Uncontrollable High pH

The water here is off the chart on my test strips for ph and Total
alkalinity (kH, I believe). Is there anything I can do to lower the
Alkalinity, and then the pH, preferably without changing the hardness?
The hardness is just right, it runs right around 120 ppm. I've tried
just about everything, from using plain pH down by Aquarium
Pharmaceuticals Inc. to a buffer put out by Sea-Chem named pH 7.0
Neutral Regulator. I've also tried boilling the water before adding
these chemicals. I've tried using something like 50 times the
recommended dosage of both on a gallon of water I had sitting in a
bucket only to not have it change at all. I've got some Africans, some
Convicts and some Angelfish, all of which absolutely thrive in this
water (they are all breeding, at least). Will the Rams do okay in this
seemingly unchangable water? If not, is there some way I haven't thought
of to change the pH? I want desperately to try some fish that require
neutral or acidic water such as Rams, but the quest seems hopeless.
Thanks for any help you might be able to provide.



--
Posted via CichlidFish.com
http://www.cichlidfish.com/portal/forums

"Deepseafisher" -DONTEMAIL wrote in message
...
The water here is off the chart on my test strips for ph and Total
alkalinity (kH, I believe). Is there anything I can do to lower the
Alkalinity, and then the pH, preferably without changing the hardness?
The hardness is just right, it runs right around 120 ppm. I've tried
just about everything, from using plain pH down by Aquarium
Pharmaceuticals Inc. to a buffer put out by Sea-Chem named pH 7.0
Neutral Regulator. I've also tried boilling the water before adding
these chemicals. I've tried using something like 50 times the
recommended dosage of both on a gallon of water I had sitting in a
bucket only to not have it change at all. I've got some Africans, some
Convicts and some Angelfish, all of which absolutely thrive in this
water (they are all breeding, at least). Will the Rams do okay in this
seemingly unchangable water? If not, is there some way I haven't
thought
of to change the pH? I want desperately to try some fish that require
neutral or acidic water such as Rams, but the quest seems hopeless.
Thanks for any help you might be able to provide.


What is your pH? Pour a glass of tap water and leave it on your counter
for a day (to outgas any trapped gases) and then measure the pH. One way
to reduce your pH without affecting your hardness is to raise the CO2
level in the water with a CO2 injection system.
--
www.NetMax.tk

--
Posted via CichlidFish.com
http://www.cichlidfish.com/portal/forums

Deepseafisher -DONTEMAIL wrote in news:cq408q
:

The water here is off the chart on my test strips for ph and Total
alkalinity (kH, I believe). Is there anything I can do to lower the
Alkalinity, and then the pH, preferably without changing the hardness?

add some acids?

--
http://www.neopets.com/refer.phtml?username=moosespet

Have you investigated the idea of collecting rainwater to do your water
changes with? I had some really high pH #'s (8.4), Kh was 180, and GH was
300. So I can't just use tap water here.

But what I did (ymmv) was to use distilled water during the water changes as
well as add ph down as well.This really was not a big help. But I read about
a fellow "Frankrkay" describes how he does it and I am trying to do
something similar....


_________

This is from post from December, 1983 by Frankrkay


Rain water, for the most part, is soft, has low pH, and has low kH and gH. I
used it for water changes in quite a few tanks, after running it through a
home
made filter.
Waters buffering capacity (kH) is due to carbonates and bicarbonates, which
gives the water ability to keep pH stable. Rainwater is likely to have low
kH -
kH below 4.5dH will cause unstable pH. Sence most people with a tank or two
doesn't have a kH test kit, you can tell if the kH is getting low by testing
the pH. A pH drop of more than two tenths in 4 weeks, means the water's
buffering capacity is almost used up, and it's time to increase kH. You can
raise kH without raising gH (for soft water fish), by adding baking soda. To
raise both gH and kH together ( for hard water fish), add marble chips or
sea
shells to the filter. With rain water, you should filter out heavy metals
and
volatile organic compounds (unburned fuel) - things that can't be
broke-down
by bacteria. After an initial downpour, catch the rain water in a 30 to 40
gal.
plastic trash can, filtered through filter floss, peat moss (binds heavy
metal
impurities), and
activated carbon, or poly filter...... Frank

_________

Check this site out too http://mike-edwardes.members.beeb.net/rain.html

HTH :-)

--
James





"Deepseafisher" -DONTEMAIL wrote in message
...
| The water here is off the chart on my test strips for ph and Total
| alkalinity (kH, I believe). Is there anything I can do to lower the
| Alkalinity, and then the pH, preferably without changing the hardness?
| The hardness is just right, it runs right around 120 ppm. I've tried
| just about everything, from using plain pH down by Aquarium
| Pharmaceuticals Inc. to a buffer put out by Sea-Chem named pH 7.0
| Neutral Regulator. I've also tried boilling the water before adding
| these chemicals. I've tried using something like 50 times the
| recommended dosage of both on a gallon of water I had sitting in a
| bucket only to not have it change at all. I've got some Africans, some
| Convicts and some Angelfish, all of which absolutely thrive in this
| water (they are all breeding, at least). Will the Rams do okay in this
| seemingly unchangable water? If not, is there some way I haven't thought
| of to change the pH? I want desperately to try some fish that require
| neutral or acidic water such as Rams, but the quest seems hopeless.
| Thanks for any help you might be able to provide.
|
|
|
| --
| Posted via CichlidFish.com
| http://www.cichlidfish.com/portal/forums

How about an RO unit, then re buffer the water yourself from there.

That's always an excellent option if one is receptive to the initial $$$
outlay for a good RO/DI setup. But these can waste a lot of water during the
purification process. But, in my area rainwater still if free ( Don't tell
no one)

If my wife said money was no object.. I'd have a RO/DI installed tomorrow.
LOL :-)

--
James

"Phil" wrote in message
...
| How about an RO unit, then re buffer the water yourself from there.
|
|

One question not yet asked is the age of your kit.

Over time, test kits become less reliable. If yours is over a year old,
I suggest you buy a new kit to confirm the pH level before continuing.

Boy, I'd love to buy an RO unit, but the price is no-where near my range. I haven't tried rainwater yet, next time it rains, I'll certainly give it a shot. I bought one more pharmaceutical from the LFS guy, who said that he almost sells more of it than he does fish. It was Proper pH 7.0 by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals. It took about a triple dose to do it, but it lowered the pH and kept it at 7. A knew problem has arisen though. It removed all of the hardness from my water. Will it be possible to regain hardness without increasing pH? I bought a really nice test kit, and my pH in untreated water runs 9.8.. The kH runs 35 degrees. Well, I appreciate the help.

--Jeff



--
Posted via CichlidFish.com
http://www.cichlidfish.com/portal/forums

I think what you meant to say was that 'pH is hard to control if the
buffer level is too *low*'. A high buffer makes your pH very stable
(hard to change but very stable ;~).

if I understood correctly..
--
www.NetMax.tk

"James" wrote in message
...
pH is hard to control if the buffer level is too high (KH), so deal
with
that 1st. Read these pages and maybe this will get you pointed in the
right
direction.

A word of caution, make any water changes SLOWLY. The slower the more
stability you will have in the total water chemistry


http://www.drhelm.com/aquarium/chemistry.html

http://mike-edwardes.members.beeb.net/rain.html


--
James

"Deepseafisher" -DONTEMAIL wrote in
message
...
| Boy, I'd love to buy an RO unit, but the price is no-where near my
range.
I haven't tried rainwater yet, next time it rains, I'll certainly give
it a
shot. I bought one more pharmaceutical from the LFS guy, who said that
he
almost sells more of it than he does fish. It was Proper pH 7.0 by
Aquarium
Pharmaceuticals. It took about a triple dose to do it, but it lowered
the
pH and kept it at 7. A knew problem has arisen though. It removed all
of
the hardness from my water. Will it be possible to regain hardness
without
increasing pH? I bought a really nice test kit, and my pH in untreated
water runs 9.8.. The kH runs 35 degrees. Well, I appreciate the
help.
|
| --Jeff
|
|
|
| --
| Posted via CichlidFish.com
| http://www.cichlidfish.com/portal/forums

pH is hard to control if the buffer level is too high (KH), so deal with
that 1st. Read these pages and maybe this will get you pointed in the right
direction.

A word of caution, make any water changes SLOWLY. The slower the more
stability you will have in the total water chemistry


http://www.drhelm.com/aquarium/chemistry.html

http://mike-edwardes.members.beeb.net/rain.html


--
James

"Deepseafisher" -DONTEMAIL wrote in message
...
| Boy, I'd love to buy an RO unit, but the price is no-where near my range.
I haven't tried rainwater yet, next time it rains, I'll certainly give it a
shot. I bought one more pharmaceutical from the LFS guy, who said that he
almost sells more of it than he does fish. It was Proper pH 7.0 by Aquarium
Pharmaceuticals. It took about a triple dose to do it, but it lowered the
pH and kept it at 7. A knew problem has arisen though. It removed all of
the hardness from my water. Will it be possible to regain hardness without
increasing pH? I bought a really nice test kit, and my pH in untreated
water runs 9.8.. The kH runs 35 degrees. Well, I appreciate the help.
|
| --Jeff
|
|
|
| --
| Posted via CichlidFish.com
| http://www.cichlidfish.com/portal/forums