newish pond

What are you raising there, CATfish???.................You had to know that
was coming!

Paul

"Reel Mckoi" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ups.com...
How often are you guys feeding your fish? I do so once in the morning
and again once in the evening. About 3 handfuls per feeding.
Financially speaking, I wouldn't mind toning it down some ;-)

## Don't buy the overpriced koi/GF foods. I buy catfish food for $11 per
50 lb bag at a farm store, Tractor Supply Company. This year I bought 20
lbs of trout chow to add and give them some variety. I also mix in a
small amount of kitten chow with the fish food and feed them twice a day.
I have loads of fish in 2 ponds and an assortment of pools and a 500
gallon tank of young koi. It costs us no more than $20 to $30 a year in
fish food. I also toss in worms and grubs I find in the garden and
compost pile.

Though I do enjoy the respite in the morning watching them eat.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

"Paul in Redland" wrote in message
...
What are you raising there, CATfish???.................You had to know
that was coming!

Paul
================
With the whiskers on some butterfly koi they may as well be CATfish. :-))
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o


"Reel Mckoi" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ups.com...
How often are you guys feeding your fish? I do so once in the morning
and again once in the evening. About 3 handfuls per feeding.
Financially speaking, I wouldn't mind toning it down some ;-)

## Don't buy the overpriced koi/GF foods. I buy catfish food for $11 per
50 lb bag at a farm store, Tractor Supply Company. This year I bought 20
lbs of trout chow to add and give them some variety. I also mix in a
small amount of kitten chow with the fish food and feed them twice a day.
I have loads of fish in 2 ponds and an assortment of pools and a 500
gallon tank of young koi. It costs us no more than $20 to $30 a year in
fish food. I also toss in worms and grubs I find in the garden and
compost pile.

Though I do enjoy the respite in the morning watching them eat.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

On 25 Aug 2005 13:06:03 -0700, wrote:

hey all, we built a 3-3.5k gal pond this year and it's been up and
running for about 6 weeks. we have it piped through a ultimate fluid
art filtration system (rated for 5k). it's got the vortex, bead
filtration, uv (36w), etc. the pond gets full sun and algae has been
an issue since the first week. i have about 20 koi in there now
(4"-10") and they seem ok. i'm thinking of dropping a stronger uv in
there but have noticed that some of the fish are feeding on the algae
and all are always hungry (i swear i could feed them, turn around and
feed them again 30 mins later). they are growing quite well (all were
about 4-5" when i got them and some have doubled in size in this time
frame). PH has peaked in the low 8's during the day dropping back to
mid-high 7's at night.

What sort of algae is this? You say your fish are eating it so I'm
assuming string algae. This isn't bad providing it doesn't get out of
control and become unsightly. Are you adding potash? A tablespoon a
week per 1000 gallons will help the plants take up the nutrients and
starve the algae out.

should i be concerned and go with the larger uv? also, how often
should one be backflushing the system? i've done it a few times now
and it didn't seem too bad. shouldn't the system be taking care of the
algae yet?

A uv will only help with green water algae, it has no effect on string
algae since it doesn't go through the uv.

Is your filtration effective? You should be getting solids in the
bottom of the vortex and not on the bottom of your pond and if they are
left in the bacteria will convert them to nitrates and feed the algae.

Some of the bubblebead filters here
http://www.bubblebeadfilters.co.uk/filter_main.html can be put on a
timer to switch the pump off for fifteen minutes every day and a valve
then opens and cleans the beads. You should see dirty water coming out
when you backflush your bead filter and you can safely change 300
gallons in your size of pond a week.

You say you feed three handfuls of food twice a day but how long do
the fish spend eating this? I like to see it all eaten within two
minutes although some people prefer five. Cutting down on the feeding
will certainly help. I'd be happy with your stocking level providing
the about 20 is 20. Stocking at 1000 galloons for the first fish and
then 100 gallons for each other one is what I see recommended in the UK
but you would certainly have fewer problems with Pauls recommendation
of one fish per 200 gallons. A lot of people go well over this
without any problems, especially if they have a vegifilter.

--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail ngpsm4 (at) infohitsystems (dot) ltd (dot) uk

I am unfamiliar with the various algae types but if I had to guess I
would say string. I notice that it floats to the top during the day
and, when the hyancinth aren't stuck in it, the skimmer will swallow it
up. I will try the potash, thanks!

My fish will eat it up (provided they find it) in about 2-3 minutes.
They've pretty much given up on the shyness thing. I'm hoping we'll
see some babies in the spring. Actually the 20 is 19 since one died a
few days ago-- a shy small platinum that never hung with the group and
never ate in the frenzy :-(

I am a bit concerned if the filtration system is doing it's job given
the quality of the water. I went with this system after a bit of
research and have been disappointed with the results so far.

On 26 Aug 2005 03:13:25 -0700, wrote:

I am unfamiliar with the various algae types but if I had to guess I
would say string. I notice that it floats to the top during the day
and, when the hyancinth aren't stuck in it, the skimmer will swallow it
up. I will try the potash, thanks!

That's string algae or blanket weed, names for the same thing. There
are several different types but you need a microscope to really tell
the difference. A UV only works on the microscopic green water algae so
it's not going to help you with this but without the UV you would
probably have green water :-)

My fish will eat it up (provided they find it) in about 2-3 minutes.
They've pretty much given up on the shyness thing. I'm hoping we'll
see some babies in the spring. Actually the 20 is 19 since one died a
few days ago-- a shy small platinum that never hung with the group and
never ate in the frenzy :-(

I've just noticed that you said the pond has only been up and running
for 6 weeks. That's not long enough for the bacteria to get properly
established unless you put some in to get it started so you are lucky
to have only lost one fish.

I am a bit concerned if the filtration system is doing it's job given
the quality of the water. I went with this system after a bit of
research and have been disappointed with the results so far.

It's still a bit early for the system to have settled down but is there
a specific reason that you are disappointed with the filtration other
than the string algae. Presumably you have a bottom drain and the pump
is situated between the vortex and the bead filter. If the pump is
before the vortex it'll just chew up the waste and make it too fine to
settle out.

--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail ngpsm4 (at) infohitsystems (dot) ltd (dot) uk

filtration.

It really has to do with the string algae. But with the comments, I'm
thinking it's not the filtration that's the problem for controlling
this. I had assumed incorrectly the water was green as a result of
strings attached to the surfaces of the pond and thus seeing green
through the water, but a recent check this morning in a glass cup, the
water is crystal clear-- though admittedly during the sunny days, there
is a lot of particles floating around (today is cloudy and a bit of
rain).

So if I am to understand correctly, the mechanical filtration is to
keep the water in check (0 nitrates/nitrite and 0 ammonia/green water
through uv). plants for controlling algae nutrients and fluxes with ph
due to oxygen exchange/activity. does that sound correct?

On 27 Aug 2005 04:45:16 -0700, wrote:

So if I am to understand correctly, the mechanical filtration is to
keep the water in check (0 nitrates/nitrite and 0 ammonia/green water
through uv). plants for controlling algae nutrients and fluxes with ph
due to oxygen exchange/activity. does that sound correct?

Close :-)
The mechanical filtration is to remove solids. Your vortex is the first
stage of this followed by the bead filter. The bead filter has a large
surface area for bacteria to grow and this bacteria will convert the
ammonia to nitrite and then to nitrate.

The idea is that the plants then take up the nitrates in their growth
but higher plants need potash to enable them to do this and potash is
the one thing that isn't usually present in any amounts in pond water
and it gets consumed by the plants so it's the one chemical that you
really do need to add.

All the UV does is cause the green water algae to stick together and it
can then be filtered out. For a UV to actually sterilise pond water and
kill most of the bacteria you need a ridiculous amount of UV, something
like 1 watt per 5(?) gallons of water. Marine aquariums use UV at this
intensity for sterilisation but it's not practical with a pond and a
pond is open to the environment so it would be almost impossible to
keep the water sterile. I'm not a fan of UV's for a pond because the
green water algae can be a useful indicator that things aren't in
balance.

I think you need to put some potash in your pond and stabilise the PH.
If you look back through some threads I think Jan has explained how to
do this using bicarb and that will stabilise thinks quickly. Long term
you may be able to come up with a way to divert some of your water
through broken seashell or crushed coral. This is slower to act than
bicarb but will automatically buffer your PH for you since it will only
dissolve when the ph is low and as it dissolves it raises the KH and
thus raises the ph, it should then stabilise at about 8.2.

I'm surprised that you have a lot of particles floating around though
with a bead filter. They filter down to around 15 microns one they have
got running so you shouldn't have anything visible if the water flow is
correct. You should be pushing at the very minimum 1500 gallons an hour
through the filters and the outlet and inlets should be positioned so
that you have a flow across the pond from the return to the outlet so
that all of the water is cycled through the filter. If you get it
correct then with visible particles I would expect the flow through the
filter to fall in a few hours so you should have to backflush it every
day for a while at least and the fact that you have only had to do this
a couple of times in six weeks and can see particles makes me think
something is not quite right.


Have you any pics of your setup, especially with regard to the
filtration?

--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail ngpsm4 (at) infohitsystems (dot) ltd (dot) uk

On 26 Aug 2005 03:13:25 -0700, rottyguy70 wrote:

I am a bit concerned if the filtration system is doing it's job given
the quality of the water. I went with this system after a bit of
research and have been disappointed with the results so far.

Sounds to me, for the age, number of gallons & number of fish your pond is
performing just as I would expect it to, imo. Like RTB asked, I too would
like to know what your KH and pH numbers are. ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

Have you tested the KH (Carbonate Hardness) recently? The bead filters use
a lot of carbonates and if they drop, the filter will not be as efficient.
You can raise the KH with baking soda. The KH value should be in excess of
100 and 200 is not unreasonable. If it is running low, the filter will
fail, the pH will crash, and fish will be killed.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

wrote in message
oups.com...
hey all, we built a 3-3.5k gal pond this year and it's been up and
running for about 6 weeks. we have it piped through a ultimate fluid
art filtration system (rated for 5k). it's got the vortex, bead
filtration, uv (36w), etc. the pond gets full sun and algae has been
an issue since the first week. i have about 20 koi in there now
(4"-10") and they seem ok. i'm thinking of dropping a stronger uv in
there but have noticed that some of the fish are feeding on the algae
and all are always hungry (i swear i could feed them, turn around and
feed them again 30 mins later). they are growing quite well (all were
about 4-5" when i got them and some have doubled in size in this time
frame). PH has peaked in the low 8's during the day dropping back to
mid-high 7's at night.

should i be concerned and go with the larger uv? also, how often
should one be backflushing the system? i've done it a few times now
and it didn't seem too bad. shouldn't the system be taking care of the
algae yet?