Storing ocean water

While I am far from an expert on the subject of storing salt water,
I have to say your about the only one that has taken the view of no
aeration being needed. From all the LFS and the multitudes of reef
and fish keepers on all the web based forums, they all seem to agree
it does need aeration..Just let a bucket of salt water set even if
covered, and in a short time it starts to smell pretty rank and stale.

Not that I dissagree as everyone has their own acceptable methods and
proceedures, but just thought I would point this out.



On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 01:46:15 GMT, Wayne Sallee
wrote:
When storing water for a long time it does not need to be
kept circulated, or airated.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Roy wrote on 1/9/2006 6:57 PM:
For a long long time.....However natural sewater you get from the
ocean will have a lot of undesirebale stuff in it which may create
more problems later on. As posted make sure it does not have any
polutants in it..pretty hard to verify that, and of course any organic
material will start decomposing. If you decide to do it, I would keep
it as cool as possible, in a dark container out of sunlight, and keep
it aerated with a powerhead. Unless you use a large airstone they are
not too effective or not as effective as usuing a powerhead to keep it
agitated and aerated.....To be honest there is not a lot of foks in
any of the forums I visit that thinks usuing naturally collected
seawater to be a good thing mainly due to polutants and other
undesireables like algae etc.


On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:51:57 +1000, miskairal mehiding@Oz wrote:

If I were to go to a beach and get salt water, how long could I store it
for and how should it be stored?

I can probably get around 800 litres in one trip (2 1/2 hours each way)
but the water would then be in 200 litre (44gallon) drums with only a
small opening in the top. It's really not practical to go that far for
just one drum of water and hubby's ute is not comfy and airconditioned
and it's summer here.

Would the water go off?



--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder! Koi-ahoi mates....

Roy you are absolutely correct.I have Been working with salt over 20 years
and have dumped many vats of salt water for sitting too long not being
circulated or airated.
"Roy" wrote in message
...
While I am far from an expert on the subject of storing salt water,
I have to say your about the only one that has taken the view of no
aeration being needed. From all the LFS and the multitudes of reef
and fish keepers on all the web based forums, they all seem to agree
it does need aeration..Just let a bucket of salt water set even if
covered, and in a short time it starts to smell pretty rank and stale.

Not that I dissagree as everyone has their own acceptable methods and
proceedures, but just thought I would point this out.



On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 01:46:15 GMT, Wayne Sallee
wrote:
When storing water for a long time it does not need to be
kept circulated, or airated.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Roy wrote on 1/9/2006 6:57 PM:
For a long long time.....However natural sewater you get from the
ocean will have a lot of undesirebale stuff in it which may create
more problems later on. As posted make sure it does not have any
polutants in it..pretty hard to verify that, and of course any
organic
material will start decomposing. If you decide to do it, I would keep
it as cool as possible, in a dark container out of sunlight, and keep
it aerated with a powerhead. Unless you use a large airstone they are
not too effective or not as effective as usuing a powerhead to keep
it
agitated and aerated.....To be honest there is not a lot of foks in
any of the forums I visit that thinks usuing naturally collected
seawater to be a good thing mainly due to polutants and other
undesireables like algae etc.


On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:51:57 +1000, miskairal mehiding@Oz wrote:

If I were to go to a beach and get salt water, how long could I
store it
for and how should it be stored?

I can probably get around 800 litres in one trip (2 1/2 hours each
way)
but the water would then be in 200 litre (44gallon) drums with
only a
small opening in the top. It's really not practical to go that far
for
just one drum of water and hubby's ute is not comfy and
airconditioned
and it's summer here.

Would the water go off?



--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder! Koi-ahoi mates....

Wao, at least someone makes sense.
A few people here just because they can´t see anything in the water they
think is inorganic.

Well, someone ought to tell them that ocean water is a living ecosystems.
It has producers, hervibores and carnivores in it. If it doesn't have light
and O2 it will die and decompose, then anaerobic reactions take place and it
becomes septic thus smelly! Phostphate and Nitrogen levels keep rising and
it will be toxic in no time.

Well, that is Organic Chemistry 101...

jrs
"BriMc" wrote in message
...
Roy you are absolutely correct.I have Been working with salt over 20 years
and have dumped many vats of salt water for sitting too long not being
circulated or airated.
"Roy" wrote in message
...
While I am far from an expert on the subject of storing salt water,
I have to say your about the only one that has taken the view of no
aeration being needed. From all the LFS and the multitudes of reef
and fish keepers on all the web based forums, they all seem to agree
it does need aeration..Just let a bucket of salt water set even if
covered, and in a short time it starts to smell pretty rank and stale.

Not that I dissagree as everyone has their own acceptable methods and
proceedures, but just thought I would point this out.



On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 01:46:15 GMT, Wayne Sallee
wrote:
When storing water for a long time it does not need to be
kept circulated, or airated.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Roy wrote on 1/9/2006 6:57 PM:
For a long long time.....However natural sewater you get from the
ocean will have a lot of undesirebale stuff in it which may create
more problems later on. As posted make sure it does not have any
polutants in it..pretty hard to verify that, and of course any
organic
material will start decomposing. If you decide to do it, I would
keep
it as cool as possible, in a dark container out of sunlight, and
keep
it aerated with a powerhead. Unless you use a large airstone they
are
not too effective or not as effective as usuing a powerhead to keep
it
agitated and aerated.....To be honest there is not a lot of foks in
any of the forums I visit that thinks usuing naturally collected
seawater to be a good thing mainly due to polutants and other
undesireables like algae etc.


On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:51:57 +1000, miskairal mehiding@Oz wrote:

If I were to go to a beach and get salt water, how long could I
store it
for and how should it be stored?

I can probably get around 800 litres in one trip (2 1/2 hours
each way)
but the water would then be in 200 litre (44gallon) drums with
only a
small opening in the top. It's really not practical to go that
far for
just one drum of water and hubby's ute is not comfy and
airconditioned
and it's summer here.

Would the water go off?



--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder! Koi-ahoi mates....

I have never had such problem.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Roy wrote on 1/10/2006 9:31 AM:
While I am far from an expert on the subject of storing salt water,
I have to say your about the only one that has taken the view of no
aeration being needed. From all the LFS and the multitudes of reef
and fish keepers on all the web based forums, they all seem to agree
it does need aeration..Just let a bucket of salt water set even if
covered, and in a short time it starts to smell pretty rank and stale.

Not that I dissagree as everyone has their own acceptable methods and
proceedures, but just thought I would point this out.



On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 01:46:15 GMT, Wayne Sallee
wrote:

When storing water for a long time it does not need to be
kept circulated, or airated.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Roy wrote on 1/9/2006 6:57 PM:
For a long long time.....However natural sewater you get from the
ocean will have a lot of undesirebale stuff in it which may create
more problems later on. As posted make sure it does not have any
polutants in it..pretty hard to verify that, and of course any organic
material will start decomposing. If you decide to do it, I would keep
it as cool as possible, in a dark container out of sunlight, and keep
it aerated with a powerhead. Unless you use a large airstone they are
not too effective or not as effective as usuing a powerhead to keep it
agitated and aerated.....To be honest there is not a lot of foks in
any of the forums I visit that thinks usuing naturally collected
seawater to be a good thing mainly due to polutants and other
undesireables like algae etc.


On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:51:57 +1000, miskairal mehiding@Oz wrote:

If I were to go to a beach and get salt water, how long could I store it
for and how should it be stored?

I can probably get around 800 litres in one trip (2 1/2 hours each way)
but the water would then be in 200 litre (44gallon) drums with only a
small opening in the top. It's really not practical to go that far for
just one drum of water and hubby's ute is not comfy and airconditioned
and it's summer here.

Would the water go off?

miskairal wrote:
If I were to go to a beach and get salt water, how long could I store it
for and how should it be stored?

I can probably get around 800 litres in one trip (2 1/2 hours each way)
but the water would then be in 200 litre (44gallon) drums with only a
small opening in the top. It's really not practical to go that far for
just one drum of water and hubby's ute is not comfy and airconditioned
and it's summer here.

Would the water go off?

Tullock's book:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/189...lance&n=283155

has a section somewhere in the beginning that talks about using natural
sea water. If I recall correctly he is a proponent of this practice. I
believe he recommends collecting the water at least three miles from
shore and storing it in a cool dark place, undisturbed, for two weeks
before use. Maybe someone here with the book can quote the section or
you can look for it in a bookstore to skim. How do you plan on moving
44G drums, each with 367 pounds of water, from the surf to your truck?
Toting 5 gallon buckets would seem to take forever.

Cheers,
Ed

Ed wrote:

Tullock's book
has a section somewhere in the beginning that talks about using natural
sea water.
Emmens "The Marine Aquarium in Theory and Practice" also has a section, which
has similar recommendations.

Emmens states that using the water immediately is "fairly safe, but risk of
disease is always present." If it cannot be used immediately, he recommends
storing it for at least 3 weeks in large containers in the dark. When you're
ready to use it, avoid disturbing any sediment which may have precipitated out.

He also states that mildly polluted water frequently causes an increase in
ammonia and/or nitrite levels, and these levels can remain extremely high for
months, so test these levels before use.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

Thanks George. I think I've been put off for the time being though.
Storing for at least 3 weeks is fine but I wonder how 4-6 months would be?

George Patterson wrote:
Ed wrote:

Tullock's book
has a section somewhere in the beginning that talks about using
natural sea water.

Emmens "The Marine Aquarium in Theory and Practice" also has a section,
which has similar recommendations.

Emmens states that using the water immediately is "fairly safe, but risk
of disease is always present." If it cannot be used immediately, he
recommends storing it for at least 3 weeks in large containers in the
dark. When you're ready to use it, avoid disturbing any sediment which
may have precipitated out.

He also states that mildly polluted water frequently causes an increase
in ammonia and/or nitrite levels, and these levels can remain extremely
high for months, so test these levels before use.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

Page 62. I have the book but he doesn't say how long you can safely
store it.

Getting and moving the water is not a problem, we're on a farm, have a
few pumps around the place and plenty of pipe, a 1 ton ute and a tractor
that can lift things. The pumps have only been used to pump creek water.
We've spent the last 12 years getting 44s of molasses off the back of
the ute and that weighs a whole lot more than salt water. I have a
friend who lives across the road from a boat ramp that I saw used only
once in 3 days (and that was during the busy New Year period).

After all I've read here though I don't think I will be trying it while
I'm still such a novice. It's alright for John Tullock with all his
experience but I need to wait until I can pick up on problems early and
know how to resolve them.

Thanks.


Ed wrote:
miskairal wrote:

If I were to go to a beach and get salt water, how long could I store
it for and how should it be stored?

I can probably get around 800 litres in one trip (2 1/2 hours each
way) but the water would then be in 200 litre (44gallon) drums with
only a small opening in the top. It's really not practical to go that
far for just one drum of water and hubby's ute is not comfy and
airconditioned and it's summer here.

Would the water go off?


Tullock's book:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/189...lance&n=283155


has a section somewhere in the beginning that talks about using natural
sea water. If I recall correctly he is a proponent of this practice. I
believe he recommends collecting the water at least three miles from
shore and storing it in a cool dark place, undisturbed, for two weeks
before use. Maybe someone here with the book can quote the section or
you can look for it in a bookstore to skim. How do you plan on moving
44G drums, each with 367 pounds of water, from the surf to your truck?
Toting 5 gallon buckets would seem to take forever.

Cheers,
Ed

Salt water, whether it be a comercial mix, or sea water,
can be stored as long as you want. It does not go bad.
Naturaly sea water has plankton in it that will die, and
add amonia and nitrite, but the salt water itself will not
go bad, so there is no time limit as to when you have to
use the salt. you can store it for years if you want to.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



miskairal wrote on 1/12/2006 5:10 PM:
Page 62. I have the book but he doesn't say how long you can safely
store it.

There you go again.
Please do yourself a favor! don't comment anymore on a subject that you
know little about...
Listen, read something about BOD5 and TSS and P and N contents on standing
water. Over-the-top levels on either one that will ocurr after plankton's
death and anaerobic bacteria reproduction. Adding a long standing ocean
water to a living aquarium will be like hooking up the exhaust system of
your car to the A/C duct.
I thought you weren't refering to ocean water but to mixed water in your
replies wich is the reason you said that... "The tytle of the thread does
not limit the subject of the discussion."
You see, please stick to those topics you know something about, leave water
chemistry or bio-chemistry to those of us that went to college.

jrs

"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
Salt water, whether it be a comercial mix, or sea water, can be stored as
long as you want. It does not go bad. Naturaly sea water has plankton in
it that will die, and add amonia and nitrite, but the salt water itself
will not go bad, so there is no time limit as to when you have to use the
salt. you can store it for years if you want to.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



miskairal wrote on 1/12/2006 5:10 PM:
Page 62. I have the book but he doesn't say how long you can safely store
it.