Uncontrollable High pH

LOL, did I say that? I gotta get a real job. ;-)

In my experience, when the total alkalinity (TA), carbonate hardness (KH) aka "the water buffer" , was too high you could drop the pH by adding acid or dilute the total sample with distilled water, but the pH would be resistant to really change and remain changed, until the TA got below 60-80ppm. Since I always have had some seriously hard water out of my tap, it takes quite a bit of tap to make that kind of water change without a "pH crash', shocking and possibly injuring the fish.

I guess the point I was trying to get across, you need the buffer knocked down, get you pH adjusted then reset buffer levels (100ppm)

Whew

--
James
"NetMax" wrote in message ...

I think what you meant to say was that 'pH is hard to control if the
buffer level is too *low*'. A high buffer makes your pH very stable
(hard to change but very stable ;~).

if I understood correctly..
--
www.NetMax.tk

"James" wrote in message
...
pH is hard to control if the buffer level is too high (KH), so deal
with
that 1st. Read these pages and maybe this will get you pointed in the
right
direction.

A word of caution, make any water changes SLOWLY. The slower the more
stability you will have in the total water chemistry


http://www.drhelm.com/aquarium/chemistry.html

http://mike-edwardes.members.beeb.net/rain.html


--
James

"Deepseafisher" -DONTEMAIL wrote in
message
...
| Boy, I'd love to buy an RO unit, but the price is no-where near my
range.
I haven't tried rainwater yet, next time it rains, I'll certainly give
it a
shot. I bought one more pharmaceutical from the LFS guy, who said that
he
almost sells more of it than he does fish. It was Proper pH 7.0 by
Aquarium
Pharmaceuticals. It took about a triple dose to do it, but it lowered
the
pH and kept it at 7. A knew problem has arisen though. It removed all
of
the hardness from my water. Will it be possible to regain hardness
without
increasing pH? I bought a really nice test kit, and my pH in untreated
water runs 9.8.. The kH runs 35 degrees. Well, I appreciate the
help.
|
| --Jeff
|
|
|
| --
| Posted via CichlidFish.com
| http://www.cichlidfish.com/portal/forums

My kit is only like 3 days old. I got it for a birthday present. That
oughtn't be a problem, at least I think.



--
Posted via CichlidFish.com
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Thanks for all of the replies. I am currently trying to thaw some snow
that fell (very unusual for Texas) and I will see how that is going to
work to maybe dilute some of the water. I got about 30 or 40 gallons of
well packed snow, who knows how much water that will be when it melts...

Anyway...

Does anyone know where to find Calcium Carbonate? Will Calcium Carbonate
affect pH along with the gH and kH? Is it a household substance, or
something I'll have to buy from the LFS. Are there other ways to
increase gH? Also, what can I buy (short of an RO unit) that will lower
my kH? Is rainwater my only realistic option for lowering kH?

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year

--Jeff



--
Posted via CichlidFish.com
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Deepseafisher wrote:
Thanks for all of the replies. I am currently trying to thaw some snow
that fell (very unusual for Texas) and I will see how that is going to
work to maybe dilute some of the water. I got about 30 or 40 gallons
of well packed snow, who knows how much water that will be when it
melts...

Anyway...

Does anyone know where to find Calcium Carbonate? Will Calcium
Carbonate affect pH along with the gH and kH? Is it a household
substance, or something I'll have to buy from the LFS. Are there
other ways to increase gH? Also, what can I buy (short of an RO unit)
that will lower my kH? Is rainwater my only realistic option for
lowering kH?

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year

--Jeff

The company below have it on their website. I have no idea how good or bad
they are

http://www.iowapyrosupply.com/chemical.html

And have a read at this article.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...y2002/chem.htm

Here where I am in Scotland it is trying to snow. Maybe we will have a white
Chrisrmas.

Merry Christmas and a proserous New Year.



--

Don`t Worry, Be Happy
Sandy
--
E-Mail:-
Website:- http://www.ftscotland.co.uk
Looking for a webhost? Try http://www.1and1.co.uk/?k_id=2966019

Well, the snow flopped miserably, but rain water seems to be doing okay.
The second site Sandy gave me seems to be about salt water stuff. I'll
keep y'all posted about how the rainwater turns out.



--
Posted via CichlidFish.com
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sandy, a right schotish name, lol.

as i see it (and im sure we discussed on cichlidfish) fish will ajust to
the water chemestry they are brought up in. any thoughts on this?

i realise that it is hardly ideal, and will yeild strange results during
breeding but if its just a simple case of keeping the fish, then it isnt
that great an issue.

my local water is pretty hard, (by all accounts, never tested it, its
jsut known) and its rerally hard to grow plants in it, but ive kept and
bred many fish, including discus when i was younger and had no idea
about chemstry and things

Craig



--
Posted via CichlidFish.com
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Craig wrote:
sandy, a right schotish name, lol.


As is Craig


as i see it (and im sure we discussed on cichlidfish) fish will ajust to
the water chemestry they are brought up in. any thoughts on this?


I haven't tested water in 40+ years of fish keeping.


i realise that it is hardly ideal, and will yeild strange results during
breeding but if its just a simple case of keeping the fish, then it isnt
that great an issue.


Any fish I have kept have bred on there own, I take nothing to do with it



my local water is pretty hard, (by all accounts, never tested it, its
jsut known) and its rerally hard to grow plants in it, but ive kept and
bred many fish, including discus when i was younger and had no idea
about chemstry and things

Craig

Ignorance is usually the best way, then you don't have anything to worry
about other than the fish

Keeping the water clean and healthy is better than trying to change what
you have, remember we don't keep fish we keep water, healthy water =
healthy fish, even if they aren't supposed to live in water with the
parameters you have from the tap.

--

Don`t Worry, Be Happy
Sandy
--
E-Mail:-
Website:- http://www.ftscotland.co.uk
Looking for a webhost? Try http://www.1and1.co.uk/?k_id=2966019

here here.

ive once or twice taken a sample of water the local pet store when i was
younger but it seems that any problems can instnatly be fixed by a
really good clean down and a water change ever few days.

ill probley be lynched on the cichlidfish boards now for this (after
preaching to people to get test kits)

but yes, i think that the altering of water params is just another idea
by the pet stores to sell more chemicals.

just my 2 pence

Peace out Craig.

out of interest, what fish do you keep sandy?



--
Posted via CichlidFish.com
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Craig wrote:
here here.



out of interest, what fish do you keep sandy?

ATM. I have 3 Angels, 2 Plecs, 1 Harlequin, 5 Red Eye Tetra, 2 Barbus
schuberti (Golden Barbs) and 1 Rosy Barb.

You can see some pics at the link below.

http://www.ftscotland.co.uk/gallery/...fish-tank.html

--

Don`t Worry, Be Happy
Sandy
--
E-Mail:-
Website:- http://www.ftscotland.co.uk
Looking for a webhost? Try http://www.1and1.co.uk/?k_id=2966019

Where I used to live the pH was between 8 and 9, but very stable.

This was mostly due to "Carbonate hardness"

The secret for me to have happy fish was to forget about the pH reading, and
to concentrate on other aspects of water chemistry (ammonia, nitrate,
nitrate, chlorine, chloramine, DOCs and TDS) that I could influence. (also,
temp and amount of light)

MOST fish will get used to any reasonable pH

Ammonia - from fish waste and rotting food it very toxic - more toxic at
higher temperatures
Nitrate / nitrite, - normal bacterial products from the breakdown of
ammonia. not as toxic as ammonia
The best way to remove these are regular partial water changes and fast
growing live plants.

chlorine / chloramine - these are in "city water" to kill bacteria.
Chlorine will evaporate over time. Chloramine won't.
The best way to remove these are regular partial water changes and good
circulation of your water

DOCs and TDS

Dissolved Organic Compounds are usually fish and bacterial waste products
that have a special chemistry and dissolve in water rather than floating on
the top (like oil) or sinking to the bottom (like indol, a main component of
poop)
The best way to remove these are regular partial water changes and
regular gravel vacuuming.

TDS is Total Dissolved Solutes - I don;t know enough to give intelligent
comment on this
DYAWC (Do Yet Another Water Change) is my first answer to ALMOST ANY
AQUARIUM PROBLEM

You can fight with your pH Best case is to leave it constant rather than
fighting with it.




"Craig" -DONTEMAIL wrote in message
...
sandy, a right schotish name, lol.

as i see it (and im sure we discussed on cichlidfish) fish will ajust to
the water chemestry they are brought up in. any thoughts on this?

i realise that it is hardly ideal, and will yeild strange results during
breeding but if its just a simple case of keeping the fish, then it isnt
that great an issue.

my local water is pretty hard, (by all accounts, never tested it, its
jsut known) and its rerally hard to grow plants in it, but ive kept and
bred many fish, including discus when i was younger and had no idea
about chemstry and things

Craig



--
Posted via CichlidFish.com
http://www.cichlidfish.com/portal/forums