Question about Changing Water

Hi. I had a 55 gallon tank many years ago set up for marine fish. I
recently took it out of the garage and got it ready for tropical fish. I've
been reading up all the great info in newsgroups and the net in general, but
there is one thing about changing water that I don't see addressed.

I'm seeing that approximately 20% of the water should be changed every, say,
2 weeks. For me, this means about 10 gallons each time. This seems awfully
difficult to achieve without killing anything in the process. How do you
handle this volume of water? There is a bathroom about 15 feet from the
tank, and I could see siphoning the water out without much problem, but
getting the fresh water back in is more of a problem. The issues I am not
sure about are 1) 10 gallons is a lot of buckets to mess with, is there a
better way? 2) the room temperature is much lower than the tank water, which
is about 77F, 3) do most people dechlorinate chemically rather than letting
it stand for a day? If I let the water stand, then it will be too cold. If
I use chemical treatment, can I use hot and cold water to adjust the temp?

Also, it seems like these large water changes are a little excessive. When
I was a teenager I did minimal (very minimal) and the fish lived for years.
My angles grew very large in their 29 gallon tank, ate well, and even layed
eggs. It didn't seem like they were stressed. Maybe I just had ultra hardy
fish, but I did have live plants, so maybe that helped.

Thanks for any suggestions,
dwhite

Your question about water changes can almost be summed up with one word:
Python.
I used the bucket/siphon/wet carpet method for my 20, 40 and 100 freshwater
tanks for years before I got a Python for my birthday.
Doing a 20% water change directly to the tank and then treating chemically
for a de-chlorination (I use Amquel) right after the tank has worked well
for me. I do lean to add just a bit more Amquel than needed through just to
capture any major fluxuations my tap may have.

Keep in mind that most municipalities use Chloramine rather than Chlorine.
Chloramine will stick around a lot longer than Chlorine will and not all
de-chlorinators treat for both chlorine and chloramine.

I just adjust the tap for temperture control however my tanks have a high
rate of water circulation and my heaters are set up in a manner that they
can still function with the water at about half tank. Therefore, I don't
need to shut down my circulation or my heater during the water changes.
Which means that I have more flexibility with the water temp coming out of
the tap.

Also, I too have found that live plants go along way in improving the health
of the fish and tank.
Justin


"Dan White" wrote in message
et...
Hi. I had a 55 gallon tank many years ago set up for marine fish. I
recently took it out of the garage and got it ready for tropical fish.
I've
been reading up all the great info in newsgroups and the net in general,
but
there is one thing about changing water that I don't see addressed.

I'm seeing that approximately 20% of the water should be changed every,
say,
2 weeks. For me, this means about 10 gallons each time. This seems
awfully
difficult to achieve without killing anything in the process. How do you
handle this volume of water? There is a bathroom about 15 feet from the
tank, and I could see siphoning the water out without much problem, but
getting the fresh water back in is more of a problem. The issues I am not
sure about are 1) 10 gallons is a lot of buckets to mess with, is there a
better way? 2) the room temperature is much lower than the tank water,
which
is about 77F, 3) do most people dechlorinate chemically rather than
letting
it stand for a day? If I let the water stand, then it will be too cold.
If
I use chemical treatment, can I use hot and cold water to adjust the temp?

Also, it seems like these large water changes are a little excessive.
When
I was a teenager I did minimal (very minimal) and the fish lived for
years.
My angles grew very large in their 29 gallon tank, ate well, and even
layed
eggs. It didn't seem like they were stressed. Maybe I just had ultra
hardy
fish, but I did have live plants, so maybe that helped.

Thanks for any suggestions,
dwhite

"Dan White" wrote in message
et...
Hi. I had a 55 gallon tank many years ago set up for marine fish. I
recently took it out of the garage and got it ready for tropical fish.
I've
been reading up all the great info in newsgroups and the net in general,
but
there is one thing about changing water that I don't see addressed.


I can only tell you how *I* do my freshwater tanks- I keep a planted Discus
tank and a Fancy Goldfish tank, and I do both the same way.
I siphon water out with a long piece of one inch tubing- one tank gets
siphoned out a window to the backyard, the other goes out a door to a
flowerbed. Then I drag a plain old garden hose in through whichever
window/door I am using and turn it on in the tank. I add Prime as the tank
is filling.

That's it.
So much for Discus being difficult.

I am blessed with very warm groundwater due to my climate. If it gets very
cold I will draw out water into a dedicated garbage can and heat it with an
aquarium heater overnight, then pump it into the tank with a small water
pump.
I found the Python to be the biggest PIA I ever ran into- I cut it up and
made plain siphon hoses out of it.

I really think that the simpler you keep your process the more likely you
will do it often- I do all my tanks once per week. And as you can see- even
the most finicky fish will likely adjust to your local water.


--
Toni
http://www.cearbhaill.com/discus.htm

"Toni" wrote in message
...

"Dan White" wrote in message
et...
Hi. I had a 55 gallon tank many years ago set up for marine fish. I
recently took it out of the garage and got it ready for tropical fish.
I've
been reading up all the great info in newsgroups and the net in general,
but
there is one thing about changing water that I don't see addressed.


I can only tell you how *I* do my freshwater tanks- I keep a planted
Discus
tank and a Fancy Goldfish tank, and I do both the same way.
I siphon water out with a long piece of one inch tubing- one tank gets
siphoned out a window to the backyard, the other goes out a door to a
flowerbed. Then I drag a plain old garden hose in through whichever
window/door I am using and turn it on in the tank. I add Prime as the tank
is filling.

That's it.
So much for Discus being difficult.

I am blessed with very warm groundwater due to my climate. If it gets very
cold I will draw out water into a dedicated garbage can and heat it with
an
aquarium heater overnight, then pump it into the tank with a small water
pump.
I found the Python to be the biggest PIA I ever ran into- I cut it up and
made plain siphon hoses out of it.

I really think that the simpler you keep your process the more likely you
will do it often- I do all my tanks once per week. And as you can see-
even
the most finicky fish will likely adjust to your local water.


--
Toni
http://www.cearbhaill.com/discus.htm



Toni,

The discus tank is absolutely beautiful. They look awesome in there. And I'm
amazed at your excellent photography, too! Nice work.

Mary

Dan White wrote:

Hi. I had a 55 gallon tank many years ago set up for marine fish. I
recently took it out of the garage and got it ready for tropical fish. I've
been reading up all the great info in newsgroups and the net in general, but
there is one thing about changing water that I don't see addressed.

I'm seeing that approximately 20% of the water should be changed every, say,
2 weeks. For me, this means about 10 gallons each time. This seems awfully
difficult to achieve without killing anything in the process. How do you
handle this volume of water? There is a bathroom about 15 feet from the
tank, and I could see siphoning the water out without much problem, but
getting the fresh water back in is more of a problem. The issues I am not
sure about are 1) 10 gallons is a lot of buckets to mess with, is there a
better way? 2) the room temperature is much lower than the tank water, which
is about 77F, 3) do most people dechlorinate chemically rather than letting
it stand for a day? If I let the water stand, then it will be too cold. If
I use chemical treatment, can I use hot and cold water to adjust the temp?

Also, it seems like these large water changes are a little excessive. When
I was a teenager I did minimal (very minimal) and the fish lived for years.
My angles grew very large in their 29 gallon tank, ate well, and even layed
eggs. It didn't seem like they were stressed. Maybe I just had ultra hardy
fish, but I did have live plants, so maybe that helped.

Thanks for any suggestions,
dwhite



I plan to do 20% every week in my new 55.

Given the rock work I'll have in the tank, two 5 gallon buckets should
handle the incoming water (will actually be more than 20%), the outgoing
water will siphon to the water drain in my basement where the tank is
located.

I plan to purchase two cheapie Wal-Mart or whatever smallest heaters I
can find. I will plug those up, set the right temp, drop the cheapest
powerhead I can find into each one, treat with Amquel, raise pH, and let
them sit a week till the next water change keeping warm and circulating.
The water will then be pre-treated, warm, and damned well oxygenated.

Then, those cheapie powerheads will pump the buckets into the tank with
the little bit left being poured in. Temp won't be a problem. I have
to do it this way since I live in MN and tap water gets danged cold all
the time. I also have a whole house water softener so I have to get my
water from either outside or the kitchen sink cold tap....those are the
unsoftened outlets. Outside in MN in the winter is out of the question
so I have to get cold from inside...and it's REALLLY cold in January ;-)
The two cheapie heaters will be required.

That's my plan, and my 2c.

-Keith

"Justin Boucher" wrote in message
news
Your question about water changes can almost be summed up with one word:
Python.
I used the bucket/siphon/wet carpet method for my 20, 40 and 100
freshwater
tanks for years before I got a Python for my birthday.
Doing a 20% water change directly to the tank and then treating chemically
for a de-chlorination (I use Amquel) right after the tank has worked well
for me. I do lean to add just a bit more Amquel than needed through just
to
capture any major fluxuations my tap may have.


I'll have to check into that Python. Are you saying that you dump tap water
straight from the tap into your tank, and then dechlorinate the whole thank
with Amquel? That's pretty amazing if that's what you are doing. I
wouldn't have guessed you could get away with that!

Thanks to the others who responded.

dwhite

"Keith Hatfull" wrote in message
...
Dan White wrote:

Hi. I had a 55 gallon tank many years ago set up for marine fish. I
recently took it out of the garage and got it ready for tropical
fish. I've
been reading up all the great info in newsgroups and the net in
general, but
there is one thing about changing water that I don't see addressed.

I'm seeing that approximately 20% of the water should be changed
every, say,
2 weeks. For me, this means about 10 gallons each time. This seems
awfully
difficult to achieve without killing anything in the process. How do
you
handle this volume of water? There is a bathroom about 15 feet from
the
tank, and I could see siphoning the water out without much problem,
but
getting the fresh water back in is more of a problem. The issues I
am not
sure about are 1) 10 gallons is a lot of buckets to mess with, is
there a
better way? 2) the room temperature is much lower than the tank
water, which
is about 77F, 3) do most people dechlorinate chemically rather than
letting
it stand for a day? If I let the water stand, then it will be too
cold. If
I use chemical treatment, can I use hot and cold water to adjust the
temp?

Also, it seems like these large water changes are a little excessive.
When
I was a teenager I did minimal (very minimal) and the fish lived for
years.
My angles grew very large in their 29 gallon tank, ate well, and even
layed
eggs. It didn't seem like they were stressed. Maybe I just had
ultra hardy
fish, but I did have live plants, so maybe that helped.

Thanks for any suggestions,
dwhite



I plan to do 20% every week in my new 55.

Given the rock work I'll have in the tank, two 5 gallon buckets should
handle the incoming water (will actually be more than 20%), the
outgoing
water will siphon to the water drain in my basement where the tank is
located.

I plan to purchase two cheapie Wal-Mart or whatever smallest heaters I
can find. I will plug those up, set the right temp, drop the cheapest
powerhead I can find into each one, treat with Amquel, raise pH, and
let
them sit a week till the next water change keeping warm and
circulating.
The water will then be pre-treated, warm, and damned well oxygenated.

Then, those cheapie powerheads will pump the buckets into the tank with
the little bit left being poured in. Temp won't be a problem. I have
to do it this way since I live in MN and tap water gets danged cold all
the time. I also have a whole house water softener so I have to get my
water from either outside or the kitchen sink cold tap....those are the
unsoftened outlets. Outside in MN in the winter is out of the question
so I have to get cold from inside...and it's REALLLY cold in January
;-)
The two cheapie heaters will be required.

That's my plan, and my 2c.

-Keith

I also worry about my well water being too cold and having dissolved
gases in it. What has been working for me is to keep to smaller changes
done more often, and keeping live plants. I find that I can do a 15%
change without any trouble (Canadian winter ice cold water from before
the softener).
--
www.NetMax.tk

Yes. That's how it works. Just did one day before yesterday in fact. I
love watching the oxygen stream off the live plants after a good water
change. It's amaizing how fine the bubbles are and they seem to only be
coming off of one particular spot on the leaf.

I only worry about major water changes like 50%. The amount of chloramine,
pH and temp shock could be a bit too much. I much rather do lots of smaller
water changes over a short period of time. Keep in mind that my system is
still running while I'm doing the changes. I don't need to shut down the
pumps or the heater, so the new tap water doesn't pool in one spot. It
quickly gets disbursed and dissolved among the tank water.

Justin

"Dan White" wrote in message
et...
"Justin Boucher" wrote in message
news
Your question about water changes can almost be summed up with one word:
Python.
I used the bucket/siphon/wet carpet method for my 20, 40 and 100
freshwater
tanks for years before I got a Python for my birthday.
Doing a 20% water change directly to the tank and then treating
chemically
for a de-chlorination (I use Amquel) right after the tank has worked
well
for me. I do lean to add just a bit more Amquel than needed through
just
to
capture any major fluxuations my tap may have.


I'll have to check into that Python. Are you saying that you dump tap
water
straight from the tap into your tank, and then dechlorinate the whole
thank
with Amquel? That's pretty amazing if that's what you are doing. I
wouldn't have guessed you could get away with that!

Thanks to the others who responded.

dwhite

"Justin Boucher" wrote in message
...
Yes. That's how it works. Just did one day before yesterday in fact. I
love watching the oxygen stream off the live plants after a good water
change. It's amaizing how fine the bubbles are and they seem to only be
coming off of one particular spot on the leaf.

I only worry about major water changes like 50%. The amount of
chloramine,
pH and temp shock could be a bit too much. I much rather do lots of
smaller
water changes over a short period of time. Keep in mind that my system is
still running while I'm doing the changes. I don't need to shut down the
pumps or the heater, so the new tap water doesn't pool in one spot. It
quickly gets disbursed and dissolved among the tank water.

Justin

One last thing, Justin. When you add Amquel, you are using a dose
appropriate for the 20% of fresh water (or a little more than needed) after
it has mixed with the rest of the tank. Does the Amquel work well enough in
such a dilute state to be able to get at all the chlorine/chloramines? Have
you ever tested your tank water before and after adding Amquel to see what
happens to the chlorine levels?

dwhite




"Dan White" wrote in message
et...
"Justin Boucher" wrote in message
news
Your question about water changes can almost be summed up with one
word:
Python.
I used the bucket/siphon/wet carpet method for my 20, 40 and 100
freshwater
tanks for years before I got a Python for my birthday.
Doing a 20% water change directly to the tank and then treating
chemically
for a de-chlorination (I use Amquel) right after the tank has worked
well
for me. I do lean to add just a bit more Amquel than needed through
just
to
capture any major fluxuations my tap may have.


I'll have to check into that Python. Are you saying that you dump tap
water
straight from the tap into your tank, and then dechlorinate the whole
thank
with Amquel? That's pretty amazing if that's what you are doing. I
wouldn't have guessed you could get away with that!

Thanks to the others who responded.

dwhite

I've never had a chlorine or chloramine tester so I wouldn't be able to
compare the difference.

I do overdose the tank immediately after the refill with Amquel. I'll
usually add a extra dose or two. If the 20% change needed a 20ml dose of
Amquel, I'll most likely add 30ml. Since Amquel is a chemical agent
designed to convert chloramine and chlorine, it will disburse through the
water column until either all the chlorine agents are consumed or all the
Amquel is used. I've even seen an LFS owner put an entire 16oz bottle in a
20 gal (stocked at LFS retail levels) just to see if it is harmful to the
fish. Not a single fish died or showed any adverse reactions even after
several days..

Occasionally, I will even add the Amquel while the Python is filling the
tank. I just add enough Amquel to cover the full water change.
Justin

"Dan White" wrote in message
et...
"Justin Boucher" wrote in message
...
Yes. That's how it works. Just did one day before yesterday in fact.
I
love watching the oxygen stream off the live plants after a good water
change. It's amaizing how fine the bubbles are and they seem to only be
coming off of one particular spot on the leaf.

I only worry about major water changes like 50%. The amount of
chloramine,
pH and temp shock could be a bit too much. I much rather do lots of
smaller
water changes over a short period of time. Keep in mind that my system
is
still running while I'm doing the changes. I don't need to shut down
the
pumps or the heater, so the new tap water doesn't pool in one spot. It
quickly gets disbursed and dissolved among the tank water.

Justin

One last thing, Justin. When you add Amquel, you are using a dose
appropriate for the 20% of fresh water (or a little more than needed)
after
it has mixed with the rest of the tank. Does the Amquel work well enough
in
such a dilute state to be able to get at all the chlorine/chloramines?
Have
you ever tested your tank water before and after adding Amquel to see what
happens to the chlorine levels?

dwhite




"Dan White" wrote in message
et...
"Justin Boucher" wrote in message
news Your question about water changes can almost be summed up with one
word:
Python.
I used the bucket/siphon/wet carpet method for my 20, 40 and 100
freshwater
tanks for years before I got a Python for my birthday.
Doing a 20% water change directly to the tank and then treating
chemically
for a de-chlorination (I use Amquel) right after the tank has worked
well
for me. I do lean to add just a bit more Amquel than needed through
just
to
capture any major fluxuations my tap may have.


I'll have to check into that Python. Are you saying that you dump tap
water
straight from the tap into your tank, and then dechlorinate the whole
thank
with Amquel? That's pretty amazing if that's what you are doing. I
wouldn't have guessed you could get away with that!

Thanks to the others who responded.

dwhite