ZEOLITE

1. Can I use cat litter as a amonia absorber?
2. If I put ZEOLITE into my tank and it absorbes the amonia, does that mean
that there won't be any amonia to break down into nitrite/nitrate? Does
that mean that I am not creating bacteria in the filter?
3. Can I put ZEOLITE as bottom gravel in my 160 gal. pond?

Now for my problem question???

1.) I have 4 koi that grew in four months from 4" to 8" in my 55 gal. fish
tank. Water quality was good (Amonia-0, Nitrite-0, Nitrate-40). The last 5
or 6 times I cleaned the filter every other day because the water return
(circulation) was being blocked by sediment. Apparently the water quality
was being maintained by the bacteria in the bottom gravel since there was no
filter circulation (fish survived due to good aeration).

First question: Does the gravel bacteria theory make sence?????

I built a 160 gal miny-pond down in the cellar. I also designed and built a
drip filter (BIOBALLS media) which by theory is large enough to keep the
pond clean. I moved my 4 KOI (now 8") from my 55 gal. fish tank to the
cellar pond. Many of the BIOBALLS were taken from the previous 55 gal.
filter. I know that there probably is not enough media to take care of the
fish load but I was hoping that it would slowly balance out. Amonia going
up to 1, Nitrite-0, Nitrate-2-5 ppm). Did three 85% water changes in three
days but amonia levels are still up.

Next question: Can I use some of the gravel from the 55 gal. tank as bottom
gravel for the 160 gal. pond to help in controlling amonia?

Will ZEOLITE gravel work?

Now for the final question: If the water amonia reading is 1.0 and I change
85% of the pond water then wht does the next water test show the amonia
still high. I would think that changing 85% of the water should reduce the
amonia level by at least that amount. Next day water change same situation,
and the next.

By the way...fish as at bottom of pond but still alive...

Rich

"Richard Holub" wrote in message
...
1. Can I use cat litter as a amonia absorber?
2. If I put ZEOLITE into my tank and it absorbes the amonia, does that
mean
that there won't be any amonia to break down into nitrite/nitrate? Does
that mean that I am not creating bacteria in the filter?
3. Can I put ZEOLITE as bottom gravel in my 160 gal. pond?

## It's a temporary fix and a waste of money. Use Real gravel.

Now for my problem question???
1.) I have 4 koi that grew in four months from 4" to 8" in my 55 gal.
fish
tank. Water quality was good (Amonia-0, Nitrite-0, Nitrate-40). The last
5
or 6 times I cleaned the filter every other day because the water return
(circulation) was being blocked by sediment. Apparently the water quality
was being maintained by the bacteria in the bottom gravel since there was
no
filter circulation (fish survived due to good aeration).

First question: Does the gravel bacteria theory make sence?????

## Yes. If the filter fails or the electricity goes out the gravel bacteria
itself will help keep the ammonia from going wild.

I built a 160 gal miny-pond down in the cellar. I also designed and built
a
drip filter (BIOBALLS media) which by theory is large enough to keep the
pond clean. I moved my 4 KOI (now 8") from my 55 gal. fish tank to the
cellar pond. Many of the BIOBALLS were taken from the previous 55 gal.
filter. I know that there probably is not enough media to take care of
the
fish load but I was hoping that it would slowly balance out. Amonia going
up to 1, Nitrite-0, Nitrate-2-5 ppm). Did three 85% water changes in
three
days but amonia levels are still up.

Next question: Can I use some of the gravel from the 55 gal. tank as
bottom
gravel for the 160 gal. pond to help in controlling amonia?

## You have to ask? Use it all!

Will ZEOLITE gravel work?

## Why waste money in that?

Now for the final question: If the water amonia reading is 1.0 and I
change
85% of the pond water then wht does the next water test show the amonia
still high. I would think that changing 85% of the water should reduce
the
amonia level by at least that amount. Next day water change same
situation,
and the next.

## Use thet *old* bacteria ridden gravel from their tank.

By the way...fish as at bottom of pond but still alive...

## Make a hardware cloth "surround" to keep koi and GF from jumping out over
the edge. Sometimes they jump for the sheer joy of it - once they hit the
floor they can't climb back into the pool or tank.
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Words that soak into your ears are whispered, not yelled."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Richard Holub" wrote:

snip

Now for my problem question???

1.) I have 4 koi that grew in four months from 4" to 8" in my 55 gal. fish
tank. Water quality was good (Amonia-0, Nitrite-0, Nitrate-40). The last 5
or 6 times I cleaned the filter every other day because the water return
(circulation) was being blocked by sediment. Apparently the water quality
was being maintained by the bacteria in the bottom gravel since there was no
filter circulation (fish survived due to good aeration).




Hi Rich,

That's just way too much fish for that size tank. Others will chime in here,
but (and let's not start a flame war here) a "rule of thumb" is to have 1000
gallons for the first Koi and 100 gallons per Koi after that. Clearly, since
they were small, your filtration kept them going, but they are going to get
much bigger.


San Diego Joe
4,000 - 5,000 Gallons.
Goldfish, a RES named Colombo and an Oscar.



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Thanks Windsong,

But the reason I thought of using ZEOLITE is because of its immediate
(???????) action in absorbing amonia. I don't know if the fish would
survive 6-8 wks for the filter to get going.

Rich

3. Can I put ZEOLITE as bottom gravel in my 160 gal. pond?

## It's a temporary fix and a waste of money. Use Real gravel.

yes, zeolite absorbs the ammonia so it is not used as food by the bacteria. then the
zeolite must be removed and regenerated in salt brine.
this is not how to cycle a pond nor a tank.
I was in same situation when plans for pond didnt progress as fast. I was cleaning
the whisper filters every day. if there was algae on the back and sides it can
absorb quite a bit of wastes. gravel that is not part of UGF only has bacteria
functioning on the very top as the biobugs are aerobic require oxygen to convert
wastes. if the gravel gets coated with sediment the bacteria cannot do their job.
I have had bare bottom tanks with nice algae all on walls and bottom and 4 large GF
in a 55 gallon and BOTH filters stopped for some reason. The water was getting
cloudy, but no ammonia, no nitrites.
bioballs are not very good surface area for biobugs. polyester batting is probably
the best, gravel next best. the ammonia or nitrites may be getting too high and
killing the biobugs. water changes have to be done every day or more than once a day
to keep the ammonia barely detectable by the test kits and then the nitrites the
same. temp also affects how fast it will cycle. at 75oF with lots of aeration
cycling goes faster add a bit of salt and if you have low pH add some organic
dolomitic limestone. low pH will kill or slow the biobugs down.
http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/...AVITY%20FILTER
There is good biobug starter, BioSpira that actually works.
use the bottom gravel in the drip system, will help much more.
stop feeding the fish. dont know what is boosting the ammonia levels unless you got
chloramine and when you dechlor there is leftover ammonia. ???? check the tap water.
also, drop some of the fish food into a cup of water and check for ammonia... some
foods give off ammonia. you really must get the ammonia levels down or the "pond"
wont cycle. BTW, here is the veggie filter for my basement pond
http://puregold.aquaria.net/mypond/V...ie_filter.html
some of those plants have their roots directly in the water and pull out wastes.
water cress is good at this. Ingrid

"Richard Holub" wrote:
Now for the final question: If the water amonia reading is 1.0 and I change
85% of the pond water then wht does the next water test show the amonia
still high. I would think that changing 85% of the water should reduce the
amonia level by at least that amount. Next day water change same situation,
and the next.

By the way...fish as at bottom of pond but still alive...

Rich




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Thanks Ingrid,

The reason I am in this predicament is because I have not completed my
outside pond in time. I did not realize that these fish grow so quickly. I
have become somewhat attached to these fish so I hope I don't loose them
but....water change every day. I was hoping that the ZEOLITE would help
keep the amonia down till the filter came into full service.

What type of light are you using in your cellar plantings? Are you using
different spectrum lights?


Rich

wrote in message
...

yes, zeolite absorbs the ammonia so it is not used as food by the
bacteria. then the
zeolite must be removed and regenerated in salt brine.
this is not how to cycle a pond nor a tank.
I was in same situation when plans for pond didnt progress as fast. I was
cleaning
the whisper filters every day. if there was algae on the back and sides
it can
absorb quite a bit of wastes. gravel that is not part of UGF only has
bacteria
functioning on the very top as the biobugs are aerobic require oxygen to
convert
wastes. if the gravel gets coated with sediment the bacteria cannot do
their job.
I have had bare bottom tanks with nice algae all on walls and bottom and 4
large GF
in a 55 gallon and BOTH filters stopped for some reason. The water was
getting
cloudy, but no ammonia, no nitrites.
bioballs are not very good surface area for biobugs. polyester batting is
probably
the best, gravel next best. the ammonia or nitrites may be getting too
high and
killing the biobugs. water changes have to be done every day or more than
once a day
to keep the ammonia barely detectable by the test kits and then the
nitrites the
same. temp also affects how fast it will cycle. at 75oF with lots of
aeration
cycling goes faster add a bit of salt and if you have low pH add some
organic
dolomitic limestone. low pH will kill or slow the biobugs down.
http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/...AVITY%20FILTER
There is good biobug starter, BioSpira that actually works.
use the bottom gravel in the drip system, will help much more.
stop feeding the fish. dont know what is boosting the ammonia levels
unless you got
chloramine and when you dechlor there is leftover ammonia. ???? check the
tap water.
also, drop some of the fish food into a cup of water and check for
ammonia... some
foods give off ammonia. you really must get the ammonia levels down or
the "pond"
wont cycle. BTW, here is the veggie filter for my basement pond
http://puregold.aquaria.net/mypond/V...ie_filter.html
some of those plants have their roots directly in the water and pull out
wastes.
water cress is good at this. Ingrid

"Richard Holub" wrote:
Now for the final question: If the water amonia reading is 1.0 and I
change
85% of the pond water then wht does the next water test show the amonia
still high. I would think that changing 85% of the water should reduce
the
amonia level by at least that amount. Next day water change same
situation,
and the next.

By the way...fish as at bottom of pond but still alive...

Rich




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

tell me about it. I had no idea either and mine were closer to 18" when I got them
out of the 55 gallon and into their pond. I was terrified they were going to break
the tank!!
I hate to tell you, but one year I had to pull all my fish into the basement,
something like 6 tanks @100-144 gallons each and doing water changes every night
between 11pm - 3 am in morning. took a TV downstairs to watch reruns.
BUT ... I was treating with antibiotics that killed the biobugs, once that was over
the gravity filters cycled very very fast.
I use plain old fluorescent lights... they are full spectrum. and cheap. not
everything did equally well. foliage plants do fine, flowering ones not so fine. I
did want to keep some impatients that dont like bright sun, but time got away from
me. Ingrid

"Richard Holub" wrote:
The reason I am in this predicament is because I have not completed my
outside pond in time. I did not realize that these fish grow so quickly. I
have become somewhat attached to these fish so I hope I don't loose them
but....water change every day. I was hoping that the ZEOLITE would help
keep the amonia down till the filter came into full service.

What type of light are you using in your cellar plantings? Are you using
different spectrum lights?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

But the reason I thought of using ZEOLITE is because of its immediate
(???????) action in absorbing amonia. I don't know if the fish would
survive 6-8 wks for the filter to get going.

Rich

Hi Rich,

You know I got nailed for this about 2 years ago, so I'll be more tackful.

Treat the Ammonia with an ammo-lock (Amquell) product. This will de-tox the
ammonia yet make it accessible to the bacteria to feed and grow on. Next
treat Nitrite with 0.1% salt. Do a 20% water change only as nitrate
readings show you should (about every 3-5 days now) and 1/week thereafter.
Let nitrate be your guide. Do not feed the fish until the water chemistry
is correct. Do not do water changes without treating the ammonia, a higher
pH in the water change can make the ammonia more toxic.

Like Ingrid, I'm running my 55 with no gravel on the bottom and have let
all but the front glass get algae coated. 4 large fantails, I do a water
change only 2/month. When I started up this tank, with a brand new Fluval
440, I brought in 1 fish/week and didn't feed for a total of 6 weeks. A
little fasting is good for these fish, especially roe filled females. I
added Amquell periodically with small water changes, and never did get an
ammonia reading or nitrite spike. I had others check my water parameters
just to make sure my tests were reading right. ~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

I thought I had heard that some test kits will still show ammonia even if it
is bound and 'safe'?
Bill

"Richard Holub" wrote in message
...
1. Can I use cat litter as a amonia absorber?
2. If I put ZEOLITE into my tank and it absorbes the amonia, does that
mean that there won't be any amonia to break down into nitrite/nitrate?
Does that mean that I am not creating bacteria in the filter?
3. Can I put ZEOLITE as bottom gravel in my 160 gal. pond?

Now for my problem question???

1.) I have 4 koi that grew in four months from 4" to 8" in my 55 gal.
fish tank. Water quality was good (Amonia-0, Nitrite-0, Nitrate-40). The
last 5 or 6 times I cleaned the filter every other day because the water
return (circulation) was being blocked by sediment. Apparently the water
quality was being maintained by the bacteria in the bottom gravel since
there was no filter circulation (fish survived due to good aeration).

First question: Does the gravel bacteria theory make sence?????

I built a 160 gal miny-pond down in the cellar. I also designed and built
a drip filter (BIOBALLS media) which by theory is large enough to keep the
pond clean. I moved my 4 KOI (now 8") from my 55 gal. fish tank to the
cellar pond. Many of the BIOBALLS were taken from the previous 55 gal.
filter. I know that there probably is not enough media to take care of
the fish load but I was hoping that it would slowly balance out. Amonia
going up to 1, Nitrite-0, Nitrate-2-5 ppm). Did three 85% water changes
in three days but amonia levels are still up.

Next question: Can I use some of the gravel from the 55 gal. tank as
bottom gravel for the 160 gal. pond to help in controlling amonia?

Will ZEOLITE gravel work?

Now for the final question: If the water amonia reading is 1.0 and I
change 85% of the pond water then wht does the next water test show the
amonia still high. I would think that changing 85% of the water should
reduce the amonia level by at least that amount. Next day water change
same situation, and the next.

By the way...fish as at bottom of pond but still alive...

Rich

Ammonia will show sith most test kits whether it is bound or not, but
chlorine, once treated, will not show, since it becomes ionized, as in salt.
That is where the test kits referred to work. I thought the same thing you
were when I first read the post.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

"Newbie Bill" wrote in message
om...
I thought I had heard that some test kits will still show ammonia even if
it is bound and 'safe'?
Bill

"Richard Holub" wrote in message
...
1. Can I use cat litter as a amonia absorber?
2. If I put ZEOLITE into my tank and it absorbes the amonia, does that
mean that there won't be any amonia to break down into nitrite/nitrate?
Does that mean that I am not creating bacteria in the filter?
3. Can I put ZEOLITE as bottom gravel in my 160 gal. pond?

Now for my problem question???

1.) I have 4 koi that grew in four months from 4" to 8" in my 55 gal.
fish tank. Water quality was good (Amonia-0, Nitrite-0, Nitrate-40).
The last 5 or 6 times I cleaned the filter every other day because the
water return (circulation) was being blocked by sediment. Apparently the
water quality was being maintained by the bacteria in the bottom gravel
since there was no filter circulation (fish survived due to good
aeration).

First question: Does the gravel bacteria theory make sence?????

I built a 160 gal miny-pond down in the cellar. I also designed and
built a drip filter (BIOBALLS media) which by theory is large enough to
keep the pond clean. I moved my 4 KOI (now 8") from my 55 gal. fish tank
to the cellar pond. Many of the BIOBALLS were taken from the previous 55
gal. filter. I know that there probably is not enough media to take care
of the fish load but I was hoping that it would slowly balance out.
Amonia going up to 1, Nitrite-0, Nitrate-2-5 ppm). Did three 85% water
changes in three days but amonia levels are still up.

Next question: Can I use some of the gravel from the 55 gal. tank as
bottom gravel for the 160 gal. pond to help in controlling amonia?

Will ZEOLITE gravel work?

Now for the final question: If the water amonia reading is 1.0 and I
change 85% of the pond water then wht does the next water test show the
amonia still high. I would think that changing 85% of the water should
reduce the amonia level by at least that amount. Next day water change
same situation, and the next.

By the way...fish as at bottom of pond but still alive...

Rich