Goldfish and Fantail sitting on bottom not feeding - HELP

Szaki wrote:
PetsMart sells or can be bought on line, water testing kits. One I like, has
5 small pads on it, (Quick Dip 5-N-1 Test Strips) Made by Jungle, testing 5
different conditions, including Nitrites. You don't have to be rocket
scientist, just match the colors. Cost about $12, mine lasted all most 2
years, depends how frequently do the test.

Bit more expensive in the UK

But theres a local pet place that does free water testing
Took some today and the guy said that the ammonia was ok -slightly above 0

But said the nitrate or nitrite was too high
came up mid way on his scale instead of 0

He told me not to change the water because that would make it worse??
Just told me to leave it for a week and then change 20% of water and to
hoover all the old food and fish poo from the stones...!

Does that sound at all right?

In message , Fuzzy Orange
writes
Szaki wrote:
PetsMart sells or can be bought on line, water testing kits. One I like, has
5 small pads on it, (Quick Dip 5-N-1 Test Strips) Made by Jungle, testing 5
different conditions, including Nitrites. You don't have to be rocket
scientist, just match the colors. Cost about $12, mine lasted all most 2
years, depends how frequently do the test.

Bit more expensive in the UK

But theres a local pet place that does free water testing
Took some today and the guy said that the ammonia was ok -slightly above 0

But said the nitrate or nitrite was too high
came up mid way on his scale instead of 0

He told me not to change the water because that would make it worse??

if I were a cynic, I'd say he was hoping you'd be back in a week to
replace your dead fish.
He has a point in that if the tank is cycling, removing part of the
water will slow down the cycle. Marginally, I believe, but I'm willing
to be corrected ;-)
HOWEVER if your fish are suffering you should do regular, large water
changes. The tank _will_ cycle anyway, and you will probably save your
fishes lives.
You are going to need to do frequent water changes as a matter of
routine even once the tank has cycled, and you should certainly be
vacuuming the bottom regularly (if you have gravel you have to make sure
to work the bottom of the widget all the way down to the base of the
tank); otherwise you might as well not bother changing the water.

With your fish-load I think you'd need to change near to 50% of the
water weekly to be sure. Don't take me for an expert, I'm not; but I did
have to find out a lot about tank hygiene in a hurry earlier in the
year.

best of luck,
--
sophie

What was the exact Nitrite reading, in PPM? Did he tell you?
You see, that's why I do my own test and learned about ammonia cycle, 'cause
fish stores like PetsMart and like hire all these kids, don't know crap,
they just sales man.
Every time I walk into these places, different person runs around in the
fish section, they come and go in the job.
When you change your water do a test, what is the PH reading?, What is the
Nitrite reading? I learned by testing, that a half tank water change didn't
reduce high Nitrite or if it did a bit, in a few days it was back high
again, because the gravel and filter also can hold fish waist or left over
food, converts over ammonia, nitrate and nitrite in short time.
When I found out my Nitrite was 70-80 PPM, I had to do 3/4 water change,
than 2x 50%, than one 1/4 tank water change and I had acceptable 20-30 ppm
Nitrite in my water. Than I found out, my city, tap water all ready has
about 15 ppm Nitrite in it to start with. So you should check that also.
5-6 fish can cost $15-$20 and they can be dead in a few days if the water is
not right. You could've invest that money into a water testing kit, last a
few years and have healthy fish and minimum loose.
Read this web sites about Nitrite poisoning!

http://www.angelfire.com/blues/fish_...POISONING.html
http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/di...ritepoison.htm

Julius

"Fuzzy Orange" wrote in message
...
Szaki wrote:
PetsMart sells or can be bought on line, water testing kits. One I like,
has
5 small pads on it, (Quick Dip 5-N-1 Test Strips) Made by Jungle,
testing 5
different conditions, including Nitrites. You don't have to be rocket
scientist, just match the colors. Cost about $12, mine lasted all most 2
years, depends how frequently do the test.

Bit more expensive in the UK

But theres a local pet place that does free water testing
Took some today and the guy said that the ammonia was ok -slightly above 0


But said the nitrate or nitrite was too high
came up mid way on his scale instead of 0

He told me not to change the water because that would make it worse??
Just told me to leave it for a week and then change 20% of water and to
hoover all the old food and fish poo from the stones...!

Does that sound at all right?

"sophie" wrote in message
news
In message , Fuzzy Orange
writes
Szaki wrote:
PetsMart sells or can be bought on line, water testing kits. One I
like, has
5 small pads on it, (Quick Dip 5-N-1 Test Strips) Made by Jungle,
testing 5
different conditions, including Nitrites. You don't have to be rocket
scientist, just match the colors. Cost about $12, mine lasted all most
2
years, depends how frequently do the test.

Bit more expensive in the UK

But theres a local pet place that does free water testing
Took some today and the guy said that the ammonia was ok -slightly above
0

But said the nitrate or nitrite was too high
came up mid way on his scale instead of 0

He told me not to change the water because that would make it worse??

if I were a cynic, I'd say he was hoping you'd be back in a week to
replace your dead fish.
He has a point in that if the tank is cycling, removing part of the
water will slow down the cycle. Marginally, I believe, but I'm willing
to be corrected ;-)
HOWEVER if your fish are suffering you should do regular, large water
changes. The tank _will_ cycle anyway, and you will probably save your
fishes lives.
You are going to need to do frequent water changes as a matter of
routine even once the tank has cycled, and you should certainly be
vacuuming the bottom regularly (if you have gravel you have to make sure
to work the bottom of the widget all the way down to the base of the
tank); otherwise you might as well not bother changing the water.

With your fish-load I think you'd need to change near to 50% of the
water weekly to be sure. Don't take me for an expert, I'm not; but I did
have to find out a lot about tank hygiene in a hurry earlier in the
year.

best of luck,
--
sophie

I believe water in the UK has high Nitrates right out of the tap, something
like 60 PPM, so water changes may not help much.

sophie wrote:
If none has been changed for three weeks after moving house this might
be your problem; also if you added three new fish you've doubled the
bio-load on an already overstretched system (your stocking levels are a
fair bit higher than recommended) and the filter isn't coping with the
extra waste. Did you notice vaguely cloudy white water at any point?

Basically, your water has been getting slowly more toxic over the last
three weeks. You should probably do fifty percent water changes daily
(and do use something to get rid of the chlorine) for a while and then
keep a close eye on your ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels. If you do
intend to keep all those fish in that tank (which no-one here will
recommend, btw!) you're going to have to be absolutely religious about
water changes and you will need to under- rather than over-feed.

The white spots could be Ich, I'm not sure - you'd need someone who
knows more about stuff than me to deal with that one...

Are you serious?

The tank is nearly 3 foot long and has 6 fish in it - it looks nearly
empty!!

In message , Fuzzy Orange
writes
sophie wrote:
If none has been changed for three weeks after moving house this might
be your problem; also if you added three new fish you've doubled the
bio-load on an already overstretched system (your stocking levels are
a fair bit higher than recommended) and the filter isn't coping with
the extra waste. Did you notice vaguely cloudy white water at any point?
Basically, your water has been getting slowly more toxic over the
last three weeks. You should probably do fifty percent water changes
daily (and do use something to get rid of the chlorine) for a while
and then keep a close eye on your ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels. If
you do intend to keep all those fish in that tank (which no-one here
will recommend, btw!) you're going to have to be absolutely religious
about water changes and you will need to under- rather than over-feed.
The white spots could be Ich, I'm not sure - you'd need someone who
knows more about stuff than me to deal with that one...

Are you serious?

The tank is nearly 3 foot long and has 6 fish in it - it looks nearly
empty!!

'fraid so. (it's a _really_ common misconception, if that's any
consolation; I made exactly the same mistake. only worse!)
your tank is about 28/29 US gallons. goldfish out to have - wait for it
- 10 US gallons per fish, due in part to the amount of waste they
produce which is gigantic compared to most other fish. It's really hard
for an aquarium to have a relatively stable ecology with a high
goldfish-load. (I think plecos are pretty bad, too) The other reason for
this is that you need to bear the adult size of a healthy goldfish in
mind, which can be a foot. Six foot-long fish in a three-foot tank would
be kind of unkind...

I like the idea of space in the tank (crowds give me claustrophobia),
but on the other hand I've chosen to out three goldfish in a four foot
tank. I could fit in another one and a half (!) if I wanted to, but
instead I've got a small school of WCM minnows, which are sweet, and
have weather loaches in quarantine waiting to join them for a bit of
variety. They also make the tank look more interesting, not to mention
fuller. Goldfish purists will disagree with me, I think, but this works
_for me_.

Have you been introduced to the nitrogen cycle at any point? if not, it
would probably help your understanding.

hth,

--
sophie

sophie wrote:
In message , Fuzzy Orange
writes

sophie wrote:
If none has been changed for three weeks after moving house this might

be your problem; also if you added three new fish you've doubled the
bio-load on an already overstretched system (your stocking levels are
a fair bit higher than recommended) and the filter isn't coping with
the extra waste. Did you notice vaguely cloudy white water at any
point?
Basically, your water has been getting slowly more toxic over the
last three weeks. You should probably do fifty percent water changes
daily (and do use something to get rid of the chlorine) for a while
and then keep a close eye on your ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels. If
you do intend to keep all those fish in that tank (which no-one here
will recommend, btw!) you're going to have to be absolutely
religious about water changes and you will need to under- rather
than over-feed.
The white spots could be Ich, I'm not sure - you'd need someone who
knows more about stuff than me to deal with that one...


Are you serious?

The tank is nearly 3 foot long and has 6 fish in it - it looks nearly
empty!!


'fraid so. (it's a _really_ common misconception, if that's any
consolation; I made exactly the same mistake. only worse!)
your tank is about 28/29 US gallons. goldfish out to have - wait for it
- 10 US gallons per fish, due in part to the amount of waste they
produce which is gigantic compared to most other fish. It's really hard
for an aquarium to have a relatively stable ecology with a high
goldfish-load. (I think plecos are pretty bad, too) The other reason for
this is that you need to bear the adult size of a healthy goldfish in
mind, which can be a foot. Six foot-long fish in a three-foot tank would
be kind of unkind...

I like the idea of space in the tank (crowds give me claustrophobia),
but on the other hand I've chosen to out three goldfish in a four foot
tank. I could fit in another one and a half (!) if I wanted to, but
instead I've got a small school of WCM minnows, which are sweet, and
have weather loaches in quarantine waiting to join them for a bit of
variety. They also make the tank look more interesting, not to mention
fuller. Goldfish purists will disagree with me, I think, but this works
_for me_.

Have you been introduced to the nitrogen cycle at any point? if not, it
would probably help your understanding.

hth,


Thankyou - I appreciate your help so much because I am a beginner to all
this - Ive had fish for a while but never this seriously

The 2 goldfish are 3" long
And one fantail is the same size

Then there are 2 very small fish which a friend bought me only about 1"
long and i've no idea what they are hehe
And then 1 new fantail which has survived from the 3 I bought and this
is only an inch long at the most

I was planning on moving the goldfish next summer to the pond outside
that my neighbour has - as he has a few goldfish in there that are
roughly the same size and they seem quite happy

I've just found a site on the nitrogen cycle - reading it now

- Phil

Fuzzy Orange wrote:

sophie wrote:
If none has been changed for three weeks after moving house this might
be your problem; also if you added three new fish you've doubled the
bio-load on an already overstretched system (your stocking levels are a
fair bit higher than recommended) and the filter isn't coping with the
extra waste. Did you notice vaguely cloudy white water at any point?

Basically, your water has been getting slowly more toxic over the last
three weeks. You should probably do fifty percent water changes daily
(and do use something to get rid of the chlorine) for a while and then
keep a close eye on your ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels. If you do
intend to keep all those fish in that tank (which no-one here will
recommend, btw!) you're going to have to be absolutely religious about
water changes and you will need to under- rather than over-feed.

The white spots could be Ich, I'm not sure - you'd need someone who
knows more about stuff than me to deal with that one...

Are you serious?

The tank is nearly 3 foot long and has 6 fish in it - it looks nearly
empty!!

yep - you need a 60 gallon tank for 6 goldfish - they are extremely messy fish
and give off lots of ammonia. Water changes should be done at least once a week.

Bill Stock wrote:


I believe water in the UK has high Nitrates right out of the tap, something
like 60 PPM, so water changes may not help much.

Not in my water it doesn't!!