Safety of Copper Pipes?

FWIW:

OASE Mineralife, "Essential Trace Minerals for Koi and Pond Fish"
contains copper as well as zinc, aluminum, boron, bromine, calcium
chromium, chlorine, cobalt, iodine, iron, lithium, magnesium,
manganese, molybdenum, nickel, potassium, selenium, sodium, strontium,
sulfur and vanadium.

Kent Koi Essential, "Essential Trace Mineral Supplement for Koi and
Other Pond Fish" contains Copper sulphate, Zinc chloride, Potassium
chloride, Calcium chloride, Magnesium chloride, Potassium iodide,
Chromium chloride, Cobalt chloride, Ferric chloride, Manganese
chloride, Nickle chloride, Sodium metavanadate, Sodium molybdate,
Sodium selenate and Strontium chloride.

U.S. Aquagarden Vigor, "Essential Trace Minerals for Koi and Pond
Fish" is identical to the Kent product, also containing copper and
zinc.


Steve J. Noll | Ventura California
| Glass Block Pond http://www.kissingfrogs.tv

It sounds as though two subjects are being discussed in this thread.

1) Fish toxicity. As I understand it, low pH will dissolve copper
pipes. Because copper is variably toxic to fish (dependent upon
species), this can be very bad, and suggests that avoiding the use of
copper pipes for fish is prudent.

2) Pipe integrity. As Hal points out, copper pipes used today contain
alloys that do not stand up well to high temperatures and/or high flow
rates. They degrade (independently of pH), but do not leach copper at
excessive rates (unless pH is low) . In effect, the copper pipe
becomes a copper sponge tube. Might not be bad for fish, but leaks
are likely to occur.

Use PVC piping. Minimum Schedule 40.

Hal wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:23:21 -0500, "Sam Hopkins"
wrote:

My guess is there's something more sinister going on. Copper pipes have been
used a long long long time in homes with water that is above 7 PH and the
plumping in them still exists after 80 years.

There was a flap about copper pipes not standing up to water here and
someone blamed impurities in the copper. Sounds reasonable to me,
but I'm not a metallurgist, just a tinkerer. At the time of the flap
most of the copper tube was being imported, can't remember which
country was making it cheap enough to ship it in cheaper than we could
make it here, but sometimes you get what you pay for.

Regards,

Hal

(Cla) wrote in message . com...
Years ago I took a fish health course at Dr. Gratjeck(sp?) and in the
class there was a real horror story about an exotic fish store that
had major fish kill because someone attached a copper line......

Wild guess here but maybe the "exotic" fish were salt water fish.
Maybe the Salt water and copper reacted?
Especially if there was another metal in the system they could have
had a bad case of electrolisis.

I know I've got a copper patch on the side of my preform pond that's
3 years old. My fish are still ok.

While were repeating things that need repeating - did you
know that Madeline Murray O'Hare was trying to get Touched by an
Angel removed from TV??? --- I'M JUST KIDDING!!!!

Peace!
Dan D. Louisville Ky good ole USA
http://ky-dan.com

Ahhh but do the people still exist??=BF=BF



http://community.webtv.net/rebeljoe/POND

acid water an metals are not a good combination.

(Dan D.) wrote:

(Cla) wrote in message . com...
Years ago I took a fish health course at Dr. Gratjeck(sp?) and in the
class there was a real horror story about an exotic fish store that
had major fish kill because someone attached a copper line......

Wild guess here but maybe the "exotic" fish were salt water fish.
Maybe the Salt water and copper reacted?
Especially if there was another metal in the system they could have
had a bad case of electrolisis.

I know I've got a copper patch on the side of my preform pond that's
3 years old. My fish are still ok.

While were repeating things that need repeating - did you
know that Madeline Murray O'Hare was trying to get Touched by an
Angel removed from TV??? --- I'M JUST KIDDING!!!!

Peace!
Dan D. Louisville Ky good ole USA
http://ky-dan.com



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

I had a good example of that recently while remodeling my kitchen.
The copper water line to the icemaker was disconnected for over a
month while the plumbing was relocated, cabinets replaced, etc. When
the line was hooked up again water wouldn't flow. Approximately 6" at
one end was plugged with a bright greenish gunk - presumably the
product of a reaction between the local tap water, the copper, and
air.

PlainBill

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 15:33:15 GMT, wrote:

acid water an metals are not a good combination.

(Dan D.) wrote:

(Cla) wrote in message . com...
Years ago I took a fish health course at Dr. Gratjeck(sp?) and in the
class there was a real horror story about an exotic fish store that
had major fish kill because someone attached a copper line......

Wild guess here but maybe the "exotic" fish were salt water fish.
Maybe the Salt water and copper reacted?
Especially if there was another metal in the system they could have
had a bad case of electrolisis.

I know I've got a copper patch on the side of my preform pond that's
3 years old. My fish are still ok.

While were repeating things that need repeating - did you
know that Madeline Murray O'Hare was trying to get Touched by an
Angel removed from TV??? --- I'M JUST KIDDING!!!!

Peace!
Dan D. Louisville Ky good ole USA
http://ky-dan.com



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.