Eavestrough heating cable

I've seen a few of you using Eavestrough deicing cable to warm/de-ice your
pond. I gather this stuff does not get warm enough to melt the liner? Does
it leak current into the water?

I did some measuring today and I only seem to have 24" of depth, so I'm a
little concerned that the bubbler won't do it. I could swear I had 30" (must
be old age ), but I'm not sure I was hitting bottom either. The netting
was obscuring my view. The plan is to set up a temperature sensor about 8"
off the bottom and use the deicing cable to maintain a 40 degree temp. I
don't really want to heat the water, just keep it warm enough to prevent
fishsicles. Do you think 300 watts will be enough if I cover the pond?

On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 00:41:30 -0400, "Bill Stock"
wrote:

===I've seen a few of you using Eavestrough deicing cable to warm/de-ice your
===pond. I gather this stuff does not get warm enough to melt the liner? Does
===it leak current into the water?
===
===I did some measuring today and I only seem to have 24" of depth, so I'm a
===little concerned that the bubbler won't do it. I could swear I had 30" (must
===be old age ), but I'm not sure I was hitting bottom either. The netting
===was obscuring my view. The plan is to set up a temperature sensor about 8"
===off the bottom and use the deicing cable to maintain a 40 degree temp. I
===don't really want to heat the water, just keep it warm enough to prevent
===fishsicles. Do you think 300 watts will be enough if I cover the pond?
===
===
===
===


I dunno about using the electric heating cables normally used for on
house eaves and in gutters......Are they approved for submersion?
Being in ice or in a rain / sleet storm on a rood is not really
submerged. Same for outside extension cords, while they may work fine
in wet rainy weather, even with the plug ends out of water they sure
are not supposed to be submerged...... While I don;t have a dog in
this conversation in regards to having a pond in a potential freeze
situation, the use of a de-icing cable just spurs my interest in
regards to it being safe for such a use......
Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wife,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.

"Roy" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 00:41:30 -0400, "Bill Stock"
wrote:

===I've seen a few of you using Eavestrough deicing cable to
warm/de-ice your
===pond. I gather this stuff does not get warm enough to melt the
liner? Does
===it leak current into the water?
===
===I did some measuring today and I only seem to have 24" of depth, so
I'm a
===little concerned that the bubbler won't do it. I could swear I had
30" (must
===be old age ), but I'm not sure I was hitting bottom either. The
netting
===was obscuring my view. The plan is to set up a temperature sensor
about 8"
===off the bottom and use the deicing cable to maintain a 40 degree
temp. I
===don't really want to heat the water, just keep it warm enough to
prevent
===fishsicles. Do you think 300 watts will be enough if I cover the
pond?
===
===
===
===


I dunno about using the electric heating cables normally used for on
house eaves and in gutters......Are they approved for submersion?
Being in ice or in a rain / sleet storm on a rood is not really
submerged. Same for outside extension cords, while they may work fine
in wet rainy weather, even with the plug ends out of water they sure
are not supposed to be submerged...... While I don;t have a dog in
this conversation in regards to having a pond in a potential freeze
situation, the use of a de-icing cable just spurs my interest in
regards to it being safe for such a use......
Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wife,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.

My concern too Roy. I've seen the same three or four posters who swear by
it, but it does not seem to be in wide spread use.

Pond is about 500 gallons (probably less).

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:06:30 GMT, (Roy)
wrote:

On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 00:41:30 -0400, "Bill Stock"
wrote:

===I've seen a few of you using Eavestrough deicing cable to warm/de-ice your
===pond.

I dunno about using the electric heating cables normally used for on
house eaves and in gutters......Are they approved for submersion?

Since the warmed water will move towards the bottom as the density
increases [that 4 degree thing], the heater cables could be near the
top, maybe, and subject to much less pressure?
--
Crashj

"Bill Stock" wrote in message
...

I did some measuring today and I only seem to have 24" of depth, so I'm a
little concerned that the bubbler won't do it. I could swear I had 30"
(must
be old age ), but I'm not sure I was hitting bottom either. The netting
was obscuring my view. The plan is to set up a temperature sensor about 8"
off the bottom and use the deicing cable to maintain a 40 degree temp. I
don't really want to heat the water, just keep it warm enough to prevent
fishsicles. Do you think 300 watts will be enough if I cover the pond?

Water is densest at 39 degrees. The soil under the pond will be pushing
heat to the bottom of the pond. If you use a heater, the warmer, 39 degree
water will fall to the bottom. If the water warms above 39, then the warmer
water rises toward the surface. If the surface is frozen, then you are just
creating a circulation of bottom water toward the top, until it reaches 39,
and then it will fall to the bottom again. The ice on the surface of the
pond acts somewhat as an insulator, making it more difficult to make the ice
thicker and thicker, and with the bottom contributing heat, the pond is
likely not to freeze completely to the bottom, though pond depth, and
location can result in completely frozen ponds.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/index.html

"RichToyBox" wrote in message
news:2Yn7d.304011$Fg5.28178@attbi_s53...

"Bill Stock" wrote in message
...

I did some measuring today and I only seem to have 24" of depth, so I'm
a
little concerned that the bubbler won't do it. I could swear I had 30"
(must
be old age ), but I'm not sure I was hitting bottom either. The
netting
was obscuring my view. The plan is to set up a temperature sensor about
8"
off the bottom and use the deicing cable to maintain a 40 degree temp. I
don't really want to heat the water, just keep it warm enough to prevent
fishsicles. Do you think 300 watts will be enough if I cover the pond?

Water is densest at 39 degrees. The soil under the pond will be pushing
heat to the bottom of the pond. If you use a heater, the warmer, 39
degree
water will fall to the bottom. If the water warms above 39, then the
warmer
water rises toward the surface. If the surface is frozen, then you are
just
creating a circulation of bottom water toward the top, until it reaches
39,
and then it will fall to the bottom again. The ice on the surface of the
pond acts somewhat as an insulator, making it more difficult to make the
ice
thicker and thicker, and with the bottom contributing heat, the pond is
likely not to freeze completely to the bottom, though pond depth, and
location can result in completely frozen ponds.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/index.html


So assuming my temperature probe is about about a foot off the bottom
(limitation of probe length), I should probably set the ON temperature of my
heater around 33 degrees and the OFF temperature at 37 degrees. This will
likely require a little experimentation. Perhaps a pond cam to watch the
results.