fish condition

I feel compelled to post again before the 'turnaround' time is
complete. Hoping maybe someone can see a pattern. I am still
watching my ph and I think it is stablizing around the 7.8-8.4 mark
throughout the day. Some of the fish are cause for concern. Pretty
sure the koi is getting worse. Today I bought some slowly floating
goldfish food (bio blend). The koi was hiding. Almost as could be
expected (no discernable pattern) the let most of it to just float to
the bottom. I did not feed them anymore. I left for about 10 mins
and when I came back the koi had emerged and had found and was
scarfing up on the food. A number of the other were also but I am
sure he got more than his fair share. AFter he had rooted around and
was sure there was no more he started swimming around first normalln,
then rapidly, the then jerking and turning sideflips and finally
jumped outta the water with a loud shaking/twitching sound. Almost
sounded like a dog trying to dry off when its wet. He jerked around a
few more times and went into his cave. Came out a minute or two lately
swam around rapidly again, no twisting or jumping. Went and hid up
some plants. I came in a started composing. Just took a break and he
is still outta site.
Before and during all this I noticed four more possible abnormalities.
Actually also down with the koi eating was a rather plump (since I
bought him) fancy tail. After he had eaten he started swimming away
and didn't really get very far before he went into a sort of epileptic
fit - twiching violently and rolling around head or tail and side to
side. Looked like he had been electrocuted. He stopped and has been
acting normal since except he seems to be still bottom hunting more
than the rest. He has done this a few times, always around eating but
never so violently.
I also have a 3 inch black moor. For quite some time he has had a
white palour about him. Almost as if someone patted him in talcum
powder and when he got wet again there is just the finest white haze
on him. I have only had him about 8 weeks so I can't be sure but I'm
imagining his skin looks a little more leatherlike. Except that two
days ago he made one little break the surface leap he is and has been
acting fine.
The last is very red previously quarantined 4 inch goldfish, acquired
only about 10 days ago from a very reputable area dealer. I bought
some trade in fish from him about 10 weeks ago which were still in the
bag on the way in. Inside of a week or so they started getting
lethargic, loners and swimming around at or near the top of the water
although they didnt seem to be gasping for air. 3 of them were also
very red large comets. (Perhaps not a coincidence the koi was the
fourth fish in the bag, although his actions are entirely different)As
they were dying (I was so stupid didn't realize what was happening)
they all seemed to have this white haze around them. Almost as if
they had an extra, extra thick slimecoat and someone had mixed that
same baby powder into it. I may have even seen some tiny air bubbles
in it - not clear on that now. The new very red fish I am thinking is
starting to have that same haze, at what would be about the same
amount of time the big comets started becoming lethargic. He is not.
This haze is different than the moor because with moor the white
almost seems to be part of his skin, although he was a deeper tone
when I got him. The red comets it seems a layer just above their
scales. I have not noticed this on any other fish before or now,
although perhaps the lack of extreme contrast makes it harder to note.
The fourth is a small 2 1/2 inch lionhead. I have 2. One seems fine
the other seems to have some little cotteny little poiny warts in his
extra head growth tissue - whatever that is called.
I hope that some of these are not related and just the fact that I
am watching them all more closely since my last deaths (6-8 weeks ago)
is making me overly suggestable to possible problems. After the
deaths many of the fish did have ick which I treated, the spots went
away and all have seemed to be well. My water I think is good. Can't
be sure but my ammonia is either .25 ppm or zero. Nitrates same,
little or none - nitrites 0, alkalinity 120. I have a little water
splash which I am thinking is oxygenating the water pretty well.
Water is clear - string algae is trying to emerge.
I would be REALLY surprise if someone said you have _______ and even
more surprised if they said you have a normal pond just looking too
close with the microscope. Any suggestions seperately or blanket
would sure lower my worry factor a bit.
Thanxx
Bill Brister - Austin, Texas

You really need to have the fish examined with a microscope. The flashing
action is typical of some parasites, gill flukes will cause the fish to come
out of the water to try to shake them off. The haze you see on the fish is
probably a thick slime coat, which can be caused by the irritation of the
fish by parasites. Check with your fish store and see if they can do the
checking. If not, go to www.akca.org and locate your closest koi club.
Most of them have a health hotline, a koi health advisor, or at least some
knowledgeable people that can do the microscope thing.

If the microscope proves negative, then you may just be fretting, but you
have described the typical signs of parasites.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"NewbieBill" wrote in message
om...
I feel compelled to post again before the 'turnaround' time is
complete. Hoping maybe someone can see a pattern. I am still
watching my ph and I think it is stablizing around the 7.8-8.4 mark
throughout the day. Some of the fish are cause for concern. Pretty
sure the koi is getting worse. Today I bought some slowly floating
goldfish food (bio blend). The koi was hiding. Almost as could be
expected (no discernable pattern) the let most of it to just float to
the bottom. I did not feed them anymore. I left for about 10 mins
and when I came back the koi had emerged and had found and was
scarfing up on the food. A number of the other were also but I am
sure he got more than his fair share. AFter he had rooted around and
was sure there was no more he started swimming around first normalln,
then rapidly, the then jerking and turning sideflips and finally
jumped outta the water with a loud shaking/twitching sound. Almost
sounded like a dog trying to dry off when its wet. He jerked around a
few more times and went into his cave. Came out a minute or two lately
swam around rapidly again, no twisting or jumping. Went and hid up
some plants. I came in a started composing. Just took a break and he
is still outta site.
Before and during all this I noticed four more possible abnormalities.
Actually also down with the koi eating was a rather plump (since I
bought him) fancy tail. After he had eaten he started swimming away
and didn't really get very far before he went into a sort of epileptic
fit - twiching violently and rolling around head or tail and side to
side. Looked like he had been electrocuted. He stopped and has been
acting normal since except he seems to be still bottom hunting more
than the rest. He has done this a few times, always around eating but
never so violently.
I also have a 3 inch black moor. For quite some time he has had a
white palour about him. Almost as if someone patted him in talcum
powder and when he got wet again there is just the finest white haze
on him. I have only had him about 8 weeks so I can't be sure but I'm
imagining his skin looks a little more leatherlike. Except that two
days ago he made one little break the surface leap he is and has been
acting fine.
The last is very red previously quarantined 4 inch goldfish, acquired
only about 10 days ago from a very reputable area dealer. I bought
some trade in fish from him about 10 weeks ago which were still in the
bag on the way in. Inside of a week or so they started getting
lethargic, loners and swimming around at or near the top of the water
although they didnt seem to be gasping for air. 3 of them were also
very red large comets. (Perhaps not a coincidence the koi was the
fourth fish in the bag, although his actions are entirely different)As
they were dying (I was so stupid didn't realize what was happening)
they all seemed to have this white haze around them. Almost as if
they had an extra, extra thick slimecoat and someone had mixed that
same baby powder into it. I may have even seen some tiny air bubbles
in it - not clear on that now. The new very red fish I am thinking is
starting to have that same haze, at what would be about the same
amount of time the big comets started becoming lethargic. He is not.
This haze is different than the moor because with moor the white
almost seems to be part of his skin, although he was a deeper tone
when I got him. The red comets it seems a layer just above their
scales. I have not noticed this on any other fish before or now,
although perhaps the lack of extreme contrast makes it harder to note.
The fourth is a small 2 1/2 inch lionhead. I have 2. One seems fine
the other seems to have some little cotteny little poiny warts in his
extra head growth tissue - whatever that is called.
I hope that some of these are not related and just the fact that I
am watching them all more closely since my last deaths (6-8 weeks ago)
is making me overly suggestable to possible problems. After the
deaths many of the fish did have ick which I treated, the spots went
away and all have seemed to be well. My water I think is good. Can't
be sure but my ammonia is either .25 ppm or zero. Nitrates same,
little or none - nitrites 0, alkalinity 120. I have a little water
splash which I am thinking is oxygenating the water pretty well.
Water is clear - string algae is trying to emerge.
I would be REALLY surprise if someone said you have _______ and even
more surprised if they said you have a normal pond just looking too
close with the microscope. Any suggestions seperately or blanket
would sure lower my worry factor a bit.
Thanxx
Bill Brister - Austin, Texas

You really need to have the fish examined with a microscope. The flashing
action is typical of some parasites, gill flukes will cause the fish to come
out of the water to try to shake them off. The haze you see on the fish is
probably a thick slime coat, which can be caused by the irritation of the
fish by parasites. Check with your fish store and see if they can do the
checking. If not, go to www.akca.org and locate your closest koi club.
Most of them have a health hotline, a koi health advisor, or at least some
knowledgeable people that can do the microscope thing.

If the microscope proves negative, then you may just be fretting, but you
have described the typical signs of parasites.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"NewbieBill" wrote in message
om...
I feel compelled to post again before the 'turnaround' time is
complete. Hoping maybe someone can see a pattern. I am still
watching my ph and I think it is stablizing around the 7.8-8.4 mark
throughout the day. Some of the fish are cause for concern. Pretty
sure the koi is getting worse. Today I bought some slowly floating
goldfish food (bio blend). The koi was hiding. Almost as could be
expected (no discernable pattern) the let most of it to just float to
the bottom. I did not feed them anymore. I left for about 10 mins
and when I came back the koi had emerged and had found and was
scarfing up on the food. A number of the other were also but I am
sure he got more than his fair share. AFter he had rooted around and
was sure there was no more he started swimming around first normalln,
then rapidly, the then jerking and turning sideflips and finally
jumped outta the water with a loud shaking/twitching sound. Almost
sounded like a dog trying to dry off when its wet. He jerked around a
few more times and went into his cave. Came out a minute or two lately
swam around rapidly again, no twisting or jumping. Went and hid up
some plants. I came in a started composing. Just took a break and he
is still outta site.
Before and during all this I noticed four more possible abnormalities.
Actually also down with the koi eating was a rather plump (since I
bought him) fancy tail. After he had eaten he started swimming away
and didn't really get very far before he went into a sort of epileptic
fit - twiching violently and rolling around head or tail and side to
side. Looked like he had been electrocuted. He stopped and has been
acting normal since except he seems to be still bottom hunting more
than the rest. He has done this a few times, always around eating but
never so violently.
I also have a 3 inch black moor. For quite some time he has had a
white palour about him. Almost as if someone patted him in talcum
powder and when he got wet again there is just the finest white haze
on him. I have only had him about 8 weeks so I can't be sure but I'm
imagining his skin looks a little more leatherlike. Except that two
days ago he made one little break the surface leap he is and has been
acting fine.
The last is very red previously quarantined 4 inch goldfish, acquired
only about 10 days ago from a very reputable area dealer. I bought
some trade in fish from him about 10 weeks ago which were still in the
bag on the way in. Inside of a week or so they started getting
lethargic, loners and swimming around at or near the top of the water
although they didnt seem to be gasping for air. 3 of them were also
very red large comets. (Perhaps not a coincidence the koi was the
fourth fish in the bag, although his actions are entirely different)As
they were dying (I was so stupid didn't realize what was happening)
they all seemed to have this white haze around them. Almost as if
they had an extra, extra thick slimecoat and someone had mixed that
same baby powder into it. I may have even seen some tiny air bubbles
in it - not clear on that now. The new very red fish I am thinking is
starting to have that same haze, at what would be about the same
amount of time the big comets started becoming lethargic. He is not.
This haze is different than the moor because with moor the white
almost seems to be part of his skin, although he was a deeper tone
when I got him. The red comets it seems a layer just above their
scales. I have not noticed this on any other fish before or now,
although perhaps the lack of extreme contrast makes it harder to note.
The fourth is a small 2 1/2 inch lionhead. I have 2. One seems fine
the other seems to have some little cotteny little poiny warts in his
extra head growth tissue - whatever that is called.
I hope that some of these are not related and just the fact that I
am watching them all more closely since my last deaths (6-8 weeks ago)
is making me overly suggestable to possible problems. After the
deaths many of the fish did have ick which I treated, the spots went
away and all have seemed to be well. My water I think is good. Can't
be sure but my ammonia is either .25 ppm or zero. Nitrates same,
little or none - nitrites 0, alkalinity 120. I have a little water
splash which I am thinking is oxygenating the water pretty well.
Water is clear - string algae is trying to emerge.
I would be REALLY surprise if someone said you have _______ and even
more surprised if they said you have a normal pond just looking too
close with the microscope. Any suggestions seperately or blanket
would sure lower my worry factor a bit.
Thanxx
Bill Brister - Austin, Texas

Another resource for you is www.koivet.com .

If you can reach roark please do so! He is terrific.

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"RichToyBox" wrote in message
news:izmcc.194154$Cb.1739748@attbi_s51...
You really need to have the fish examined with a microscope. The flashing
action is typical of some parasites, gill flukes will cause the fish to
come
out of the water to try to shake them off. The haze you see on the fish
is
probably a thick slime coat, which can be caused by the irritation of the
fish by parasites. Check with your fish store and see if they can do the
checking. If not, go to www.akca.org and locate your closest koi club.
Most of them have a health hotline, a koi health advisor, or at least some
knowledgeable people that can do the microscope thing.

If the microscope proves negative, then you may just be fretting, but you
have described the typical signs of parasites.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"NewbieBill" wrote in message
om...
I feel compelled to post again before the 'turnaround' time is
complete. Hoping maybe someone can see a pattern. I am still
watching my ph and I think it is stablizing around the 7.8-8.4 mark
throughout the day. Some of the fish are cause for concern. Pretty
sure the koi is getting worse. Today I bought some slowly floating
goldfish food (bio blend). The koi was hiding. Almost as could be
expected (no discernable pattern) the let most of it to just float to
the bottom. I did not feed them anymore. I left for about 10 mins
and when I came back the koi had emerged and had found and was
scarfing up on the food. A number of the other were also but I am
sure he got more than his fair share. AFter he had rooted around and
was sure there was no more he started swimming around first normalln,
then rapidly, the then jerking and turning sideflips and finally
jumped outta the water with a loud shaking/twitching sound. Almost
sounded like a dog trying to dry off when its wet. He jerked around a
few more times and went into his cave. Came out a minute or two lately
swam around rapidly again, no twisting or jumping. Went and hid up
some plants. I came in a started composing. Just took a break and he
is still outta site.
Before and during all this I noticed four more possible abnormalities.
Actually also down with the koi eating was a rather plump (since I
bought him) fancy tail. After he had eaten he started swimming away
and didn't really get very far before he went into a sort of epileptic
fit - twiching violently and rolling around head or tail and side to
side. Looked like he had been electrocuted. He stopped and has been
acting normal since except he seems to be still bottom hunting more
than the rest. He has done this a few times, always around eating but
never so violently.
I also have a 3 inch black moor. For quite some time he has had a
white palour about him. Almost as if someone patted him in talcum
powder and when he got wet again there is just the finest white haze
on him. I have only had him about 8 weeks so I can't be sure but I'm
imagining his skin looks a little more leatherlike. Except that two
days ago he made one little break the surface leap he is and has been
acting fine.
The last is very red previously quarantined 4 inch goldfish, acquired
only about 10 days ago from a very reputable area dealer. I bought
some trade in fish from him about 10 weeks ago which were still in the
bag on the way in. Inside of a week or so they started getting
lethargic, loners and swimming around at or near the top of the water
although they didnt seem to be gasping for air. 3 of them were also
very red large comets. (Perhaps not a coincidence the koi was the
fourth fish in the bag, although his actions are entirely different)As
they were dying (I was so stupid didn't realize what was happening)
they all seemed to have this white haze around them. Almost as if
they had an extra, extra thick slimecoat and someone had mixed that
same baby powder into it. I may have even seen some tiny air bubbles
in it - not clear on that now. The new very red fish I am thinking is
starting to have that same haze, at what would be about the same
amount of time the big comets started becoming lethargic. He is not.
This haze is different than the moor because with moor the white
almost seems to be part of his skin, although he was a deeper tone
when I got him. The red comets it seems a layer just above their
scales. I have not noticed this on any other fish before or now,
although perhaps the lack of extreme contrast makes it harder to note.
The fourth is a small 2 1/2 inch lionhead. I have 2. One seems fine
the other seems to have some little cotteny little poiny warts in his
extra head growth tissue - whatever that is called.
I hope that some of these are not related and just the fact that I
am watching them all more closely since my last deaths (6-8 weeks ago)
is making me overly suggestable to possible problems. After the
deaths many of the fish did have ick which I treated, the spots went
away and all have seemed to be well. My water I think is good. Can't
be sure but my ammonia is either .25 ppm or zero. Nitrates same,
little or none - nitrites 0, alkalinity 120. I have a little water
splash which I am thinking is oxygenating the water pretty well.
Water is clear - string algae is trying to emerge.
I would be REALLY surprise if someone said you have _______ and even
more surprised if they said you have a normal pond just looking too
close with the microscope. Any suggestions seperately or blanket
would sure lower my worry factor a bit.
Thanxx
Bill Brister - Austin, Texas

Another resource for you is www.koivet.com .

If you can reach roark please do so! He is terrific.

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"RichToyBox" wrote in message
news:izmcc.194154$Cb.1739748@attbi_s51...
You really need to have the fish examined with a microscope. The flashing
action is typical of some parasites, gill flukes will cause the fish to
come
out of the water to try to shake them off. The haze you see on the fish
is
probably a thick slime coat, which can be caused by the irritation of the
fish by parasites. Check with your fish store and see if they can do the
checking. If not, go to www.akca.org and locate your closest koi club.
Most of them have a health hotline, a koi health advisor, or at least some
knowledgeable people that can do the microscope thing.

If the microscope proves negative, then you may just be fretting, but you
have described the typical signs of parasites.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"NewbieBill" wrote in message
om...
I feel compelled to post again before the 'turnaround' time is
complete. Hoping maybe someone can see a pattern. I am still
watching my ph and I think it is stablizing around the 7.8-8.4 mark
throughout the day. Some of the fish are cause for concern. Pretty
sure the koi is getting worse. Today I bought some slowly floating
goldfish food (bio blend). The koi was hiding. Almost as could be
expected (no discernable pattern) the let most of it to just float to
the bottom. I did not feed them anymore. I left for about 10 mins
and when I came back the koi had emerged and had found and was
scarfing up on the food. A number of the other were also but I am
sure he got more than his fair share. AFter he had rooted around and
was sure there was no more he started swimming around first normalln,
then rapidly, the then jerking and turning sideflips and finally
jumped outta the water with a loud shaking/twitching sound. Almost
sounded like a dog trying to dry off when its wet. He jerked around a
few more times and went into his cave. Came out a minute or two lately
swam around rapidly again, no twisting or jumping. Went and hid up
some plants. I came in a started composing. Just took a break and he
is still outta site.
Before and during all this I noticed four more possible abnormalities.
Actually also down with the koi eating was a rather plump (since I
bought him) fancy tail. After he had eaten he started swimming away
and didn't really get very far before he went into a sort of epileptic
fit - twiching violently and rolling around head or tail and side to
side. Looked like he had been electrocuted. He stopped and has been
acting normal since except he seems to be still bottom hunting more
than the rest. He has done this a few times, always around eating but
never so violently.
I also have a 3 inch black moor. For quite some time he has had a
white palour about him. Almost as if someone patted him in talcum
powder and when he got wet again there is just the finest white haze
on him. I have only had him about 8 weeks so I can't be sure but I'm
imagining his skin looks a little more leatherlike. Except that two
days ago he made one little break the surface leap he is and has been
acting fine.
The last is very red previously quarantined 4 inch goldfish, acquired
only about 10 days ago from a very reputable area dealer. I bought
some trade in fish from him about 10 weeks ago which were still in the
bag on the way in. Inside of a week or so they started getting
lethargic, loners and swimming around at or near the top of the water
although they didnt seem to be gasping for air. 3 of them were also
very red large comets. (Perhaps not a coincidence the koi was the
fourth fish in the bag, although his actions are entirely different)As
they were dying (I was so stupid didn't realize what was happening)
they all seemed to have this white haze around them. Almost as if
they had an extra, extra thick slimecoat and someone had mixed that
same baby powder into it. I may have even seen some tiny air bubbles
in it - not clear on that now. The new very red fish I am thinking is
starting to have that same haze, at what would be about the same
amount of time the big comets started becoming lethargic. He is not.
This haze is different than the moor because with moor the white
almost seems to be part of his skin, although he was a deeper tone
when I got him. The red comets it seems a layer just above their
scales. I have not noticed this on any other fish before or now,
although perhaps the lack of extreme contrast makes it harder to note.
The fourth is a small 2 1/2 inch lionhead. I have 2. One seems fine
the other seems to have some little cotteny little poiny warts in his
extra head growth tissue - whatever that is called.
I hope that some of these are not related and just the fact that I
am watching them all more closely since my last deaths (6-8 weeks ago)
is making me overly suggestable to possible problems. After the
deaths many of the fish did have ick which I treated, the spots went
away and all have seemed to be well. My water I think is good. Can't
be sure but my ammonia is either .25 ppm or zero. Nitrates same,
little or none - nitrites 0, alkalinity 120. I have a little water
splash which I am thinking is oxygenating the water pretty well.
Water is clear - string algae is trying to emerge.
I would be REALLY surprise if someone said you have _______ and even
more surprised if they said you have a normal pond just looking too
close with the microscope. Any suggestions seperately or blanket
would sure lower my worry factor a bit.
Thanxx
Bill Brister - Austin, Texas

Where is your pump? Submersible? Some of what you describe almost sounds
like electrical leakage. Erratic swimming, torpedo-ing, etc. can also be
indicative of neurotoxin poisoning (any pesticides used nearby?) The "haze"
around your GF: is it a fungus infection? It sounds like you may have more
than one thing going on, but none of it sounds good. So sorry.

Lee



"NewbieBill" wrote in message
om...
I feel compelled to post again before the 'turnaround' time is
complete. Hoping maybe someone can see a pattern. I am still
watching my ph and I think it is stablizing around the 7.8-8.4 mark
throughout the day. Some of the fish are cause for concern. Pretty
sure the koi is getting worse. Today I bought some slowly floating
goldfish food (bio blend). The koi was hiding. Almost as could be
expected (no discernable pattern) the let most of it to just float to
the bottom. I did not feed them anymore. I left for about 10 mins
and when I came back the koi had emerged and had found and was
scarfing up on the food. A number of the other were also but I am
sure he got more than his fair share. AFter he had rooted around and
was sure there was no more he started swimming around first normalln,
then rapidly, the then jerking and turning sideflips and finally
jumped outta the water with a loud shaking/twitching sound. Almost
sounded like a dog trying to dry off when its wet. He jerked around a
few more times and went into his cave. Came out a minute or two lately
swam around rapidly again, no twisting or jumping. Went and hid up
some plants. I came in a started composing. Just took a break and he
is still outta site.
Before and during all this I noticed four more possible abnormalities.
Actually also down with the koi eating was a rather plump (since I
bought him) fancy tail. After he had eaten he started swimming away
and didn't really get very far before he went into a sort of epileptic
fit - twiching violently and rolling around head or tail and side to
side. Looked like he had been electrocuted. He stopped and has been
acting normal since except he seems to be still bottom hunting more
than the rest. He has done this a few times, always around eating but
never so violently.
I also have a 3 inch black moor. For quite some time he has had a
white palour about him. Almost as if someone patted him in talcum
powder and when he got wet again there is just the finest white haze
on him. I have only had him about 8 weeks so I can't be sure but I'm
imagining his skin looks a little more leatherlike. Except that two
days ago he made one little break the surface leap he is and has been
acting fine.
The last is very red previously quarantined 4 inch goldfish, acquired
only about 10 days ago from a very reputable area dealer. I bought
some trade in fish from him about 10 weeks ago which were still in the
bag on the way in. Inside of a week or so they started getting
lethargic, loners and swimming around at or near the top of the water
although they didnt seem to be gasping for air. 3 of them were also
very red large comets. (Perhaps not a coincidence the koi was the
fourth fish in the bag, although his actions are entirely different)As
they were dying (I was so stupid didn't realize what was happening)
they all seemed to have this white haze around them. Almost as if
they had an extra, extra thick slimecoat and someone had mixed that
same baby powder into it. I may have even seen some tiny air bubbles
in it - not clear on that now. The new very red fish I am thinking is
starting to have that same haze, at what would be about the same
amount of time the big comets started becoming lethargic. He is not.
This haze is different than the moor because with moor the white
almost seems to be part of his skin, although he was a deeper tone
when I got him. The red comets it seems a layer just above their
scales. I have not noticed this on any other fish before or now,
although perhaps the lack of extreme contrast makes it harder to note.
The fourth is a small 2 1/2 inch lionhead. I have 2. One seems fine
the other seems to have some little cotteny little poiny warts in his
extra head growth tissue - whatever that is called.
I hope that some of these are not related and just the fact that I
am watching them all more closely since my last deaths (6-8 weeks ago)
is making me overly suggestable to possible problems. After the
deaths many of the fish did have ick which I treated, the spots went
away and all have seemed to be well. My water I think is good. Can't
be sure but my ammonia is either .25 ppm or zero. Nitrates same,
little or none - nitrites 0, alkalinity 120. I have a little water
splash which I am thinking is oxygenating the water pretty well.
Water is clear - string algae is trying to emerge.
I would be REALLY surprise if someone said you have _______ and even
more surprised if they said you have a normal pond just looking too
close with the microscope. Any suggestions seperately or blanket
would sure lower my worry factor a bit.
Thanxx
Bill Brister - Austin, Texas

Where is your pump? Submersible? Some of what you describe almost sounds
like electrical leakage. Erratic swimming, torpedo-ing, etc. can also be
indicative of neurotoxin poisoning (any pesticides used nearby?) The "haze"
around your GF: is it a fungus infection? It sounds like you may have more
than one thing going on, but none of it sounds good. So sorry.

Lee



"NewbieBill" wrote in message
om...
I feel compelled to post again before the 'turnaround' time is
complete. Hoping maybe someone can see a pattern. I am still
watching my ph and I think it is stablizing around the 7.8-8.4 mark
throughout the day. Some of the fish are cause for concern. Pretty
sure the koi is getting worse. Today I bought some slowly floating
goldfish food (bio blend). The koi was hiding. Almost as could be
expected (no discernable pattern) the let most of it to just float to
the bottom. I did not feed them anymore. I left for about 10 mins
and when I came back the koi had emerged and had found and was
scarfing up on the food. A number of the other were also but I am
sure he got more than his fair share. AFter he had rooted around and
was sure there was no more he started swimming around first normalln,
then rapidly, the then jerking and turning sideflips and finally
jumped outta the water with a loud shaking/twitching sound. Almost
sounded like a dog trying to dry off when its wet. He jerked around a
few more times and went into his cave. Came out a minute or two lately
swam around rapidly again, no twisting or jumping. Went and hid up
some plants. I came in a started composing. Just took a break and he
is still outta site.
Before and during all this I noticed four more possible abnormalities.
Actually also down with the koi eating was a rather plump (since I
bought him) fancy tail. After he had eaten he started swimming away
and didn't really get very far before he went into a sort of epileptic
fit - twiching violently and rolling around head or tail and side to
side. Looked like he had been electrocuted. He stopped and has been
acting normal since except he seems to be still bottom hunting more
than the rest. He has done this a few times, always around eating but
never so violently.
I also have a 3 inch black moor. For quite some time he has had a
white palour about him. Almost as if someone patted him in talcum
powder and when he got wet again there is just the finest white haze
on him. I have only had him about 8 weeks so I can't be sure but I'm
imagining his skin looks a little more leatherlike. Except that two
days ago he made one little break the surface leap he is and has been
acting fine.
The last is very red previously quarantined 4 inch goldfish, acquired
only about 10 days ago from a very reputable area dealer. I bought
some trade in fish from him about 10 weeks ago which were still in the
bag on the way in. Inside of a week or so they started getting
lethargic, loners and swimming around at or near the top of the water
although they didnt seem to be gasping for air. 3 of them were also
very red large comets. (Perhaps not a coincidence the koi was the
fourth fish in the bag, although his actions are entirely different)As
they were dying (I was so stupid didn't realize what was happening)
they all seemed to have this white haze around them. Almost as if
they had an extra, extra thick slimecoat and someone had mixed that
same baby powder into it. I may have even seen some tiny air bubbles
in it - not clear on that now. The new very red fish I am thinking is
starting to have that same haze, at what would be about the same
amount of time the big comets started becoming lethargic. He is not.
This haze is different than the moor because with moor the white
almost seems to be part of his skin, although he was a deeper tone
when I got him. The red comets it seems a layer just above their
scales. I have not noticed this on any other fish before or now,
although perhaps the lack of extreme contrast makes it harder to note.
The fourth is a small 2 1/2 inch lionhead. I have 2. One seems fine
the other seems to have some little cotteny little poiny warts in his
extra head growth tissue - whatever that is called.
I hope that some of these are not related and just the fact that I
am watching them all more closely since my last deaths (6-8 weeks ago)
is making me overly suggestable to possible problems. After the
deaths many of the fish did have ick which I treated, the spots went
away and all have seemed to be well. My water I think is good. Can't
be sure but my ammonia is either .25 ppm or zero. Nitrates same,
little or none - nitrites 0, alkalinity 120. I have a little water
splash which I am thinking is oxygenating the water pretty well.
Water is clear - string algae is trying to emerge.
I would be REALLY surprise if someone said you have _______ and even
more surprised if they said you have a normal pond just looking too
close with the microscope. Any suggestions seperately or blanket
would sure lower my worry factor a bit.
Thanxx
Bill Brister - Austin, Texas

From the get-go, I second RTB's advice, check the AKCA.com site & see if
you can locate a KHA in your area. Otherwise, my guesses/comments below:

On 5 Apr 2004 16:42:16 -0700, (NewbieBill) wrote:

fish did have ick which I treated
My water I think is good.
Can't be sure
ammonia is either .25 ppm or zero.
Nitrates same,
nitrites 0,
alkalinity 120.
I have a little water splash oxygenating the water pretty well.
Water is clear - string algae is trying to emerge.

The above info is what helps us the most. Then the fish behavior.

I would be REALLY surprise if someone said you have _______

Me too. ;o)

and even more surprised if they said you have a normal pond

We all wish for that.

just looking too close with the microscope.

Not close enough, as RTB suggested. ;o)

Any suggestions seperately or blanket
would sure lower my worry factor a bit.

My suggestion would be to really know your water quality numbers. Fix the
ammonia with a binder (Amquel, ChoramX).

Shot gun approach: Salt the pond. 0.9 lbs per 100 gallons for 0.1% and go
up to 0.3% slowly, use the water volume calculator on www.click2roark.com
to get an more accurate measure of your gallons. Some plants are salt
sensitive and may have to be removed during this treatment, you can put
them in a kiddy pool and treat them with PP or formalin.

Report what you decide to do, outcome, etc., here, so we all learn from
you. ~ jan

See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

From the get-go, I second RTB's advice, check the AKCA.com site & see if
you can locate a KHA in your area. Otherwise, my guesses/comments below:

On 5 Apr 2004 16:42:16 -0700, (NewbieBill) wrote:

fish did have ick which I treated
My water I think is good.
Can't be sure
ammonia is either .25 ppm or zero.
Nitrates same,
nitrites 0,
alkalinity 120.
I have a little water splash oxygenating the water pretty well.
Water is clear - string algae is trying to emerge.

The above info is what helps us the most. Then the fish behavior.

I would be REALLY surprise if someone said you have _______

Me too. ;o)

and even more surprised if they said you have a normal pond

We all wish for that.

just looking too close with the microscope.

Not close enough, as RTB suggested. ;o)

Any suggestions seperately or blanket
would sure lower my worry factor a bit.

My suggestion would be to really know your water quality numbers. Fix the
ammonia with a binder (Amquel, ChoramX).

Shot gun approach: Salt the pond. 0.9 lbs per 100 gallons for 0.1% and go
up to 0.3% slowly, use the water volume calculator on www.click2roark.com
to get an more accurate measure of your gallons. Some plants are salt
sensitive and may have to be removed during this treatment, you can put
them in a kiddy pool and treat them with PP or formalin.

Report what you decide to do, outcome, etc., here, so we all learn from
you. ~ jan

See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website