Help with inherited reef tank

You could ... what most ppl do to raise salinity is simply use sal****er
as topoff water (for evap), instead of fresh water. Another method is
to simply use a higher strength salinity water for you water changes.

just a warning

DO NOT do this thru your kalk reactor. you will need to do it manually



--
Richard Reynolds

In article ,
Teri G wrote:

(snip)

Okay, coraline algae is a different ballgame. When ppl say *add algae*
- I think of macro algaes, usually Caulerpas. These you wouldn't want
in your display. Coraline is a solid encrusting algae (what gives LR
it's "purple" color), and no fish that I am aware of, will eat it.

Well, you're just full of useful information! Thank you for once again
correcting my misconceptions! ;-)

Coral Angels do eat algae off rocks, though, right? That's what they're
pecking at?

I was hoping to get *whatever* it is they like to eat by adding some
live rock, but it seems I should wait till the water chemistry is
corrected before doing that. MY LFS guy has given me some sage advice,
too: concentrate on PH, alkalinity, calcium and salinity first of all.

He, along with some others here said I should get some live sand in
there right away, so I did that yesterday! Aragonite, anyway. I'll get
some sand from one of nature's reefs to seed that with soon, but it's
effect on water chemistry should be there now.

The Coral Beauty was very unhappy with the disturbance. I kept the silty
cloud down to a minimum by pouring the sand down through a length of PVC
pipe, but of course the tank clouded up for an hour or so anyway. He was
swimming frantically till lights out, hours after it had cleared. I'm
really starting to worry about him... Everyone else in the tank seems
okay; no obvious signs of stress.

Try some live or frozen brine or frozen mysis for the C. Beauty - see if
it will eat that.

He won't take flake, frozen brine or mysis, and I've tried two different
formulations of frozen mixtures, supposedly good for Pygmy Angels,
etc... He won't take any of them. He seems interested in food, comes out
quickly when the food kits the water and the Damsels go nuts, even
tastes some of what's there, but quickly spits it out and then just
swims around kind of agitated.

Will kalkwasser lower alkalinity and raise PH?

Kalkwasser is a naturally balanced additive, and will raise both calcium
and alk. It also has an extremely high pH, and will raise that as well.

I plan to bring all water parameters into compliance before using the
kalk reactor.

That high, eh? For some reason I thought I was aiming for 1.021. Thanks
for pointing that out.

A good article:

http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/a.../1/default.asp

In summary, 1.025 is the closest to the natural salinity of the reef
where most of our critters come from.

Thanks again, Teri. You've been very helpful!

--Charlie Henderson

Charlie,

Charles Henderson wrote:

Well, you're just full of useful information! Thank you for once again
correcting my misconceptions! ;-)

Not a problem, and I hope you don't see it as trying to "correct" you.
Just trying to help, and share what bit of experience I've gleaned over
the many years of doing this.

Coral Angels do eat algae off rocks, though, right? That's what they're
pecking at?

I haven't kept a dwarf angel for many yeara (beware that most dwarfs
will *nip* at corals) - but I do believe that CB's are primarily algae
eaters in the wild. This doesn't necesarily mean that they will eat
macro algaes like Caulerpa and other display algaes. They may tend to
graze more off of the hair algaes. Dried nori (available in most
oriental markets as well as large grocery stores) is usually a good
choice for algae eaters.
Have you tried live brine? Never met a healthy fish who wouldn't go
crazy for it. Or, see if you can get your hands on some Cyclop-eeze.

On other note - CB's imported from the Phillipines don't always have a
great survival record. Capture & transport practices are not always up
to *snuff*.

I was hoping to get *whatever* it is they like to eat by adding some
live rock, but it seems I should wait till the water chemistry is
corrected before doing that. MY LFS guy has given me some sage advice,
too: concentrate on PH, alkalinity, calcium and salinity first of all.

This is good advice, but truthfully, you're going to need to get the
fish eating *something* soon. It likely will not survive off of
organisms on the LR.
As far as your water chemistry, it isn't bad, and you honestly don't
need to be overly concerned about ca/alk until you anticipate keeping
corals.

He, along with some others here said I should get some live sand in
there right away, so I did that yesterday! Aragonite, anyway. I'll get
some sand from one of nature's reefs to seed that with soon, but it's
effect on water chemistry should be there now.

Well ... I haven't followed this complete conversation to a T, but are
you referring to the possible *buffering* capabilities of aragonite?
If so, this has been pretty much disproven. In order for aragonite to
"buffer' the water, it would need to semi-dissolve. In order to do
this, your pH would have to be so low that pretty much nothing in the
tank would survive. This is how a calcium reactor works - CO2 gas is
injected into the water, which drops the pH to 7.0 or below. This low
pH water partially dissolves the aragonite media, thus making a high
ca/alk (but low pH) effluent.

If you are instead referring to the denitrifying capabilities of a DSB,
it will take several weeks (possibly months), for your sandbed to become
truly *live*, and for it to truly become a denitrification factor.

The Coral Beauty was very unhappy with the disturbance. I kept the silty
cloud down to a minimum by pouring the sand down through a length of PVC
pipe, but of course the tank clouded up for an hour or so anyway. He was
swimming frantically till lights out, hours after it had cleared. I'm
really starting to worry about him... Everyone else in the tank seems
okay; no obvious signs of stress.

I'd try to avoid changes/disturbances as much as possible for a bit of
time. It sounds to me that the fish might be quite stressed - capture,
shipping, introduction into a new tank, etc., may all have taken it's
toll - and this may be why it is not eating.
(snip)

I plan to bring all water parameters into compliance before using the
kalk reactor.

Is it a kalkwasser (Nilsen) reactor, or a Calcium reactor? Neither is
truly effective at *raising* levels, but both are wonderful for
maintaining them. We use both - if you need any help, just yell.

(snip)


Thanks again, Teri. You've been very helpful!

--Charlie Henderson

Any time.

Teri
http://www.reefsanctuary.com

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:47:20 -0500, Teri G
wrote:


Okay, coraline algae is a different ballgame. When ppl say *add algae*
- I think of macro algaes, usually Caulerpas. These you wouldn't want
in your display. Coraline is a solid encrusting algae (what gives LR
it's "purple" color), and no fish that I am aware of, will eat it.

Are you saying you don't want any Caulerpas in your display tank?

Is that the norm for a reef tank? I'm new at this but I kind of like
some Caulerpas in the tank. You have to stay on top of it or it get
to be to much but I like the color it adds and it hasn't been that big
of a deal yet anyway.

Do most reef tanks have no Caulerpas?
Ct Midnite

http://www.geocities.com/ctmidnite53/fish.html

"Ct Midnite" mreef2.10.muffin@spamgourmet.(nospam)com wrote in message
...
On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:47:20 -0500, Teri G
wrote:


Okay, coraline algae is a different ballgame. When ppl say *add algae*
- I think of macro algaes, usually Caulerpas. These you wouldn't want
in your display. Coraline is a solid encrusting algae (what gives LR
it's "purple" color), and no fish that I am aware of, will eat it.

Are you saying you don't want any Caulerpas in your display tank?

Is that the norm for a reef tank? I'm new at this but I kind of like
some Caulerpas in the tank. You have to stay on top of it or it get
to be to much but I like the color it adds and it hasn't been that big
of a deal yet anyway.

Do most reef tanks have no Caulerpas?
Ct Midnite

http://www.geocities.com/ctmidnite53/fish.html

it's really hard, if not impossible, to get rid of it once it's established.
if you miss trimming it for a while, it can go asexual and die all at once,
dumping a large amount of biological waste into your tank in a short period
of time.

Ct Midnite wrote:

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:47:20 -0500, Teri G
wrote:


(snip)

Are you saying you don't want any Caulerpas in your display tank?

There are some macros that I would consider for a reef - Halimeda is
very nice looking, but will deplete calcium levels. "Shaving brush"
algae is nice looking, Chaetomorpha is okay, not invasive or rooting.
Caulerpa, absolutely not (more below).

Is that the norm for a reef tank? I'm new at this but I kind of like
some Caulerpas in the tank. You have to stay on top of it or it get
to be to much but I like the color it adds and it hasn't been that big
of a deal yet anyway.

I know several people (including myself) who have had horrible
experiences with Caulerpa in the display. Given available nutrients,
and sufficient lighting, many caulerpas can literally take over a tank
in a couple weeks - even less time. It is almost impossible to
eradicate once established, and, in many cases, grows much more quickly
than it can be controlled. Caulerpas also have a tendency to release
toxins, as well as all of the nutrients they have absorbed (nitrates,
phosphates, etc.), back into the water column.

We recenly had a war with some Caulerpa prolifera that was somehow (no
clue how) introduced into our tank. It took hold on a piece of LR, and
rooted itself deep into one my favorite sps's - an Anacropora sp.
Within only a few days, it had literally grown totally through the
coral. I had to remove the entire rock from the tank, and tear apart
the coral into several dozen pieces to remove the Caulerpa. Nasty
stuff. We have three different Tangs in the tank - none of which would
touch the stuff.

Do most reef tanks have no Caulerpas?

Most that I know of do not have Caulerpa, but may have one or two other
macros, as mentioned above. The problem with macro algaes is this --
either no fish will touch it, and it will quickly take over a tank,
*or*, the fish will love it, and will have a quick and tasty $20.00
snack. :-)

Teri
http://www.reefsanctuary.com

dear Charlie

I would add some life sand instantly! This will help to stabilize your
whole Nitrogen Bugdet i.e. Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate. You can't do much
wrong with this stuff. Contrary to some other people I truly believe
that the big spike of ammonia is yet to come. Even if the ammonia itself
will not be too dangerous for the fishes, the ammonia will be oxidized
to nitrite, and that IS a killer for any fish. The sooner you get your
nitrogen cycle well established the better it is for your fishes. Don't
worry too much about salinity right now, it is a bit low but many
importers/dealers run their systems on 1.018 or even 1.015.
There is one thing that you did not mention, Phosphate. How much do you
have?

Best wishes from Germany

Jens



Temp. 79
Salinity 1.019
PH 7.9
Ammonia 0

Haven't tested for Nitrite/Nitrate yet.

The animals:

4 Green Chromis
2 Clarkii Clowns
2 Yellowtail Blue Damsels
1 Coral Beauty (medium)
1 Yellow Tang (small)
2 Cleaner Shrimp
6 Blue Leg Hermits

The tank is devoid of algae at this point, and there is no substrate.
Just the old rock that's nothing more than base rock now, with just the
bacteria living in it. I plan to add more live rock to re-seed the tank
with algaes and other micro-critters, plus about a half-inch of
aragonite toward the front of the tank for those that like to forage on
the bottom.

So, what are your suggestions for getting the water chemistry right?
Bring the PH up first? How best to do that? Add the aragonite *first*,
as a buffer? There's a kalkwasser generator in the cabinet that's yet to
be brought online...

I'll be doing more-frequent-than-usual water changes for a time, maybe
10 percent a week for the next few weeks, and I'll gradually raise the
salinity to 1.021 that way.

But first, I await your wisdom.

My humble thanks,

--Charlie Henderson

In article
,
Charles Henderson wrote:

Thank, everyone, for your suggestions. I have a better idea now of what
I need to do. I'll get some Live Sand in there right away, then see what
the PH does after that.

I'll start bringing up the salinity with once-a-week 10 percent water
changes.

I'll get some Nori for the Coral Beauty.

And since we are building a reef tank here, I'll get some fully-cured
Live Rock, a little at a time. But I'll wait on that till after I know
for sure whether this tank is past the ammonia/nitrite spike.

Thanks again, boys and girls! I'll be back with more questions, no doubt!

Cheers,

--Charlie Henderson


So, what are your suggestions for getting the water chemistry right?
Bring the PH up first? How best to do that? Add the aragonite *first*,
as a buffer? There's a kalkwasser generator in the cabinet that's yet to
be brought online...

I'll be doing more-frequent-than-usual water changes for a time, maybe
10 percent a week for the next few weeks, and I'll gradually raise the
salinity to 1.021 that way.

But first, I await your wisdom.

My humble thanks,

--Charlie Henderson