blue betta

a while back, not to long ago I had got two red bettas from my LFS that is
closing, they were sick and they had got into a fight at some point before I
got them (fins were a mess) and a couple people on here helped me, and they
are doing great now, fins are even looking better
so maybe I can ask one more time.
My husband will be happy at the end of the month when I will have to go
further then three blocks to bring fish home (LFS is closing) : )
They had two blue betta's (who did not look bad) but after a couple days I
noticed one had a couple spots that looked like ick, at that point I should
have looked close but did not, I started a ick treatment yesterday morning,
today I noticed that one was just staying on the bottom of the tank not
coming up to eat or anything, I got a magnified glass and was looking close
at him and thought I seen black spots but they are pin holes, now I am not
sure if in the light I was using it was ick or these pin holes i was seeing,
I think the pinholes are tail rot (tell me if I am wrong) I have an
antibiotic that says its for tail rot, so I opened the capsule and put some
in, now I don't know if I should treat with ick or antibiotic, I figure
while this is going on I will change water every day, but as of last night
it has not eaten, which is not good, anything else i should be doing?
thanks Nikki

Nikki wrote:
a while back, not to long ago I had got two red bettas from my LFS that is
closing, they were sick and they had got into a fight at some point before I
got them (fins were a mess) and a couple people on here helped me, and they
are doing great now, fins are even looking better
so maybe I can ask one more time.
My husband will be happy at the end of the month when I will have to go
further then three blocks to bring fish home (LFS is closing) : )
They had two blue betta's (who did not look bad) but after a couple days I
noticed one had a couple spots that looked like ick, at that point I should
have looked close but did not, I started a ick treatment yesterday morning,
today I noticed that one was just staying on the bottom of the tank not
coming up to eat or anything, I got a magnified glass and was looking close
at him and thought I seen black spots but they are pin holes, now I am not
sure if in the light I was using it was ick or these pin holes i was seeing,
I think the pinholes are tail rot (tell me if I am wrong) I have an
antibiotic that says its for tail rot, so I opened the capsule and put some
in, now I don't know if I should treat with ick or antibiotic, I figure
while this is going on I will change water every day, but as of last night
it has not eaten, which is not good, anything else i should be doing?
thanks Nikki

Pin holes or splits in the fins are minor damage from poor water quality
or ammonia. They're really common in pet store bettas where the water
isn't changed enough. That sort of damage will heal on its own and your
daily water changes are perfect. If any whitish clumps or fuzz develop
on the fin, try treating daily with a Q-tip and some peroxide. Then dab
on Neosporin (thanks, Frank!).

If you are SURE there was ich, use the ich medicine the same as with
your other bettas.

Now, the not eating and lethargy is troublesome. It's a sign of an
internal parasitic or bacterial infection. To be honest, I don't have
much luck treating fish that have stopped eating. Changing a lot of
water will help his immune system start working better so watch for a
few more days and see if he doesn't improve.

If he doesn't perk up, ping Tynk or IDzine and see whether they have any
ideas. Both are betta breeders and experts.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

I think there may be a bit of overmedicating going on here. Pin holes
in the tail are nothing to worry about and will heal themselves in a
couple of days. Even more serious fin rot can often be treated
successfully by increasing your water changes and monitoring your water
parameters. To put an already stressed fish through a course of
antibiotics may add additional stress.

That said, it's important to finish the course of Ich treatment. As you
may or may not know there are three life stages to these parasites and
they are only affected by the medication a couple of days out of the
cycle so if you stop treating the Ich it's very possible you will miss
those days and they will return in greater numbers.

Whether or not you finish the treatment of antibiotics is sort of up to
you. Antibiotics should be followed through because under-medicating or
shortening the course may lead to antibiotic-resistant bacteria. On the
other hand, unnecessary treatment may be harmful to your betta.

If he doesn't perk up, ping Tynk or IDzine and see whether they have any
ideas. Both are betta breeders and experts.

I don't breed bettas I just keep them... love too, but I don't ...
That's all Tynk.

Actually, I'm not an expert either. Sounds nice though. I think of
experts as those crazy guys at the aquarium clubs who speak of aquarium
fish only in their Latin names and use lots of acronyms. You know, the
one's who spend all their wife's hard earned money for one more trip to
Malaysia, China, South America... etc to wade through leech infested
swamps and photograph long lost wild species. I watch them in awe.

IDzine01 wrote:
I think there may be a bit of overmedicating going on here. Pin holes
in the tail are nothing to worry about and will heal themselves in a
couple of days. Even more serious fin rot can often be treated
successfully by increasing your water changes and monitoring your water
parameters. To put an already stressed fish through a course of
antibiotics may add additional stress.

That said, it's important to finish the course of Ich treatment. As you
may or may not know there are three life stages to these parasites and
they are only affected by the medication a couple of days out of the
cycle so if you stop treating the Ich it's very possible you will miss
those days and they will return in greater numbers.

Whether or not you finish the treatment of antibiotics is sort of up to
you. Antibiotics should be followed through because under-medicating or
shortening the course may lead to antibiotic-resistant bacteria. On the
other hand, unnecessary treatment may be harmful to your betta.

I fully agree with IDzine01. = )

Increase water changes, don't rush into medicating, and finish the Ich
meds. I prefer Quick Cure to any other Ich med...even those with the
same ingredients (RidIch and RidIch+) don't seem to work as fast and I
don't know why.
I also treat a full 7 days (bottle says like 3). The life cycle of the
Ich parasite can only be killed at one stage of it's life cycle, and
it's not the stage of white spots you see on the fish either.
This is why a full 7-10 day treatment is needed.
I also will NOT treat with quick cure if a new fish shows a spot or
two. I first do another water change and some salt.
If your water is kept clean, and you catch it fast, and the fish isn't
suffering from anything else that would tax it's immune system, they
99% oif the time fight the little buggers themselves without the need
for harsh medications....which all Ich meds are.
Same with antibiotics...never treat unless you are absolutely sure what
you are treating and that it's the proper antibiotic. Many just treat
gram negative or gram positive strains of bacteria.....and not every
infection is the same, so you really need to know what you are dealing
with before treating.
Some antibiotics are broad spectrum and treat both gram positive and
negative strains of bacterial infections, but again, never treat unless
you are absolutely sure of what it is your fish is fighting.

"IDzine01" wrote in message
ups.com...
I don't breed bettas I just keep them... love too, but I don't ...
That's all Tynk.

I have never breed betta's, but have raised guppy fry which turned out very
pretty (not that i had to do much, but i'll take credit for it anyway) but i
have tried to get a female betta, no local pet stores carry them... said
they are ungly...hmm...so i found a place that breeds all kind of neat fish
and they are going to order them for me, i figured i may be better off with
my own instead of buying them sick from the store around here.
Nikki

IDzine01 wrote:
If he doesn't perk up, ping Tynk or IDzine and see whether they have any
ideas. Both are betta breeders and experts.

I don't breed bettas I just keep them... love too, but I don't ...
That's all Tynk.

Actually, I'm not an expert either. Sounds nice though. I think of
experts as those crazy guys at the aquarium clubs who speak of aquarium
fish only in their Latin names and use lots of acronyms. You know, the
one's who spend all their wife's hard earned money for one more trip to
Malaysia, China, South America... etc to wade through leech infested
swamps and photograph long lost wild species. I watch them in awe.

I totally feel the same way IDzine01!!
I just have yrs of hands on experience with these fish and I have
concentrated on them as well as Angelfish for most of those yrs.
Also...I made just about every mistake a newbie could at the beginning,
so I like to try and help folks avoid those blunders I have already
perfected. LOL


Actually, I'm not an expert either. Sounds nice though. I think of
experts as those crazy guys at the aquarium clubs who speak of aquarium
fish only in their Latin names and use lots of acronyms. You know, the
one's who spend all their wife's hard earned money for one more trip to
Malaysia, China, South America... etc to wade through leech infested
swamps and photograph long lost wild species. I watch them in awe.

IDzine01 wrote:
I think there may be a bit of overmedicating going on here. Pin holes
in the tail are nothing to worry about and will heal themselves in a
couple of days. Even more serious fin rot can often be treated
successfully by increasing your water changes and monitoring your water
parameters. To put an already stressed fish through a course of
antibiotics may add additional stress.

That said, it's important to finish the course of Ich treatment. As you
may or may not know there are three life stages to these parasites and
they are only affected by the medication a couple of days out of the
cycle so if you stop treating the Ich it's very possible you will miss
those days and they will return in greater numbers.

Whether or not you finish the treatment of antibiotics is sort of up to
you. Antibiotics should be followed through because under-medicating or
shortening the course may lead to antibiotic-resistant bacteria. On the
other hand, unnecessary treatment may be harmful to your betta.

I completely agree with you about antibiotics. With only one dose, I'd
discontinue treatment. The worst thing for resistance seems to be
stopping after three or four days instead of going for a full course of
seven to ten days. Even a full course of antibiotics can leave some
resistant bacteria, which is why they should be a last resort if you
choose to use them at all.

I wasn't sure from Nikki's post whether she really saw ich, or only
pinholes in the fins. No sense using ich meds if there was no ich.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

"IDzine01" wrote in message
oups.com...
I think there may be a bit of overmedicating going on here.

Yeah your right...i kind of over reacted...when i seen the white spots
(which i am thinking it was ich, because if i remember correct they were on
the body also, i used the first dose of ich +

Pin holes
in the tail are nothing to worry about and will heal themselves in a
couple of days. Even more serious fin rot can often be treated
successfully by increasing your water changes and monitoring your water
parameters.

Yeah they were in a throw away cup at the lfs, so daily water changes will
probably help
is there a difference between pin holes in the fins, and tail/fin rot?? and
how do you tell which is which

To put an already stressed fish through a course of
antibiotics may add additional stress. That said, it's important to
finish the course of Ich treatment. As you may or may not know there are
three life stages to these parasites and
they are only affected by the medication a couple of days out of the
cycle so if you stop treating the Ich it's very possible you will miss
those days and they will return in greater numbers.

I'm just going to stick with the rid ich+ instead of antibiotics, yes i
know about the cycle, the last bettas i got from this place had ich, altum
wrote me down a schedule to treat the ich, and they came though great, and
are doing very well now, but they never acted sick like this one is, not
swimming around or eating.


Whether or not you finish the treatment of antibiotics is sort of up to
you. Antibiotics should be followed through because under-medicating or
shortening the course may lead to antibiotic-resistant bacteria. On the
other hand, unnecessary treatment may be harmful to your betta.

I'm just sticking with the ich+ and daily water changes, i would feel so
much better if i could get him to eat, i guess i will see what happens. i
keep all my betta tanks on 80-82 degrees, i know thats fine with ich but if
by chance its fin rot, heat wont make it worse right?

thanks Nikki

Nikki wrote:
"IDzine01" wrote in message
oups.com...

Yeah they were in a throw away cup at the lfs, so daily water changes will
probably help
is there a difference between pin holes in the fins, and tail/fin rot?? and
how do you tell which is which

Fins can have pin holes, splits, or look ragged from physical damage or
poor water conditions. Some people call that "fin rot", but it's easily
cured with clean water.

Sometimes, if the bad water quality continues, damaged fins get
bacterial or fungal infections. They will have whitish stuff on the
edges, or fluffy patches. Sometimes fins don't even show anything
obvious, but they keep getting worse rather than healing. That is what
I call "fin rot." It is an active infection and requires a treatment
beyond clean water. Your Q-tip with peroxide is a good one.

A good aquarist should almost never see real "fin rot." As soon as fin
damage is evident, you prevent infection from setting in by changing a
lot of water and fixing the water quality problems (like cleaning the
filter and vacuuming the gravel).

I'm just sticking with the ich+ and daily water changes, i would feel so
much better if i could get him to eat, i guess i will see what happens. i
keep all my betta tanks on 80-82 degrees, i know thats fine with ich but if
by chance its fin rot, heat wont make it worse right?

It doesn't sound like his fins are infected, only damaged. Heat won't
make it worse. Your fish needs the heat to help him fight off whatever
is keeping him from eating. Can you get live brine shrimp? You should
wait say...three days, and then offer him some brine shrimp.
Sometimes bettas will strike at something wiggling and start eating a
little better.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com