Mirror in the fishtank

Uh - you're supposed to tape the mirror to the OUTSIDE of the tank!

On a sidenote, regarding some of the other replies: why would anyone,
ever, *want* their cichlid to become psychotic?
Anyway, if you want psycho fish, get yourself a male and keep him all
alone in a big tank. As he matures he'll grow hyperaggressive and be
impossible to keep with other fish; he'll even try to attack his owner
through the glass. Which apparently somehow is a good thing.

"Cichlidiot" wrote in message
...
In rec.aquaria.freshwater.cichlids Koi-Lo wrote:

: If you just have to keep those nasty tempered cichlids there are always
: those tank dividers the FSs sell. I haven't seen anyone on these NGs
: mention them. They do come in handy and they do work.

That's because they are too flimsy to work with large cichlids. All the
ones I've seen are not very ridgid in the center. A good whack by a
determined large fish and the pressure that keeps it mounted to the sides
gives way. Usually one corner towards the bottom will float away from the
tank glass at this point and that's enough of an opening for the cichlid
to get through. At least that has been my experience with store-bought
tank dividers.

This is true. I didn't keep my SA cichlids long enough for them to reach
such a size (to down the dividers).

Now, there is a DIY tank divider that uses egg crate. Egg crate is much
less flexible and stands up to the abuse better. What you do is go over
to the hardware store and ask for the lighting section.

I know what it is. I got mine from Home Depot. I used it to keep jumpers
from committing suicide. I decided to switch to Lake Malawi African
Cichlids so didn't need dividers. I just got rid of the overly aggressive
ones.

When there, ask
for the 2'x4' light diffusers. One will be a series of white squares.
This is egg crate. Get some good wire/plastic snippers while there too
if you don't have any. If you want to cover the rough edges of the cut
egg crate, you can also pick up some food grade flexible tubing (like
filter hose tubing) that is of sufficient diameter to slip over the edge.
Go home, measure the tank, cut the egg crate to size. Optionally cut a
slit in the tubing and slip it over all the rough edges in the egg crate.
Put it in the tank and secure with ties or suction cups so the fish cannot
push it around. Classic divider. Here's a few sites with pictures of such
dividers and fancier variations:

http://cichlidresearch.com/tips.html
http://www.aquamojo.com/misc/divider.html (Uses PVC with suction cups)
http://www.gcca.net/howto/tank_divider.htm (Uses PVC frame)

One advantage with egg crate is you can cut small openings in the middle
(be sure to sand the edges smooth so fish don't scrape themselves). Then
smaller fish can have full run of the tank while the larger fish is kept
in its side. This is often used to breed large cichlids where the female
is smaller than the male. This way the female can retreat to safety when
need be, but still interact with her mate otherwise. This is often called
the incomplete divider method. If you have Loiselle's Cichlid Aquarium
book, there is a picture of such a divider in the breeding section.

I saw the pic. I may still have the book out in the storage outbuilding.
Hummm... no, maybe it was in a book on breeding cichlids. Wow, that
description brought back memories. :-)
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

wrote in message
ups.com...
Uh - you're supposed to tape the mirror to the OUTSIDE of the tank!

On a sidenote, regarding some of the other replies: why would anyone,
ever, *want* their cichlid to become psychotic?
Anyway, if you want psycho fish, get yourself a male and keep him all
alone in a big tank. As he matures he'll grow hyperaggressive and be
impossible to keep with other fish; he'll even try to attack his owner
through the glass. Which apparently somehow is a good thing.



All the hyper-aggressives I've seen were living in isolation because of
their personality. I'd never known or seen isolation intentionally used to
create a hyper-aggressive fish. If this is true, I hope it doesn't become
common knowledge.
--
www.NetMax.tk

In rec.aquaria.freshwater.cichlids NetMax wrote:
: All the hyper-aggressives I've seen were living in isolation because of
: their personality. I'd never known or seen isolation intentionally used to
: create a hyper-aggressive fish. If this is true, I hope it doesn't become
: common knowledge.

It sounded more like a description of how fighting pit bulls were raised
than of fish. Now, I can see if you take a typically aggressive fish that
has been living solo in a tank barely adequate for his needs and throw in
another fish how he might kill it. But that has more to do with not paying
attention to the territorial needs of the fish and the proper ways to
introduce adult territorial fish (particularly two males, who would be
rivals in the wild). If you raised them together since juvenials in the
same tank, there would probably still come a day that they beat the snot
out of each other once they get too big for the tank. It's just the nature
of cichlids, but I can see how someone less knowledgable who's been reading
too much about fighting pit bulls could make the mistake. Hint, the key
difference between dogs and cichlids: dogs are pack animals if properly
socialized as puppies, most cichlids are not.

In rec.aquaria.freshwater.cichlids Gill Passman wrote:
: By putting in a mirror you will be causing stress to the fish in
: question...he is now involved in a battle he cannot win...imagine
: spending your entire life face to face with whoever you perceive to be
: the enemy.

I call BS on this one. If this were true, countless breeders around the
world who use rack systems would be subjecting their cichlids to stress
because they can see the fish in the neighboring tank, but not actually
reach them. I watch my N. pulcher and N. similis in neighboring tanks in
the rack stare and flare at each other through the glass all the time.
Are you going to say all of the breeders using these rack setups are
being cruel to our fish? Please, watch for the slippery slope before you
slide on down it.

Cichlidiot wrote:
In rec.aquaria.freshwater.cichlids Gill Passman wrote:
: By putting in a mirror you will be causing stress to the fish in
: question...he is now involved in a battle he cannot win...imagine
: spending your entire life face to face with whoever you perceive to be
: the enemy.

I call BS on this one. If this were true, countless breeders around the
world who use rack systems would be subjecting their cichlids to stress
because they can see the fish in the neighboring tank, but not actually
reach them. I watch my N. pulcher and N. similis in neighboring tanks in
the rack stare and flare at each other through the glass all the time.
Are you going to say all of the breeders using these rack setups are
being cruel to our fish? Please, watch for the slippery slope before you
slide on down it.

I think that maybe you miss my point here....fish flaring at one another
in neighbouring tanks is a whole different scenario...one will
eventually back down or maybe the battle will continue who knows....a
fish attacking itself is entirely different - he cannot possibly win or
lose because his reflection is just what it is "a mirror image" - so it
becomes an endless fight...even with fish in neighbouring tanks the same
thing does not apply because you are looking at the individual fish and
not mirror copies of one fish in terms of agression - and lets face it
with breeders their fish have that ultimate outlet of sex with the
various females...in an enclosed space with just one male, I do believe
getting him to fight it out with himself is not good for him - he will
never win and no pecking order can be established...So I say to you that
there is a very big difference between two male fish seeing one another
and an individual fish fighting himself....I don't believe that you are
suggesting that those that breed fish just show the males
themsleves..there is a myriad of difference here...

Would you ever put a betta in a tank with a continual mirror image of
himself? I for one would never do it...would I keep multiple sex
cichlids in a tank knowing that there will be the alpha and subordinate
struggle irrespective of divides - yes I do....do I keep other fish
together that have the same conflicts - yes I do...would I ever isolate
my most aggressive Mbuna and just give him a mirror image of himself to
fight - never...it would be cruel...

Gill

Ok how about this... Take the green terror back, and swap it for
another very similar looking green severum, and your girlfriend will
never know...

i could always let u borrow my red devil for a few hours to drop in ur
tank and see if hes still mean after that.



--
Posted via CichlidFish.com
http://www.cichlidfish.com/portal/forums

wrote:
Uh - you're supposed to tape the mirror to the OUTSIDE of the tank!

On a sidenote, regarding some of the other replies: why would anyone,
ever, *want* their cichlid to become psychotic?
Anyway, if you want psycho fish, get yourself a male and keep him all
alone in a big tank. As he matures he'll grow hyperaggressive and be
impossible to keep with other fish; he'll even try to attack his owner
through the glass. Which apparently somehow is a good thing.

Psychotic is a hard take on it, Mike. I admire a fish that can give
attitude from a bucket but I wouldn't want to turn a fish into a psycho and
it isn't the quality that I like. As BD says, a fish like this usually has
an interesting, intelligent and interactive personality. He'll be
interested in everything - inside and outside the tank. He'll look you in
the eye and have an opinion. If he's fearless then all the better. A
fish that thinks "stuff the food chain" is special, all considered, and
fearless doesn't necessarily mean psychotic.

I've been keeping cichlids for 20 years. During this time 95% of the time in my tank is a peaceful, almost no "threat"any more than fish terror is stored in a tank started. And possible
Territorial species, such as I found a good initial treatment balance is difficult, in this case I seem to have a particularly aggressive specimens.