Starting a reef tank

"George Patterson" wrote in message news:M3BOi.3152$Cd7.1304@trnddc03...
Big Habeeb wrote:

Thankfully, not too late...are these really preferable over
'traditional' powerheads?

I repeat. They move more water and use less electricity.

One of the side effects of moving more water is that you need fewer of them.

One of the side effects of using less juice is that they put less heat into the
water. Admittedly, that's only a problem during the Summer, but it's the
difference between having to spend $600+ on a chiller and not buying one for me.

Have you measured a MaxiJet power consumption with a mentioned mod kit?
Power consumption drasticaly changes with the load put on the pump.
Who knows, maybe a 20W powerhead using this 20W in normal configuration
will use only 5W when used with the turbine kit and moving similar amount
of water than Hydor pumps. If not measured we cannot tell for sure.
And this is not enough to measure the current because the magnetic pumps
will have very strong influence of the power factor, so the measurement will
have to take this for consideration. The best will be to use power meter.

"August West" wrote in message ...

"Pszemol" wrote in message
...
I could also recomend you read this one:
"Natural Reef Aquarium" by John H. Tullock
Here is cheaper than B&N
http://www.petstore.com/ps_ViewItem-...uct-BKNRA.html
Full of great ideas for a many different kind of aquariums.

And if you ever think of getting clownfish and, more importantly
sea anemones, I would consider reading following two
positions mandatory BEFORE YOU BUY THESE ANIMALS:

"Clownfishes" by Joyce D. Wilkerson
"Host Sea Anemone Secrets" by Dr. Ron Shimek

I think I'll read that also. Thanks Pszemol

Smart move if you want to keep clarki clowns and anemone.

"August West" wrote in message ...
I do not know if this was mentioned earlier in the thread or not, but set up
a "quarantine" tank also. Filter, lights (I have a regular flourescent light
for a 20 gallon tall tank)and thats about it. Make sure you quarantine all
fish before adding them to the tank, or you will end up like I did, with an
ich explosion that wipes out all your fish except the lawnmower blenny. And
I did it AGAIN before I finally set up the quarantine tank. Duh....
No losses after making sure I quarantine and medicate before adding to the
main tank.

Every book I have read talks about quarantine/hospital tank,
so I am sure Big Habeeb knows about the quarantine from
his reading of four books ;-)

On Oct 12, 10:10 am, "Pszemol" wrote:
"August West" wrote in om...
I do not know if this was mentioned earlier in the thread or not, but set up
a "quarantine" tank also. Filter, lights (I have a regular flourescent light
for a 20 gallon tall tank)and thats about it. Make sure you quarantine all
fish before adding them to the tank, or you will end up like I did, with an
ich explosion that wipes out all your fish except the lawnmower blenny. And
I did it AGAIN before I finally set up the quarantine tank. Duh....
No losses after making sure I quarantine and medicate before adding to the
main tank.

Every book I have read talks about quarantine/hospital tank,
so I am sure Big Habeeb knows about the quarantine from
his reading of four books ;-)

Yes I'm aware of quarantine tanks, and in fact have broken down my 36
bow front tank from its previous cichlid setup, and am going to be
changing over to a quarantine salt tank. Most of what I have will be
sufficient for that purpose, though I will likely upgrade the
filter...nothing wrong with my tetratec, and I've run sal****er on it
before, but its getting old, and is painfully loud. I feel OK about
ditching it...getting 5 years or so service out of a 40 dollar filter
- I'd say I got my money's worth.

Mitch

"Big Habeeb" wrote in message oups.com...
Yes I'm aware of quarantine tanks, and in fact have broken down my 36
bow front tank from its previous cichlid setup, and am going to be
changing over to a quarantine salt tank. Most of what I have will be
sufficient for that purpose, though I will likely upgrade the
filter...nothing wrong with my tetratec, and I've run sal****er on it
before, but its getting old, and is painfully loud. I feel OK about
ditching it...getting 5 years or so service out of a 40 dollar filter
- I'd say I got my money's worth.

Good thinking, Mitch, you are better at the start than most of us
who did not read books you have, and learned on our own mistakes.

On Oct 12, 2:42 pm, "August West"
wrote:
Good, that quarantine tank will more than pay for itself the first time you
do NOT have an ich explosion. Which for me happened as soon as I could lose
over 200 dollars worth of fish. It was always the fish that put me over 200
dollars that did it. First time was a Jawfish and a scissortail goby that
did it, second time a Tennenti Tang. Then it dawned on me that maybe, just
maybe, everybody else was right and possibly I was wrong. I even dosed the
whole tank w/potassium permangenate once, no joy.

"Pszemol" wrote in message

...



"Big Habeeb" wrote in message
roups.com...
Yes I'm aware of quarantine tanks, and in fact have broken down my 36
bow front tank from its previous cichlid setup, and am going to be
changing over to a quarantine salt tank. Most of what I have will be
sufficient for that purpose, though I will likely upgrade the
filter...nothing wrong with my tetratec, and I've run sal****er on it
before, but its getting old, and is painfully loud. I feel OK about
ditching it...getting 5 years or so service out of a 40 dollar filter
- I'd say I got my money's worth.

Good thinking, Mitch, you are better at the start than most of us
who did not read books you have, and learned on our own mistakes.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You know its funny to read about these ich outbreaks - I was under the
impression that ich had a very difficult time surviving in salt, this
belief even further cultivated because I never had a problem with
outbreaks in any of my sal****er fish only tanks...but constantly had
ich issues in my standard freshwater setups. Not doubting anyone of
what they're saying, don't get me wrong, I guess I just got very lucky
in my salt setups in the past. It also probably helped that for the
most part I stuck with fish that were very hardy, and really only
wound up losing fish when my puffer got too big and too hungry for the
tank (if you've never seen a 10" porcupine puffer in a 36 gallon tank,
consider yourselves lucky). I wound up breaking down the tank and
turning the puffer over to the LFS after watching him decimate every
other thing in the tank. There was no stopping him either, despite
overfeeding him with shrimp etc. Nasty bastich that he was, I almost
hoped that ich would have taken him out, but no joy on that. However,
this was a 'learn from my own mistakes" scenario, and I will NEVER
keep a porcupine puffer again, despite how cool they are to look at.

"Big Habeeb" wrote in message oups.com...
You know its funny to read about these ich outbreaks - I was under the
impression that ich had a very difficult time surviving in salt, this
belief even further cultivated because I never had a problem with
outbreaks in any of my sal****er fish only tanks...but constantly had
ich issues in my standard freshwater setups.

Parasites we are talking about are known in freshwater and
sal****er environments. They are killed by sudden changes
of salinity, and one of the method of curing infected sal****er
fish is freshwater dip for some short time (until fish starts to
show signs of clear and heavy discomfort).

Ich in a reef tank is not curable with chemicals. Chemicals would
kill all your beneficial live rock dwellers. So it is even more
important to quarantine when you have a reef tank...

Preaching this I have to admit that quite recently I added a piece
of live rock into my old, stable setup running without ich for
many YEARS and I got instant ich infection on my tang fish.
Knowing how difficult is to cure ich in a reef and how deadly
it can be to the fish I had to get 2 skunk cleaner shrimps.
(Lysmata amboinensis)
They are beautiful to look at and also a perfect biological
weapon in a battle agains ich. They pick the parasite from
the fish and eat it, so I could recommend these little buggers
for you as a kind of "ich insurance". It was quite amazing
to watch this fish like a kind of doctor curing my fish and the
fish willingly subject itself to the procedure... However it
was not as spectacular as in the "Finding Nemo" movie... ;-)

This does not free you from the duty of keeping quarantine tank
since ich is not the only the problem introduced with new fish.

On Oct 12, 6:37 pm, "Pszemol" wrote:
"Big Habeeb" wrote in ooglegroups.com...
You know its funny to read about these ich outbreaks - I was under the
impression that ich had a very difficult time surviving in salt, this
belief even further cultivated because I never had a problem with
outbreaks in any of my sal****er fish only tanks...but constantly had
ich issues in my standard freshwater setups.

Parasites we are talking about are known in freshwater and
sal****er environments. They are killed by sudden changes
of salinity, and one of the method of curing infected sal****er
fish is freshwater dip for some short time (until fish starts to
show signs of clear and heavy discomfort).

Ich in a reef tank is not curable with chemicals. Chemicals would
kill all your beneficial live rock dwellers. So it is even more
important to quarantine when you have a reef tank...

Preaching this I have to admit that quite recently I added a piece
of live rock into my old, stable setup running without ich for
many YEARS and I got instant ich infection on my tang fish.
Knowing how difficult is to cure ich in a reef and how deadly
it can be to the fish I had to get 2 skunk cleaner shrimps.
(Lysmata amboinensis)
They are beautiful to look at and also a perfect biological
weapon in a battle agains ich. They pick the parasite from
the fish and eat it, so I could recommend these little buggers
for you as a kind of "ich insurance". It was quite amazing
to watch this fish like a kind of doctor curing my fish and the
fish willingly subject itself to the procedure... However it
was not as spectacular as in the "Finding Nemo" movie... ;-)

This does not free you from the duty of keeping quarantine tank
since ich is not the only the problem introduced with new fish.

Pszemol,

Yah I know there's other bad stuff, which is why I am setting up the
quarantine tank - I think my surprise was more in general that ich was
an issue (not that I needed to keep a Q tank) - One of the solutions
I'd used with a decent amount of success in battling ich in the past
was adding a small amount of sea salt to my freshwater tanks....not
enough to even impact the spc gravity particularly, but it seemed to
do a good job of battling off the nasty ich...in most cases even more
so than the recommended chemicals (and I prefer not to use chemicals
anyway). I guess I didn't realize that it was the change in salinity,
not merely the PRESENCE of salinity which did the trick. While I've
done alot of reading, I admit that much of what I learned about
keeping freshwater tanks was learned through trial and error...so
while I generally got to the right solution, it wasn't always
necessarily for the right reasons, apparently. As with anything else,
it's a learning process.

Meanwhile an update on the tanks. The cichlid tank is gone...its been
broken down and put away for the moment. The filter is goneski (way
WAY overdue), and all the other assorted items have been cleaned,
sanitized, and prepped for new life as a quarantine tank. The big
tank, the 72g jobbie, now sports around 86 pounds of live rock (added
an additional 16 pounds this weekend to make it a bit more full), and
is cycling nicely. I've started to see some ammonia going up, albeit
slowly, and I'm just letting it be. Very excited to see that it's
starting to do what it's supposed to do. Had a long chat with the
local fish shop (the one I really trust) over the weekend while
staring at his 30 year old coral (its a leather of some kind, but is
now TREMENDOUS) and discussed various livestock options etc for when I
am eventually ready to add. Most likely the first live coral going
into the tank will be a leather or two and a brain...be decent enough
for a start. Pretty, and according to the LFS, fairly hardy choices.
We also did approach the topic of anemones and whether or not they are
advisable for the beginning reef keeper. From what he's saying, a
'bubble tip anemone' is a solid choice...hardy, easy to breed, and
will plan nicely with the other corals/fish that I anticipate adding.
I dont want anyone to get paranoid: I am not going to be dropping all
this stuff in immediately, and am not rushing to put ANYTHING in. I'm
just starting to plan on what the next steps will be once the cycle is
done and the tank is ready to handle some livestock. I know I still
have a ways to go (at the rate the ammonia is going up, I'm figuring
another 2 weeks or so at least), but it's nice to spend some time
thinking about what I want the tank to look like when I AM ready to
get it really 'going' so to speak. In the meantime, I love the look
of the live rock already, particularly now that I added extra and it's
not so sparse in the tank. I've also added 2 powerheads recommended
by the LFS as being very low heat, but good outflow, and they're
tucked nicely into holes throug my live rock configuration.

Over all I'm starting to get pretty excited about the project. It's
taking pretty much all the patience I have in my big fat body to not
jump the gun...and I've been stopping by the LFS at least every other
day to go drool over the various corals etc that I will eventually be
putting in.
Mitch

Big Habeeb wrote:

I think my surprise was more in general that ich was
an issue (not that I needed to keep a Q tank) - One of the solutions
I'd used with a decent amount of success in battling ich in the past
was adding a small amount of sea salt to my freshwater tanks....not
enough to even impact the spc gravity particularly, but it seemed to
do a good job of battling off the nasty ich...in most cases even more
so than the recommended chemicals (and I prefer not to use chemicals
anyway).

Freshwater ich and sal****er ich are two completely different animals
(literally). You will find many people who claim that sal****er ich is inherent
in all marine fish and can't be cured. These people will advise you to improve
your water quality, and the ich will go away.

I agree that it will. For about 2 weeks, until the next generation of the
parasite gets to the fish-sucking stage.

The only cure for marine ich (AK cryptocaryon) is copper sulphate.
Unfortunately, adding this to your reef tank will kill lots of stuff you really
need (for example, your live rock becomes dead rock), so you need a Q tank to
treat your fish. It also needs to be big enough to keep all your fish alive for
the month that it takes to allow the ich to die out in your main tank.

Better to quarantine your fish so that ich doesn't get into your tank in the
first place.

George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.

On Oct 16, 12:17 am, "August West"
wrote:
This stuff worked for me...http://www.aquariumguys.com/kickich1.htmlI have
no idea whats in it but it is copper free.

I quarantined my Atlanic Blue Tang after I got him. I finally put him in the
big tank and about a week later - Blam! He had ich all over him. Theres no
way to catch a fish in that tank, so I tried Kick-Ich out of desparation. It
worked, and none of the inverts were affected. Nothing happened to the
nitrite, nitrate, or ammonia levels, so I assume it left all the bacteria
alone. Now I use garlic and cleaner shrimp in the big tank. Whenever I get
new fish, they get the Kick-Ich treatment in the quarantine tank. When I
move them to the big tank, it gets a Kick Ich treatment also. Expensive, but
effective.

Its best to leave the skimmer off on "dose day"

"George Patterson" wrote in message

news:jnVQi.2423$et1.1204@trnddc02...



Big Habeeb wrote:

I think my surprise was more in general that ich was
an issue (not that I needed to keep a Q tank) - One of the solutions
I'd used with a decent amount of success in battling ich in the past
was adding a small amount of sea salt to my freshwater tanks....not
enough to even impact the spc gravity particularly, but it seemed to
do a good job of battling off the nasty ich...in most cases even more
so than the recommended chemicals (and I prefer not to use chemicals
anyway).

Freshwater ich and sal****er ich are two completely different animals
(literally). You will find many people who claim that sal****er ich is
inherent in all marine fish and can't be cured. These people will advise
you to improve your water quality, and the ich will go away.

I agree that it will. For about 2 weeks, until the next generation of the
parasite gets to the fish-sucking stage.

The only cure for marine ich (AK cryptocaryon) is copper sulphate.
Unfortunately, adding this to your reef tank will kill lots of stuff you
really need (for example, your live rock becomes dead rock), so you need a
Q tank to treat your fish. It also needs to be big enough to keep all your
fish alive for the month that it takes to allow the ich to die out in your
main tank.

Better to quarantine your fish so that ich doesn't get into your tank in
the first place.

George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Dunno if anyone is still checkin this thread but...
Tank is up and running with all the live rock, substrate was put in
this weekend, lots of algae forming, bio cycle appears to be complete
(ammonia went up and then back down etc)...did a 15% water change
Sunday night and tank seems to be running fairly happily. Tonight I'm
going to be adding a small cleaning crew - likely 3 snails and a crab,
to start dealing with the algae...looks like we're starting to get
close to 'go' time.
Mitch