Sick fish

Katra wrote:

Great site! I've bookmarked that for later reference for myself, thanks!

I've not had pet goldies now for several years, but I just adore them.
I had them back when I was a senior in college. 3 in a 15 gallon tank.

What is the maximum biomass (number of goldfish) per gallon of water?
I'm not quite ready to start another goldfish tank, but it's in the
works as is a pond.


1 goldfish per 10 gallon or 3 gallons of water per one inch of fish, whichever
is greater.

Benign Vanilla wrote:

This is a hotly contested topic. Do they feel pain? That depends on how you
define pain. They do have a nervous system, just not one similar to higher
mammals.


I agree with the above poster. I think fish do feel pain, I'm sure I read the
results of a
study where they monitored a fish (a while ago) and the fish was showing what
would
scientifically equate to stress or pain.

In article ,
Geezer From The Freezer wrote:

Katra wrote:

Great site! I've bookmarked that for later reference for myself, thanks!

I've not had pet goldies now for several years, but I just adore them.
I had them back when I was a senior in college. 3 in a 15 gallon tank.

What is the maximum biomass (number of goldfish) per gallon of water?
I'm not quite ready to start another goldfish tank, but it's in the
works as is a pond.


1 goldfish per 10 gallon or 3 gallons of water per one inch of fish, whichever
is greater.

And with goldies, the way they grow, that would change really quick. ;-)
Thanks! I originally had 1 per 5 gallons... They did very well until
they got to be the size of my fist. I like the fantails.

I want to get a bubble eye.

Thank you!
--
K.

Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell--you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

In article ,
Geezer From The Freezer wrote:

Benign Vanilla wrote:

This is a hotly contested topic. Do they feel pain? That depends on how you
define pain. They do have a nervous system, just not one similar to higher
mammals.


I agree with the above poster. I think fish do feel pain, I'm sure I read the
results of a
study where they monitored a fish (a while ago) and the fish was showing what
would
scientifically equate to stress or pain.

Well, I look at it this way...

They are a vertebrate. They have a brain, spinal cord and neural net
throughout their body... just like any mammal or reptile. The thing is,
a fish can't scream so how can we know it's in pain?

I once ran across a guy that had just caught some trout in a stream...
He was gutting them ALIVE! The poor fish was struggling and he was
having trouble.

So, I offered to help him, and showed him how to first kill the trout
the way my parents taught me to. A hard whack or three to the top of the
head, right behind the eyes where the brain is.

Showed him that gutting a dead fish that was not struggling in agony was
a lot easier. :-P

Then I asked him how HE would like to be gutted alive!

Honestly, why can't we have the same compassion for animals as for
humans??? sigh

As for freezing a fish, I think that would work as fish are exothermic.
As they get cold, they get sluggish. I think that would work ok for fish
but not for mammals. Personally, I'd whack them to kill them instantly.
Not easy, but effective. :-P

Just my 2 cents...
--
K.

Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell--you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

They are a vertebrate. They have a brain, spinal cord and neural net
throughout their body... just like any mammal or reptile. The thing is,

a fish can't scream so how can we know it's in pain?

I guess I believe the scientists. They say no nervous system=no pain,
just a reactive system. I believe they feel pressure, the same way a
person can feel a doctor cut into them without pain when they've been
anesthetized first. But I'm open minded to both arguments and would
rather err on the side of caution.

If think I'd rather do the refridgerator thing than whack my little
black goldfish.

Jeanne

"Katra" wrote in message
...
Great site! I've bookmarked that for later reference for myself, thanks!

I've not had pet goldies now for several years, but I just adore them.
I had them back when I was a senior in college. 3 in a 15 gallon tank.

What is the maximum biomass (number of goldfish) per gallon of water?
I'm not quite ready to start another goldfish tank, but it's in the
works as is a pond.
=======================
Since healthy GF get large, I had 4 or 5 to a 55 gallon tank. I started
with about 10 young fish and thinned them out as they grew. I keep about
10 GF in the outside 150 gallon kiddy-pools.
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
Completely FREE softwa
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In article .com,
"JeanneD" wrote:

They are a vertebrate. They have a brain, spinal cord and neural net
throughout their body... just like any mammal or reptile. The thing is,

a fish can't scream so how can we know it's in pain?

I guess I believe the scientists. They say no nervous system=no pain,
just a reactive system. I believe they feel pressure, the same way a
person can feel a doctor cut into them without pain when they've been
anesthetized first. But I'm open minded to both arguments and would
rather err on the side of caution.

If think I'd rather do the refridgerator thing than whack my little
black goldfish.

Jeanne


Yes... I understand. ;-)

We've talked about euthansia and processing on different animal lists.
The most "interesting" conversations have been about how to mercifully
kill chickens and various other farm animals for processing.

I know it's very hard for most people to "whack" their animals even tho'
it's a very good and quick way to put them down, but it's nice to have
alternatives.

Too bad there is no "sleepy" chemical one can put in the water for fish?

I've taken zoology classes with some comparitive anatomy. AFAIK
modern/advanced bony fish (Osteichthyes) do have a fully functional
nervous system???????
--
K.

Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

about using kiddie pools as ponds.. do you bury them? or just set them
on the ground?

I always thought one of those might make a cheap pond (since I move
every 12-24 months spending lots of cash on a nice deep pond doesn't
make much sense). But they're pretty ugly so I'd probably want to build
a little brick wall around it & fill the space with dirt or something.

In article , "~ Windsong ~" P@P
wrote:

"Katra" wrote in message
...
Great site! I've bookmarked that for later reference for myself, thanks!

I've not had pet goldies now for several years, but I just adore them.
I had them back when I was a senior in college. 3 in a 15 gallon tank.

What is the maximum biomass (number of goldfish) per gallon of water?
I'm not quite ready to start another goldfish tank, but it's in the
works as is a pond.
=======================
Since healthy GF get large, I had 4 or 5 to a 55 gallon tank. I started
with about 10 young fish and thinned them out as they grew. I keep about
10 GF in the outside 150 gallon kiddy-pools.

15 gallons per fish... Wow.

What kind of circulation setup do you use in the pools, or is one
necessary in a pool with that much surface area for oxygen diffusion?
--
K.

Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

for those squeamish about whacking their beloved pets, putting them in
an old sock sometimes helps.

I used to have to kill mice for my pet snake, and I couldn't bear to
look at their cute little furry bodies and then smash them But it's
much more humane than letting my snake squeeze them until they're
paralized and then swallow them while they're still alive.

altho i'm pretty sure even with a sock I couldn't do that to one of my
fish. I'd have to have one of my roomates do it, or go with the clove
oil method.