plant group tried to get me to purchase
: some other expensive crap from his friend who sells fertilizers.

: spend well over $100 on bulbs and still have the algae problem. So you can
: see why I hesitate to start buying expensive bulbs when the FE did nothing.

I have had really good luck with Seachem Flourish Excel. It helps keep
my tank that tends to have a moderate algae problems to barely noticable
algae here and there. Please note that it does kill certain kinds of
plants (Vallisneria, Elodia (Anacharis), and Saggiteria. The product
is way too expensive unless you buy it in bulk by the gallon jug.

However, this product is not a cure-all. It's optimal for planted tank
that grows plants pretty well that also has pesky algae. It won't
transform an unsuccessful planted tank where the plants usually die into
an Amano-style masterpiece.

In rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants Reel McKoi wrote:
:
: "AquariumFatasies" wrote in message
: ...
: On Dec 24, 7:55 pm, "Reel McKoi" wrote:
: I did add another rubberlip pleco to that tank today. Massive water
: changes
: and serious gravel vacuuming has made no difference either.
: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: OK, now were getting somewhere. Regular old shop lights with a with
: reflector. That is most likely the main problem. First off, the
: reflectors on those lights are made to reflect light from a height so
: yuo get decent light dispersion.

The typical shop light reflector isn't that good, but it's not
really much worse than the polished box reflector found in the
vast majority of commercial aquarium fixtures.

Ideally, something of a parabolic reflector for each tube works
best at sending light straight down into the tank where one gets
maximum penetration in deeper tanks. A commercial (and very
expensive) fixture that does an excellent job at this is the
T5 HO TekLight.

The typical polished rectangular box doesn't send light down into
the tank, but tends to bounce it around until it hits one of the
fluorescent tubes. (The exercise of comparing a pseudo-parabolic
reflector against a rectangular box via a geometry diagram is left
to the reader.) Manufacturers compensate for the bad reflector
by adding more tubes to the unit. These fixtures do work OK and
the extra tubes aren't really much of an issue unless you have
more than a few tanks which makes one much more interested in
conserving electricity to reduce a very high electricity bill.

I grow plants with highly efficient Tek Lights, and less effective
polished box reflector fixtures. Both do OK. Medium light tanks
are more forgiving, so those tanks get my old less efficient
reflector light fixtures.

As for algae and light, it gets tricker the more light you add
to the aquarium. So for beginners, I recommend starting out with
medium light level plants with a medium light level fixture.
A cheap shop light with a simple reflector will do the job for
this. It's not as effective as one with a parabolic reflector,
but for medium light, it will be good enough.

Bulbs are _not_ the primary cause algae, it's the water conditions.
Adding more light just speeds up the growth of everything (desirable
plants and algae). Poor water conditions under medium light will
require you to monthly scrape off ugly algae. Poor water conditions
under very high light will require you to daily scrape off ugly algae.

My philosophy is that for the first year, it's better to take the
cheap route and get some successes with easy-to-grow medium light
plants than to take the expensive high risk route where it takes
some real skill and experience to keep algae at bay.

: * No. They have the shade thing on the sides to direct the light downward.
: They come that way. The tanks are very bright.
:
: The light reflected is made to
: disperse out and cover a wide area (cone of dispersion) and that they
: are that close to a tank and only have a short distance to travel
: until the light hits the substrate and is reflected out or back,. odds
: are the majority of your light is being reflected "OUTSIDE" the tank
: itself,
:
: * The light is reflected down due to the side things on the reflectors.
:
: and not as much inside the tank as you really think is there.
: White reflectors is sufficient in most cases for a shop light however
: it does little to nothing for good results in a fish tank, but its
: still better than black. I'll bet you a coffee that proper bulbs (no
: more than 2x40Wattaers of the correct kelvin temps and "PROPER"
: reflectors will be more than enough light for "ANY" Freshwater palnts
: you can possibly grow in a 55 gal tank.
:
: * These provide enough LIGHT to grow plants successfully - until the algae
: starts growing on them. Once the algae attacks them, either the red (I call
: black) or green algae, their growth stops. I was told that Flourish Excel
: would kill off the algae by an old timer on these groups. That wasn't true.
: It seems to stimulate the algae.
:
: .............People
: underestimate the reflectors on a fish tank and next to the proper
: lamp itself they are very important. If yu have the right light bulb,
: and can not get it to disperse properly you may as well use any old
: lamp as your not getting the full benefit out of them.
:
: * Which is the right bulb in preventing red and green algae? And are they
: guaranteed to work? If one doesn't work do I have to keep buying and
: throwing out one bulb after another? I honestly never heard of a bulb that
: allowed aquarium plants to thrive but not algae.
:
: I am sure you or your better half can nail and cut a few boards.Why
: not get some 1 x 6 pine and fashion up a quick and dirty wooden hood
: for a fish tank (do one tank to start) nothuing needs to b e fancey,
: and just look at how some hoods are made in places like Petco er ah
: make that Deathco. A simple wooden frame box, with a few slats of 1 x
: 2 spaced apart on top to allow heat and ventilation to escape, and
: also provides a place to mount lights under. If yu want some pics I
: can post URL of a few sites that has simple yet effective aquarium
: hoods that are easy enough to make. Then pay Big Als or another online
: vendor a call, and purchase proper reflectors and attach them to the
: metal white reflectors all ready on yuor shop lights......or retro fit
: ballast and sockets etc from shop lights into the wooden hood..and
: install proper bulbs.
:
: * I'm not at all handy with tools and making things out of wood. And how
: will that get rid of the algae? Also, I really don't want to have to lift a
: heavy wood hood every time I feed the fish or want to remove algae from the
: front glass. I never heard of any reflectors or bulbs that caused plants to
: thrive but not algae. I can't afford to try one bulb after the other.....
:
: .....................done..............a quick
: stain is all thats needed to finish it off..............and maybe a
: top coat of clear sealer like polyurethane or varnish............I can
: just about guarantee, your black algae problems will be over and you
: can grow virtually any freshwater plant around then in these
: aquariums.
:
: * Why would the algae problems be over? The Flourish Excel was supposed to
: do that and it does nothing. It doesn't even help the plants grow. It's a
: rip-off like so many products these days. I don't follow your logic here
: with the wood reflector. The units come with shade type reflectors that
: direct the light downwards.
:
: The lights would be a much different inmprovement that
: will be benefical and work. Flourish Excel may work but its not going
: to take the palce of having a proper lighting setup.
:
: * What bulbs are the proper bulbs that allow plant but not algae growth? I
: found no such bulbs online. Which are you using?
:
: The lights you
: have now are fine and dandy for a fish only tank or with a few low
: light requirement plants, but still leave a lot to b e desired overall
: as the color specturm and kelvin is totally wrong.
:
: * Then what is the correct spectrum and Kelvin to allow plant but not algae
: growth and do they guarantee them or will I go broke replacing bulbs?
:
: Your plants as well
: as your fish will all look and grow better, well the plants will
: anyhow, because fish for thr most part are not reliant on linghts like
: a plant is, but I bet the colors in the fish will be much more
: vibrant. I believe lighting is about the most important item that can
: be done to a fish tank that is going to have live plants or corals in
: p lace and the person with the tank is totally committed to having
: nice plants and corals growing, than almost any other thing that can
: be done to a tank. Heck even the cheapest filters around will do a
: decent job of what they are designed for, but a light is not that
: way.............a cheap light setup will not do a thing for a fish
: tank other than provide illumination for the tanks owner to see whats
: inside..................
:
: Once proper lights are in place
:
: * Which are the proper lights and do they guarantee no algae? The Flourish
: Excel was supposed to take care of algae.
:
: it may take a
: few weeks to a month or two to get lighting schedule worked out, but
: odds are in that time frame your plants are gonna start to kick ass
: and things will look better every day...........
:
: * Yep! That's what they said on the plant NG (RAFP) about the Flourish
: Excel.
:
: ..Like I said propper
: bulbs and reflectors in a home brew hood is not even in the same
: league as adding supplements to a tank..........
:
: Eveyone tells me something different. The FE was supposed to do magic along
: with water changes and gravel vacuuming. They swore that was the answer. A
: homemade hood is out of the question. I don't know anyone who could make it
: for me and I don't want to have to lift down a heavy wood hood every time I
: want to feed my fish. I see no connection between a homemade hood and alge.
:
: So which bulbs are guaranteed to get rid of the algae and did you have the
: same conditions I have? If they're not guaranteed to work I wont keep
: throwing money away on bulb after bulb.