yellow lab

I have a 26g now with two keyholes, a golden ram, a few serpae tetras,
rasboras and one yellow. I had two but one died a few weeks ago.
Most are juveniles. I'd like to get another lab for a "buddy".

First of all do I need another one(not interested in breeding), or
will this one be happy with it's tank companions. Was pretty shy, but
is now joining in with the others.

I think I have a female. If I did get a male will it upset the
"ambiance" of my tank?

TIA



Larry

Those fish shouldn't be mixed together!!!!!!!!!! TOTALLY different water
requirements!!!! Aswell as diet.

--
Craig
________________________________
www.CanadianCray.tk
www.Bluecrayfish.com
"Larry" wrote in message
...
I have a 26g now with two keyholes, a golden ram, a few serpae tetras,
rasboras and one yellow. I had two but one died a few weeks ago.
Most are juveniles. I'd like to get another lab for a "buddy".

First of all do I need another one(not interested in breeding), or
will this one be happy with it's tank companions. Was pretty shy, but
is now joining in with the others.

I think I have a female. If I did get a male will it upset the
"ambiance" of my tank?

TIA



Larry

CanadianCray wrote:
Those fish shouldn't be mixed together!!!!!!!!!! TOTALLY different water
requirements!!!! Aswell as diet.

"Larry" wrote in message

I have a 26g now with two keyholes, a golden ram, a few serpae tetras,
rasboras and one yellow. I had two but one died a few weeks ago.
Most are juveniles. I'd like to get another lab for a "buddy".

First of all do I need another one(not interested in breeding), or
will this one be happy with it's tank companions. Was pretty shy, but
is now joining in with the others.

I think I have a female. If I did get a male will it upset the
"ambiance" of my tank?

TIA


Such a helpful post from Cray. And even top-posted to break my
newsreader. True, yellow labs prefer hard water, and the rest of the
fish soft. But you're wrong about foods. Yellow labs are insectivorous
open-water fish so will be fine on the same diet as rams and keyholes.
And why holler uselessly about an established tank?

Larry,
First, you might see if you can figure why your yellow lab died. You
may have soft or acidic water which great for all your fish except the
yellow lab. If your water is at or below pH 7, I wouldn't add another lab.

You can try adding a male to your tank. It shouldn't be a problem while
the fish are small, However, expect some chaos if the labs decide to
breed despite your intents. They're mouthbrooders so they don't wreak
quite as much havoc as other mbuna but they do get aggressive nonetheless.

Cichlids don't generally need a "buddy" though. They are quite happy as
the king or queen of their own tiny little world. And you don't have to
worry about a lone lab pairing up and breeding.

--
__ Elaine T __
__' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__

Hi Elaine,

Such a helpful post from Cray. And even top-posted to break my
newsreader.

Love your style ;-}

snip
Cichlids don't generally need a "buddy" though. They are quite happy as
the king or queen of their own tiny little world. And you don't have to
worry about a lone lab pairing up and breeding.


I was going to ask Craig where I made mistake but decided to check out
the specs on the fish. Most seemed compatible with my soft water- ph
about 7.5-8. Specs said all my fish would eat almost anything so I
just left it at that. You are right about the lab and soft water.
Hope he/she adjusts.

Maybe I can ask you or others about food selection. Right now I mixed
some veggie flakes, tetra mix type flakes and a pinch of dried blood
worms for each small meal. Any other suggestions?

Thanks Elaine and others who might help me on the food thing.

All the best,

Larry
Ontario

"Such a helpful post from Cray. And even top-posted to break my
newsreader. "

This I don't quite understand, but anyway.

Labidochromis caeruleus (Electric Yellow) likes hard alkaline water around
76-82 degrees with a ph of at least 8 but preferably 8.2. It is really not a
good idea to play around with a fish's PH. Most people don't understand how
PH scale works. The pH scale runs from 0 (acidic) to 14 (alkaline), with
neutral pH 7 in the middle. The pH scale is logarithmic, which means, for
example, that pH 5 is ten times more acidic than pH 6. So by taking a fish
that likes 8.2 & placing it in a tank with a Ph of 7 or 7.5 you are
basically placing it in water that is 10X more acidic than they are supposed
to be in. How would you like that. Also in the wild they live between 6 to
120 feet where they feed on mostly insects & snails. So feeding them a
traditional tropical fish diet is not great.

I did not mean to sound crass before but I think people should provide the
proper environment for their fish if they are going to keep them.

Craig
________________________________
www.CanadianCray.tk
www.Bluecrayfish.com
"Larry" wrote in message
...
Hi Elaine,

Such a helpful post from Cray. And even top-posted to break my
newsreader.

Love your style ;-}

snip
Cichlids don't generally need a "buddy" though. They are quite happy as
the king or queen of their own tiny little world. And you don't have to
worry about a lone lab pairing up and breeding.


I was going to ask Craig where I made mistake but decided to check out
the specs on the fish. Most seemed compatible with my soft water- ph
about 7.5-8. Specs said all my fish would eat almost anything so I
just left it at that. You are right about the lab and soft water.
Hope he/she adjusts.

Maybe I can ask you or others about food selection. Right now I mixed
some veggie flakes, tetra mix type flakes and a pinch of dried blood
worms for each small meal. Any other suggestions?

Thanks Elaine and others who might help me on the food thing.

All the best,

Larry
Ontario

CanadianCray wrote:
"Such a helpful post from Cray. And even top-posted to break my

newsreader. "


This I don't quite understand, but anyway.

Labidochromis caeruleus (Electric Yellow) likes hard alkaline water around
76-82 degrees with a ph of at least 8 but preferably 8.2. It is really not a
good idea to play around with a fish's PH. Most people don't understand how
PH scale works. The pH scale runs from 0 (acidic) to 14 (alkaline), with
neutral pH 7 in the middle. The pH scale is logarithmic, which means, for
example, that pH 5 is ten times more acidic than pH 6. So by taking a fish
that likes 8.2 & placing it in a tank with a Ph of 7 or 7.5 you are
basically placing it in water that is 10X more acidic than they are supposed
to be in. How would you like that. Also in the wild they live between 6 to
120 feet where they feed on mostly insects & snails. So feeding them a
traditional tropical fish diet is not great.

I did not mean to sound crass before but I think people should provide the
proper environment for their fish if they are going to keep them.


The tradition on usenet is to post at the bottom of the previous
message. It happens that some newsreaders don't even handle messages
posted above the previous one very well. I had to cut and paste by hand
into Thunderbird to reply to your previous post.

First, one has to ask what the proper environment is for a tank-raised
fish that is probably many generations away from the wild fish. That
fish may have been tapwater pH for all its life - there's no way of
knowing. As for diet, I bet that Larry's fish was raised on prepared
foods. Insects and snails as a natural diet means it can be kept on a
normal or high-protein flake with maybe freeze-dried or frozen
bloodworms as a treat. Tetras, rams and keyholes will do fine on a
similar diet.

As for pH, fish can adapt pretty well to changes. Yes, there are
10-fold changes for each step on the scale, but near neutrality you're
talking about a shift in protons from 10^-7 M to 10^-8 M. There are
many other things in tankwater that can mess with a fish faster than pH
in the range of about 6.5-8.

Now, I'm with you that fish kept at pH ranges, temperature, hardness,
etc. near what they are found in in the wild can live longer and stay
healthier. However, I've read a million stories on this NG of fish
thriving and even breeding in conditions you would never think could
possibly work. Also, the rift lakes are unusual in their stability.
Most streams and rivers where FW fish are found vary seasonally in
hardness, pH, temperature, food availability, and probably a half-dozen
things I haven't even though of.

Anyway, once someone has purchased a fish and has it in the tank, I
believe that providing concrete suggestions for the particular situation
in the tank is the most help in improving fishkeepers' skill and fishes
lives. Thus, my reaction to your first post.

--
__ Elaine T __
__' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__

Larry wrote:
snip
I was going to ask Craig where I made mistake but decided to check out
the specs on the fish. Most seemed compatible with my soft water- ph
about 7.5-8. Specs said all my fish would eat almost anything so I
just left it at that. You are right about the lab and soft water.
Hope he/she adjusts.

Maybe I can ask you or others about food selection. Right now I mixed
some veggie flakes, tetra mix type flakes and a pinch of dried blood
worms for each small meal. Any other suggestions?


pH 7.5 to 8 doesn't sound so soft to me. Do you get any residue in your
shower or on drinking glasses? You might ask your LFS if they've tested
the local tap water and whether it's soft or hard.

I'm not sure you should be feeding the algae flakes, but I'm curious to
hear what others think. You didn't mention any algae eating fish in
your first post. I'm sure your fish relish the dried bloodworms and
they're great for insectivores like your yellow lab.

I generally maintain all the fish you did mention on TetraMin and/or OSI
freshwater flakes with treats of frozen blooworms. I also like Tetra
ColorBits for midwater feeders like keyholes and rams.

--
__ Elaine T __
__' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__

pH 7.5 to 8 doesn't sound so soft to me. Do you get any residue in your
shower or on drinking glasses? You might ask your LFS if they've tested
the local tap water and whether it's soft or hard.

I'm not sure you should be feeding the algae flakes, but I'm curious to
hear what others think. You didn't mention any algae eating fish in
your first post. I'm sure your fish relish the dried bloodworms and
they're great for insectivores like your yellow lab.

snip

Thanks Elaine,

Played chemist (my wife thought maybe vacuuming the house would have
been a better use of my time), and here are my specs.

ph 8.0
GH 1
KH 11

I have soft water because of the water softener attachment if that
explains anything. I have no algae eaters yet. Two corys though.
LFS sold me the veggie flakes (not sure why). I'll discontinue them.
Fish seem to prefer the coloured ones anyway ;-}

All the best,

Larry
Ontario

Labs are insectivorous(spelling?)? Everything I read said they need a
diet that consists mostly of vegetable matter. I have 5 in a 29 with a
pleco, and have been feeding them cichlid pelets for ages. I recently
switched from them to using mostly crushed up algae disks (which say the
main ingredient is Spirulina) and they started breeding. I would agree
with what I read and argue that a diet low in protein and high in
vegetable matter is better for labs.

I have also read that a lot of protein in a Yellow Lab's diet will cause
it to catch the untreatable and often fatal Malawi bloat.

Larry, you might consider a softened leaf of lettuce at least once in a
while. If you can weight it to get it down to the lab, I'm sure she
(which she is sure to be if she isn't showing any black) will really
appreciate it.

I agree that a male would be a good addition to your tank, but don't
expect them to breed with a pH of seven. They really should have a
higher pH, and in the long run I don't know what the low pH and hardness
your rams require is going to do to their immune system.

I hope the best for you, but let me go on the record as agreeing that
you probably should not be keeping the labs in those kind of conditions.
They are really cool fish, and I would suggest setting up a 29 with some
slate and coral sand for substrate, and they will more than likely
breed. My lab tank that I have set up like that is my favorite of all of
them that I have. Good luck with your fish.



--
Posted via CichlidFish.com
http://www.cichlidfish.com/portal/forums

Deepseafisher wrote:
Labs are insectivorous(spelling?)? Everything I read said they need a
diet that consists mostly of vegetable matter. I have 5 in a 29 with a
pleco, and have been feeding them cichlid pelets for ages. I recently
switched from them to using mostly crushed up algae disks (which say the
main ingredient is Spirulina) and they started breeding. I would agree
with what I read and argue that a diet low in protein and high in
vegetable matter is better for labs.

I have also read that a lot of protein in a Yellow Lab's diet will cause
it to catch the untreatable and often fatal Malawi bloat.

Larry, you might consider a softened leaf of lettuce at least once in a
while. If you can weight it to get it down to the lab, I'm sure she
(which she is sure to be if she isn't showing any black) will really
appreciate it.

I wonder why the books say insectivore since yours are obviously
omnivores and require algae? How confusing. Thanks for posting better
diet info. I was guessing based on the protein level in an insect-only
diet.

--
__ Elaine T __
__' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__