Spoke too soon?

Everyone on the list helped me out last week with my water problems. I did
the 50% changes for 3 days, removed all the ornaments, etc. and everythign
was fine. My problem fish is acting up again. He was fine for the first
few days after the major changes, and is now back to hiding. Now he wedges
himself in the corner between the filter pick-up and tank wall, vertically,
head up. He'll sit like this for 10 -30 minutes, then come out and swim
around for a while, and then go back. Sometimes he acts like he's "dizzy"
when he comes out of hiding, swimming sloppily, etc.

All of my water parameters are still good. Since the 3 50% changes, I've
done one 6 gallon change, and 1 9 gallon change of water, 4 days between
each. All nitrites, nitrates, ammonia, hardness, etc. test well within
acceptable levels (as in my original post I've copies below).

I'm just at a loss. I can not for the life of me figure out what is wrong
with this fish. I can't think of one single thing I've not tested for, and
all of the tests come out fine.

Any further suggestions?

Thank you,

Devin

"Devin" wrote in message
link.net...

I'm having a water quality problem here. I thought I would list out

everything and see if anyone here has any ideas. I'm running out of

things to try.



I have a 40 gallon tank. Emperor 280 filter, I swap out the charcoal

cartridge in it every other week, rinse every week. The extra media

tray in the filter is filled with floss, which I also rinse or replace

every week. I have an airpump, and a 24" bubblebar which puts out a

lot of bubbles (bubbles do not interfere with filter pickup tube). I

change 6-9 gallons of the water every week, water is aged at least 24

hours in covered vat with airstone, about 1.5 tablespoons of aquarium

salt and declor added to water. Besides these items, the only other

things in the tank are some polished river rocks, 4 small silk

aquarium plants, 1 large silk plant, and 1 live plant. I also keep 1

small piece of coral in there to keep the PH up. Hood tank light, it

kicks on at 3:30 every afternoon and turns off at 11:30 at night.

Tank temp is 76-78 degrees depending on time of day.



Parameters are as follows: Nitrite 0(zero) ppm;PH 7.6; Ammonia

0(Zero)ppm; Nitrate is between 5 and 10 ppm (closer to 5 on chart). I

use the Doc Wellfish water testing kit for all of these readings.



5 goldfish in tank, 2 are very small (only an inch long, hatched last

year), one is medium with a 2 inch body, and two are large, about 8

inches overall.



Here's the thing: had high Nitrates (almost 20ppm) a few weeks back- I

think I goofed and overfed or something. It had been over 6 months

since last total cleaning, so I did one. Drained tank, rinsed and

scrubbed the tank with hot water. Broke apart and scrubbed out filter

with hot water. Plants and rocks were soaked overnight in bleach and

water solution, rinsed over several days and in several different vats

of fresh water, and air dried. Scrubbed the bubble bar with hot water.

(scrubbing of everything is done with old toothbrush that is only used

for aquarium cleaning, and one of the white nylon acrylic tank

scouring pads).



Set tank back up, let it run with the filter going, bubble bar

running, and a hang on canister filter with fresh carbon for about 36

hours. Re-introduced fish. Have been checking water every other day

over past week and a half and readings stay as listed above.



Okay, here's the problem. I have a large fish who keeps hiding. He

gets in the back and wedges himself under the bubble bar and sits on

the bottom. When the tank was first re-setup, he was active. As the

days went on he first started hiding when the light was on. Now he

hides all of the time. When it's time to get fed, he comes out and is

active, eats, forages for an hour or so, and then hides again. I also

had one of my favorite fish die last week; I don't think it was

related to this (she had had a pea stuck in her mouth 3 weeks ago and

it was overnight before I found out about it and removed it, and I

think it lead to her death), but I can't be sure. Besides the one

fish hiding, none of the other fish show signs of injuries, fin

veining, or any other problems.



I think there is something wrong with the water that the tests are not

showing. Should I have replaced the bubble bar and bleach cleaned the

tank and filter as well? Are there any other water tests I'm not

doing that I should? It seems to me that there may be waterborne

parasites at work here. In the past I have had situations similar to

this, and adding CopperSafe medication to the water seemed to help for

a while. I've done tests on the water right out of the tap, and they

coincide with the results I listed earlier.



Thanks for any suggestions.



Devin

what is left in the tank?
do some more big water changes.
was anything put into your water changing equipment?
The Goldfish Guru would sometimes just move fish to a new tank when she couldnt
figure out what the hell was going on. even with a battery of tests sometimes the
only thing you can do is move em and start from scratch. I may be prejudiced being a
microbiologist, but I think there are microbes or parasites that can get into our
tanks and cause havoc that we really dont know about or detect. so the only thing to
do is break everything down, sterilize with bleach, rinse, rinse rinse leave it out
in the sun and start over. especially if that tank has been doing fine for a while.

in teh meantime get a 20-40 gallon rubbermaid container to serve as
hospital/quarantine "tank". more water is better.
Ingrid


"Devin" wrote:

Everyone on the list helped me out last week with my water problems. I did
the 50% changes for 3 days, removed all the ornaments, etc. and everythign
was fine. My problem fish is acting up again. He was fine for the first
few days after the major changes, and is now back to hiding. Now he wedges
himself in the corner between the filter pick-up and tank wall, vertically,
head up. He'll sit like this for 10 -30 minutes, then come out and swim
around for a while, and then go back. Sometimes he acts like he's "dizzy"
when he comes out of hiding, swimming sloppily, etc.

All of my water parameters are still good. Since the 3 50% changes, I've
done one 6 gallon change, and 1 9 gallon change of water, 4 days between
each. All nitrites, nitrates, ammonia, hardness, etc. test well within
acceptable levels (as in my original post I've copies below).

I'm just at a loss. I can not for the life of me figure out what is wrong
with this fish. I can't think of one single thing I've not tested for, and
all of the tests come out fine.

Any further suggestions?

Thank you,

Devin

"Devin" wrote in message
hlink.net...

I'm having a water quality problem here. I thought I would list out

everything and see if anyone here has any ideas. I'm running out of

things to try.



I have a 40 gallon tank. Emperor 280 filter, I swap out the charcoal

cartridge in it every other week, rinse every week. The extra media

tray in the filter is filled with floss, which I also rinse or replace

every week. I have an airpump, and a 24" bubblebar which puts out a

lot of bubbles (bubbles do not interfere with filter pickup tube). I

change 6-9 gallons of the water every week, water is aged at least 24

hours in covered vat with airstone, about 1.5 tablespoons of aquarium

salt and declor added to water. Besides these items, the only other

things in the tank are some polished river rocks, 4 small silk

aquarium plants, 1 large silk plant, and 1 live plant. I also keep 1

small piece of coral in there to keep the PH up. Hood tank light, it

kicks on at 3:30 every afternoon and turns off at 11:30 at night.

Tank temp is 76-78 degrees depending on time of day.



Parameters are as follows: Nitrite 0(zero) ppm;PH 7.6; Ammonia

0(Zero)ppm; Nitrate is between 5 and 10 ppm (closer to 5 on chart). I

use the Doc Wellfish water testing kit for all of these readings.



5 goldfish in tank, 2 are very small (only an inch long, hatched last

year), one is medium with a 2 inch body, and two are large, about 8

inches overall.



Here's the thing: had high Nitrates (almost 20ppm) a few weeks back- I

think I goofed and overfed or something. It had been over 6 months

since last total cleaning, so I did one. Drained tank, rinsed and

scrubbed the tank with hot water. Broke apart and scrubbed out filter

with hot water. Plants and rocks were soaked overnight in bleach and

water solution, rinsed over several days and in several different vats

of fresh water, and air dried. Scrubbed the bubble bar with hot water.

(scrubbing of everything is done with old toothbrush that is only used

for aquarium cleaning, and one of the white nylon acrylic tank

scouring pads).



Set tank back up, let it run with the filter going, bubble bar

running, and a hang on canister filter with fresh carbon for about 36

hours. Re-introduced fish. Have been checking water every other day

over past week and a half and readings stay as listed above.



Okay, here's the problem. I have a large fish who keeps hiding. He

gets in the back and wedges himself under the bubble bar and sits on

the bottom. When the tank was first re-setup, he was active. As the

days went on he first started hiding when the light was on. Now he

hides all of the time. When it's time to get fed, he comes out and is

active, eats, forages for an hour or so, and then hides again. I also

had one of my favorite fish die last week; I don't think it was

related to this (she had had a pea stuck in her mouth 3 weeks ago and

it was overnight before I found out about it and removed it, and I

think it lead to her death), but I can't be sure. Besides the one

fish hiding, none of the other fish show signs of injuries, fin

veining, or any other problems.



I think there is something wrong with the water that the tests are not

showing. Should I have replaced the bubble bar and bleach cleaned the

tank and filter as well? Are there any other water tests I'm not

doing that I should? It seems to me that there may be waterborne

parasites at work here. In the past I have had situations similar to

this, and adding CopperSafe medication to the water seemed to help for

a while. I've done tests on the water right out of the tap, and they

coincide with the results I listed earlier.



Thanks for any suggestions.



Devin




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Still in the tank are some of the polished river stones, maybe 6 of them,
and the 4 live plants. The plants are in the plastic "baskets" they came
from the store in, which has that batting-like substance in the bottom, and
those sit in solid clear gleass candle holders that were cleaned with a hot
water and salt solution, rinsed, and air dried before putting in the tank.
The only other thing in the tank is the 24" bubble bar, which I replaced
with a totally new unit 2 weeks ago.

The only other thing that hasn't been bleached and rinsed in the past two
months is the filter itself, the Emperor 280.

I'll keep doing the major water changes (9 gallons of the 40 every other day
enough?) and keep an eye on him. He did perk up well after the last batch.

I'm with you, I think there's something in the water that no water test kit
will detect. I'm DYING to put some CopperSafe in the water, as that's
helped in the past, but I'll abstain on your advice.

Thanks,

Devin


wrote in message
...
what is left in the tank?
do some more big water changes.
was anything put into your water changing equipment?
The Goldfish Guru would sometimes just move fish to a new tank when she
couldnt
figure out what the hell was going on. even with a battery of tests
sometimes the
only thing you can do is move em and start from scratch. I may be
prejudiced being a
microbiologist, but I think there are microbes or parasites that can get
into our
tanks and cause havoc that we really dont know about or detect. so the
only thing to
do is break everything down, sterilize with bleach, rinse, rinse rinse
leave it out
in the sun and start over. especially if that tank has been doing fine
for a while.

in teh meantime get a 20-40 gallon rubbermaid container to serve as
hospital/quarantine "tank". more water is better.
Ingrid


"Devin" wrote:

Everyone on the list helped me out last week with my water problems. I
did
the 50% changes for 3 days, removed all the ornaments, etc. and
everythign
was fine. My problem fish is acting up again. He was fine for the first
few days after the major changes, and is now back to hiding. Now he
wedges
himself in the corner between the filter pick-up and tank wall,
vertically,
head up. He'll sit like this for 10 -30 minutes, then come out and swim
around for a while, and then go back. Sometimes he acts like he's
"dizzy"
when he comes out of hiding, swimming sloppily, etc.

All of my water parameters are still good. Since the 3 50% changes, I've
done one 6 gallon change, and 1 9 gallon change of water, 4 days between
each. All nitrites, nitrates, ammonia, hardness, etc. test well within
acceptable levels (as in my original post I've copies below).

I'm just at a loss. I can not for the life of me figure out what is
wrong
with this fish. I can't think of one single thing I've not tested for,
and
all of the tests come out fine.

Any further suggestions?

Thank you,

Devin

"Devin" wrote in message
hlink.net...

I'm having a water quality problem here. I thought I would list out

everything and see if anyone here has any ideas. I'm running out of

things to try.



I have a 40 gallon tank. Emperor 280 filter, I swap out the charcoal

cartridge in it every other week, rinse every week. The extra media

tray in the filter is filled with floss, which I also rinse or replace

every week. I have an airpump, and a 24" bubblebar which puts out a

lot of bubbles (bubbles do not interfere with filter pickup tube). I

change 6-9 gallons of the water every week, water is aged at least 24

hours in covered vat with airstone, about 1.5 tablespoons of aquarium

salt and declor added to water. Besides these items, the only other

things in the tank are some polished river rocks, 4 small silk

aquarium plants, 1 large silk plant, and 1 live plant. I also keep 1

small piece of coral in there to keep the PH up. Hood tank light, it

kicks on at 3:30 every afternoon and turns off at 11:30 at night.

Tank temp is 76-78 degrees depending on time of day.



Parameters are as follows: Nitrite 0(zero) ppm;PH 7.6; Ammonia

0(Zero)ppm; Nitrate is between 5 and 10 ppm (closer to 5 on chart). I

use the Doc Wellfish water testing kit for all of these readings.



5 goldfish in tank, 2 are very small (only an inch long, hatched last

year), one is medium with a 2 inch body, and two are large, about 8

inches overall.



Here's the thing: had high Nitrates (almost 20ppm) a few weeks back- I

think I goofed and overfed or something. It had been over 6 months

since last total cleaning, so I did one. Drained tank, rinsed and

scrubbed the tank with hot water. Broke apart and scrubbed out filter

with hot water. Plants and rocks were soaked overnight in bleach and

water solution, rinsed over several days and in several different vats

of fresh water, and air dried. Scrubbed the bubble bar with hot water.

(scrubbing of everything is done with old toothbrush that is only used

for aquarium cleaning, and one of the white nylon acrylic tank

scouring pads).



Set tank back up, let it run with the filter going, bubble bar

running, and a hang on canister filter with fresh carbon for about 36

hours. Re-introduced fish. Have been checking water every other day

over past week and a half and readings stay as listed above.



Okay, here's the problem. I have a large fish who keeps hiding. He

gets in the back and wedges himself under the bubble bar and sits on

the bottom. When the tank was first re-setup, he was active. As the

days went on he first started hiding when the light was on. Now he

hides all of the time. When it's time to get fed, he comes out and is

active, eats, forages for an hour or so, and then hides again. I also

had one of my favorite fish die last week; I don't think it was

related to this (she had had a pea stuck in her mouth 3 weeks ago and

it was overnight before I found out about it and removed it, and I

think it lead to her death), but I can't be sure. Besides the one

fish hiding, none of the other fish show signs of injuries, fin

veining, or any other problems.



I think there is something wrong with the water that the tests are not

showing. Should I have replaced the bubble bar and bleach cleaned the

tank and filter as well? Are there any other water tests I'm not

doing that I should? It seems to me that there may be waterborne

parasites at work here. In the past I have had situations similar to

this, and adding CopperSafe medication to the water seemed to help for

a while. I've done tests on the water right out of the tap, and they

coincide with the results I listed earlier.



Thanks for any suggestions.



Devin




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.