No water changes for one year

"Bob Wennerstrom" nospam wrote in message
...
I've got a 15 gallon tank with about eight platys and a pl*co in it, no
plants. I used to lose a fish every 6-8 weeks. This seemed to happen right
after water changes even though I was using that chlorine remover stuff
and only changing about 2 gallons/week. So I did an experiment beginning
last March. I stopped changing the water. In the last year I have had zero
fishes die. I'm using a Marineland Emperor, wash the filter every couple
weeks and change the filter/carbon thing about every 3 months. No UGF.

So do you think I've got wicked nitrates buit up in the tank and the fish
are just used to it? I keep reading about how important water quality is
and how important water changes are yet I get good results for a whole
year never-ever changing the water, just adding to make up for
evaporation. Carbon doesn't remove nitrates does it?

Comments?

interesting you should bring this up.

i've got one of the lab instructors over in the biology department running
an experiment of the exact same nature. the set up is three non-planted 10
gallon tanks; one with no water changes; one with weekly water changes;
another with bi-monthly water changes. when and if we ever write it up i'll
be sure to follow up here and let everyone know the results. (i would be
more forthcoming with information on it now except i'm not the one
monitoring them.)

tedd.


--
I believe everything exists; unicorns do not exist.

"Tedd Jacobs" wrote in message
...

"Bob Wennerstrom" nospam wrote in message
...
I've got a 15 gallon tank with about eight platys and a pl*co in it,
no plants. I used to lose a fish every 6-8 weeks. This seemed to
happen right after water changes even though I was using that chlorine
remover stuff and only changing about 2 gallons/week. So I did an
experiment beginning last March. I stopped changing the water. In the
last year I have had zero fishes die. I'm using a Marineland Emperor,
wash the filter every couple weeks and change the filter/carbon thing
about every 3 months. No UGF.

So do you think I've got wicked nitrates buit up in the tank and the
fish are just used to it? I keep reading about how important water
quality is and how important water changes are yet I get good results
for a whole year never-ever changing the water, just adding to make up
for evaporation. Carbon doesn't remove nitrates does it?

Comments?

interesting you should bring this up.

i've got one of the lab instructors over in the biology department
running an experiment of the exact same nature. the set up is three
non-planted 10 gallon tanks; one with no water changes; one with weekly
water changes; another with bi-monthly water changes. when and if we
ever write it up i'll be sure to follow up here and let everyone know
the results. (i would be more forthcoming with information on it now
except i'm not the one monitoring them.)

tedd.


Kewl, I love hard data, especially when it doesn't go like you expected,
and you have to figure out why. Thanks in advance tedd!!!
--
www.NetMax.tk

after the tank cycles...water changes are there to dilute urine and stuff
like that from the fish....water changes are the best to dilute this and
keep fish happier...especially in a small tank like yours.

I just think that i wouldnt like living in my own crud in a tiny room
......so why would a fish....the fish can't get away from its own waste!
"Bob Wennerstrom" nospam wrote in message
...
I've got a 15 gallon tank with about eight platys and a pl*co in it, no
plants. I used to lose a fish every 6-8 weeks. This seemed to happen right
after water changes even though I was using that chlorine remover stuff
and only changing about 2 gallons/week. So I did an experiment beginning
last March. I stopped changing the water. In the last year I have had zero
fishes die. I'm using a Marineland Emperor, wash the filter every couple
weeks and change the filter/carbon thing about every 3 months. No UGF.

So do you think I've got wicked nitrates buit up in the tank and the fish
are just used to it? I keep reading about how important water quality is
and how important water changes are yet I get good results for a whole
year never-ever changing the water, just adding to make up for
evaporation. Carbon doesn't remove nitrates does it?

Comments?

No one (fish, human, etc.) would want to breath the same air (or water
in this case) over and over again in a small room either. That's the
conclusion I came to when I was young trying to determine how important
water changes are. Of course my opinion since that determination is -
change some of the water regularly, and don't take short cuts like
chemicals or electrical (just over 10 years ago there was supposedly a
new product that did something like run an electrical current through a
tank and it killed off the bad bugs while not harming the fish so
supposedly water changes weren't necessary,no one believed it and time
telled that that product was all hype, the experts were not
representatives of the water supply industry so in my opinion those
experts that said the device was really worthless were right by saying
water changes are just as necessary as they are before the product was
released and to not use the product - it was too good to be true and
only hype). After all - would you like to breath the same air for
months at a time? Airliners use recycled air and people still get sick
from it all the time. Those experts never got paid for selling water so
they are practically unbiased. My 2 cents - later!

Thanks for backing me up!
I believe, if you are going to keep any animal 9fish in this case) it
deserves a clean environment in which to live
wrote in message
ups.com...
No one (fish, human, etc.) would want to breath the same air (or water
in this case) over and over again in a small room either. That's the
conclusion I came to when I was young trying to determine how important
water changes are. Of course my opinion since that determination is -
change some of the water regularly, and don't take short cuts like
chemicals or electrical (just over 10 years ago there was supposedly a
new product that did something like run an electrical current through a
tank and it killed off the bad bugs while not harming the fish so
supposedly water changes weren't necessary,no one believed it and time
telled that that product was all hype, the experts were not
representatives of the water supply industry so in my opinion those
experts that said the device was really worthless were right by saying
water changes are just as necessary as they are before the product was
released and to not use the product - it was too good to be true and
only hype). After all - would you like to breath the same air for
months at a time? Airliners use recycled air and people still get sick
from it all the time. Those experts never got paid for selling water so
they are practically unbiased. My 2 cents - later!

In article . com,
wrote:
No one (fish, human, etc.) would want to breath the same air (or water
in this case) over and over again in a small room either.

Can you imagine an alien guide to keeping humans as pets?


http://aquaria.net/articles/random/aliens/


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On 9 Mar 2005 21:39:19 -0800, wrote:

No one (fish, human, etc.) would want to breath the same air (or water
in this case) over and over again in a small room either.

But we all do live in the same air and water, don't we? Isn't it more
important to have conditions in the tank that are livable and not
worry about the ingredients?

It is my experience that water changes balance out lots of problems.
It seems to me that filters do not remove solids, they hold them until
the passing water erodes the solids enough they can pass through the
media. Smaller particles can be more efficiently handled by the tank
bacteria.

That's the
conclusion I came to when I was young trying to determine how important
water changes are. Of course my opinion since that determination is -
change some of the water regularly, and don't take short cuts

I totally agree. Addinging spices to a good soup may make it worse.
I will never forget my early tank experience where I decided to adjust
everything. I did something wrong in the pH adjustment and lost
several fish before I could correct the error. I decided that I was
not capable of managing the tank better than natural forces, including
water changes.

like
chemicals or electrical (just over 10 years ago there was supposedly a
new product that did something like run an electrical current through a
tank and it killed off the bad bugs while not harming the fish so
supposedly water changes weren't necessary,no one believed it and time
telled that that product was all hype, the experts were not
representatives of the water supply industry so in my opinion those
experts that said the device was really worthless were right by saying
water changes are just as necessary as they are before the product was
released and to not use the product - it was too good to be true and
only hype). After all - would you like to breath the same air for
months at a time?
Airliners use recycled air and people still get sick
from it all the time. Those experts never got paid for selling water so
they are practically unbiased. My 2 cents - later!

I think you overdo the "same air" theme. The important thing is we do
reuse air and water. It is great that the natural process is good
enough that life has existed without human intervention for a long
time without our help. No new air or water, but biologically recycled.

But, I don't want to ignore that we have learned to manage special
closed systems, such as airliner air, pretty well. As for my tropical
fish tanks, I trust that the simple trust in the biological processes
plus frequent water changes is the best for my abilities.

dick

yeah....we may all be sharing the air and water...but think about it.....we
arent in a room the size of a toilet cubicle...are we....we can escape if
someone does a fart or something like that....you know!
"Dick" wrote in message
...
On 9 Mar 2005 21:39:19 -0800, wrote:

No one (fish, human, etc.) would want to breath the same air (or water
in this case) over and over again in a small room either.

But we all do live in the same air and water, don't we? Isn't it more
important to have conditions in the tank that are livable and not
worry about the ingredients?

It is my experience that water changes balance out lots of problems.
It seems to me that filters do not remove solids, they hold them until
the passing water erodes the solids enough they can pass through the
media. Smaller particles can be more efficiently handled by the tank
bacteria.

That's the
conclusion I came to when I was young trying to determine how important
water changes are. Of course my opinion since that determination is -
change some of the water regularly, and don't take short cuts

I totally agree. Addinging spices to a good soup may make it worse.
I will never forget my early tank experience where I decided to adjust
everything. I did something wrong in the pH adjustment and lost
several fish before I could correct the error. I decided that I was
not capable of managing the tank better than natural forces, including
water changes.

like
chemicals or electrical (just over 10 years ago there was supposedly a
new product that did something like run an electrical current through a
tank and it killed off the bad bugs while not harming the fish so
supposedly water changes weren't necessary,no one believed it and time
telled that that product was all hype, the experts were not
representatives of the water supply industry so in my opinion those
experts that said the device was really worthless were right by saying
water changes are just as necessary as they are before the product was
released and to not use the product - it was too good to be true and
only hype). After all - would you like to breath the same air for
months at a time?
Airliners use recycled air and people still get sick
from it all the time. Those experts never got paid for selling water so
they are practically unbiased. My 2 cents - later!

I think you overdo the "same air" theme. The important thing is we do
reuse air and water. It is great that the natural process is good
enough that life has existed without human intervention for a long
time without our help. No new air or water, but biologically recycled.

But, I don't want to ignore that we have learned to manage special
closed systems, such as airliner air, pretty well. As for my tropical
fish tanks, I trust that the simple trust in the biological processes
plus frequent water changes is the best for my abilities.

dick

The other point not mentioned is diluting the hormones released into
the water. Imagine never changing the water too, surely you
would eventually experience a PH crash too.

I Meant what i said in a practical way. Technically what I meant was if
a human lived in a glass room totally sealed off from the environment,
the size of a bedroom and never got new air for over a month at a time
that air would be horrible if not deadly by the time that over a month
new supply of air arrived. That's basically what I meant and it is
practically comparable to keeping fish in a glass tank, those fish and
other organisms (invertebrates, plants) don't have acres of land or
water enough for natural processes to renew their breathing water. You
are right by what you say but I think you misunderstood what I meant.
I'm glad you agree that a change of some water regularly is better than
not though. Later!