Sick fish

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 11:56:56 -0500, "Benign Vanilla"
wrote:

===
==="Katra" wrote in message
...
===snip
=== I know this is probably a stupid question, but what is the difference
=== between a koi and a goldfish, and how much are baby koi worth?

2 totally different fish. One is from the minnow famiy the other is
from the carp family but they will interbreed.

As to worth, thats up to you. I give lots of fingering koi away
FREE,,,,,,same for GF. Wally World gets about $5 for a 3" koi, some
paces get 40 or 50 bucks for small koi, some sell them for hundreds
and thousands of bucks..........Import koi of a known breeded sell for
more, common koi are worth what you think is a fair price if your
selling or buying.......most koi being sold in petshops and garden
centers for the most part are over priced for what they are.

REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
Jo Ann asked Dr. Sooooooooooooooooolow to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at Dandy Orandas
Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS

In article ,
"Benign Vanilla" wrote:

"Katra" wrote in message
...
snip
EPDM is a heavy gauge rubber material. It is UV resistant and quite tear
resistant. It is a great liner material, aside from it's weight. For my
pond, the liner weight probably close to a hundred pounds.

Cool. Since I'm planning on putting in a pond soon, it's nice to get all
the hints I can!!!
snip

I prefer the EPDM because of cost. The weight does not bother me. How many
times am I really going to pick it up? LOL. Xavan, and Permalon are other
options. Very light weight but a bit more pricey. PVC has been used as well,
but it is sensitive to UV and will breakdown eventually, so it's IMHO a bad
choice.

I have a few bits and pieces of liner info here,
http://www.iheartmypond.com/design/liners/.

So you don't recommend the pre-formed pond liners at all?
--
K.

Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

In article ,
"Benign Vanilla" wrote:

"Katra" wrote in message
...
snip
I know this is probably a stupid question, but what is the difference
between a koi and a goldfish, and how much are baby koi worth?
snip

There are no stupid questions. Nothing is obvious until it is pointed out to
you.

Koi,
http://species.fishindex.com/species...arpio_koi.html
Goldfish,
http://species.fishindex.com/species...us_goldfish.ht
ml


Not even the same Genus... :-) Thanks for the links! I have bookmarked
them.

Koi sure come in a huge variety of colors!

Thank you!
--
K.

Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

In article ,
(Nedra Sucks) wrote:

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 11:56:56 -0500, "Benign Vanilla"
wrote:

===
==="Katra" wrote in message
...
===snip
=== I know this is probably a stupid question, but what is the difference
=== between a koi and a goldfish, and how much are baby koi worth?

2 totally different fish. One is from the minnow famiy the other is
from the carp family but they will interbreed.

Since they are not in the same genus, would the offspring likely be
sterile? That happens when muscovie ducks and any standard barnyard duck
such as mallards, pekins and runners crossbreed...


As to worth, thats up to you. I give lots of fingering koi away
FREE,,,,,,same for GF. Wally World gets about $5 for a 3" koi, some
paces get 40 or 50 bucks for small koi, some sell them for hundreds
and thousands of bucks..........Import koi of a known breeded sell for
more, common koi are worth what you think is a fair price if your
selling or buying.......most koi being sold in petshops and garden
centers for the most part are over priced for what they are.

Is it common for them to breed spontaniously in a pond?
I had my 3 fantail goldies for 4 years and they never did anything.
'course they could have all been the same sex, but what are the odds?
--
K.

Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell--you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...

I think the only real solution is depth. Heron seem to be limited at the 3
foot depth, and I am sure Racoons are much less.
========================
I saw then stand on the edge of my 2000 gallon pond which is deeper than 3'
and wait, and wait, standing dead still, never moving until a fish swam
within reach - and WHAM! Goodbye $15 fish! When something does not move
for a period of time the fish will ignore it. For $20 I bought a net and
never lost another GF or koi. :-)) I hate to see people waste money and
lose fish with sprinklers, electric fences, wire strung all over the pond
and still end up with a $20 net in the end.
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Katra" wrote in message
...

## Me too, but frogs don't appeal to me as food.

Never had frog legs?

$$ No.

## And those water snakes love fresh fish. :-( I found the best price
on
nets at ACE Hardware.

There is one near here, but Lowe's also has both pond and gardening
supplies, including both deer and bird netting. Deer netting comes in
larger lengths and widths for a cheaper price and is almost identical.
I'll probably look at that first.

$$ I went for the least visible netting. The fine black bird netting
worked.

## Once herons know your pond is there you cannot get rid of them.
Shooting
them is illegal so nets are the only answer.

I understand... I know they are protected but I'll bet you are tempted
sometimes. ;-) It's like, with all the lakes and rivers in this area,
why are you bothering my pond???

$$ Exactly! Ponds of koi and GF are like taking candy from a baby for
herons - such easy pickings for the birds. As for the King Fishers -
nothing but nets work. They were a lesser problem here in TN.

## We have few doves here and they're not a problem. We used the fake
owls
and snakes in hopes of discouraging the herons and King Fishers.

I've never seen a kingfisher in this area.
But that does not mean they are not here.

$$ I never saw them either until we put the ponds in. I saw it dive into
one pond and in seconds flew away with a beautiful koi. :*( It seemed to
just drop out of the sky. So we had both KF and herons in our ponds.
Believe me we lost so many fish that we said if the nets failed we would
give up fish and let the snakes and bullfrogs have the ponds. The last
straw was the beautiful yellow transparent butterfly koi the herons got. He
was my favorite with long flowing gossamer fins and tail... and very
unusual. I went to ACE that very afternoon and by sundown the ponds were
netted. I drape the net over those cheap garden fences that look like
upside-down Us. They come in 10' lengths for about $3 at Wally World. I
bought the dark green ones. It holds the way above the surface of the
water. Only tiny fogs, newts and baby snakes can get through the net.

## Yes, you'll learn a lot here and on rec.ponds.

I'm not on rec.ponds, but I probably should join.
From what I've seen so far, there is a LOT more to maintaining a pond
than just digging a hole in the ground, putting in a waterfall/filter
system and letting it go!
I need to research it thoroughly before starting it!

$$ Yes, that would be an excellent idea. :-) Don't jump into something you
may regret later.
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway."
~~~~~~~ }((((((o
"They laugh because I'm different, I laugh because they're all the same."
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
Completely FREE softwa
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Katra" wrote in message
...
I know this is probably a stupid question, but what is the difference
between a koi and a goldfish, and how much are baby koi worth?
--
K.
==========================
You can Google both koi and goldfish. You will get more information then
you can imagine. Where price is concerned you get what you pay for as with
everything else. However,.... I would get to my favorite dealers when I
knew he was getting in a new shipment of koi and pick the most unusual and
prettiest before anyone else got there. :-) Prices ranged from $5.99 for
small koi to well over $100 which I would not pay for fish.

I once found a tank of 1" koi at Petsmart for $1.99 each and bought 6. Two
turned out to be gorgeous fish and I sold the rest for $25 each 2 years
later. I kept the beauties. :-)
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway."
~~~~~~~ }((((((o
"They laugh because I'm different, I laugh because they're all the same."
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
Completely FREE softwa
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Katra" wrote in message
...
snip
I have a few bits and pieces of liner info here,
http://www.iheartmypond.com/design/liners/.

So you don't recommend the pre-formed pond liners at all?
snip

Aside from PVC, which is not UV tolerant, I think your liner choice is very
subjective. My main pond and VF are EPDM lined. I started to install a
second pond this past summer using a free rigid liner. I ended up bagging
the project. I found digging the hole to match the rigid liner was much
work.


--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

"Katra" wrote in message
...
snip
Since they are not in the same genus, would the offspring likely be
sterile? That happens when muscovie ducks and any standard barnyard duck
such as mallards, pekins and runners crossbreed...
snip

Yes. They will interbreed. I call the offspring Koinkey. Koi Donkeys. I
have one in my 55 gallon aquarium. We found and rescued him from the VF just
before it froze.

Is it common for them to breed spontaniously in a pond?
I had my 3 fantail goldies for 4 years and they never did anything.
'course they could have all been the same sex, but what are the odds?
snip

My fish have spawned numerous times, and without me even playing romantic
music near the pond.


--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com/animals/fish/spawning
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

"~ Windsong ~" P@P wrote in message
...

"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...

I think the only real solution is depth. Heron seem to be limited at the
3
foot depth, and I am sure Racoons are much less.
========================
I saw then stand on the edge of my 2000 gallon pond which is deeper than
3'
and wait, and wait, standing dead still, never moving until a fish swam
within reach - and WHAM! Goodbye $15 fish! When something does not move
for a period of time the fish will ignore it. For $20 I bought a net and
never lost another GF or koi. :-)) I hate to see people waste money and
lose fish with sprinklers, electric fences, wire strung all over the pond
and still end up with a $20 net in the end.

Sorry, I was not clear. What I meant was the Heron, from what I have read,
can't get fish below 3'. I have seen video and read stories of them standing
still for days, waiting for the fish to water depth ratio to come within a
strikeable depth. You are correct about that. They are very patient eaters.


--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com/animals/birds/heron
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.