Safety of Copper Pipes?

Sam Hopkins wrote:
If your PH is 7.0 it will leech and be dissolved into the water column and
build up and affect your fish. If your PH is 7.0 it will precipitate out
and not affect anything. I know this from treating acid mine drainage.

Sam

.hmmmph our well water ph here runs about 8-9 and will disolve a copper pipe in a year or two
in 1999 they put in a new subdivision an school near here and have had
to replace all lthe copper pipes with pvc because of leaks, a real pain
when the pipes are in under a concrete slab

John Rutz

My guess is there's something more sinister going on. Copper pipes have been
used a long long long time in homes with water that is above 7 PH and the
plumping in them still exists after 80 years.

Sam

"fuerjefe" wrote in message
...


Sam Hopkins wrote:
If your PH is 7.0 it will leech and be dissolved into the water column
and
build up and affect your fish. If your PH is 7.0 it will precipitate
out
and not affect anything. I know this from treating acid mine drainage.

Sam

.hmmmph our well water ph here runs about 8-9 and will disolve a copper
pipe in a year or two
in 1999 they put in a new subdivision an school near here and have had
to replace all lthe copper pipes with pvc because of leaks, a real pain
when the pipes are in under a concrete slab

John Rutz

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:23:21 -0500, "Sam Hopkins"
wrote:

My guess is there's something more sinister going on. Copper pipes have been
used a long long long time in homes with water that is above 7 PH and the
plumping in them still exists after 80 years.

There was a flap about copper pipes not standing up to water here and
someone blamed impurities in the copper. Sounds reasonable to me,
but I'm not a metallurgist, just a tinkerer. At the time of the flap
most of the copper tube was being imported, can't remember which
country was making it cheap enough to ship it in cheaper than we could
make it here, but sometimes you get what you pay for.

Regards,

Hal

Hal wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:23:21 -0500, "Sam Hopkins"
wrote:


My guess is there's something more sinister going on. Copper pipes have been
used a long long long time in homes with water that is above 7 PH and the
plumping in them still exists after 80 years.


There was a flap about copper pipes not standing up to water here and
someone blamed impurities in the copper. Sounds reasonable to me,

I've heard that electrical currents through the ground and using water
pipe for ground can also be a problem. I am not an electrician, so
anyone with a problem should ask an expert.

It sounds as though two subjects are being discussed in this thread.

1) Fish toxicity. As I understand it, low pH will dissolve copper
pipes. Because copper is variably toxic to fish (dependent upon
species), this can be very bad, and suggests that avoiding the use of
copper pipes for fish is prudent.

2) Pipe integrity. As Hal points out, copper pipes used today contain
alloys that do not stand up well to high temperatures and/or high flow
rates. They degrade (independently of pH), but do not leach copper at
excessive rates (unless pH is low) . In effect, the copper pipe
becomes a copper sponge tube. Might not be bad for fish, but leaks
are likely to occur.

Use PVC piping. Minimum Schedule 40.

Hal wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:23:21 -0500, "Sam Hopkins"
wrote:

My guess is there's something more sinister going on. Copper pipes have been
used a long long long time in homes with water that is above 7 PH and the
plumping in them still exists after 80 years.

There was a flap about copper pipes not standing up to water here and
someone blamed impurities in the copper. Sounds reasonable to me,
but I'm not a metallurgist, just a tinkerer. At the time of the flap
most of the copper tube was being imported, can't remember which
country was making it cheap enough to ship it in cheaper than we could
make it here, but sometimes you get what you pay for.

Regards,

Hal

Ahhh but do the people still exist??=BF=BF



http://community.webtv.net/rebeljoe/POND

Years ago I took a fish health course at Dr. Gratjeck(sp?) and in the
class there was a real horror story about an exotic fish store that
had major fish kill because someone attached a copper line to the
filter system. I do not rember the chemical reaction that caused the
toxic condition, but I have always been very cautious about copper
ever since.

Cla




"BenignVanilla" wrote in message ...
I just replumbed my entire house with copper, and I have some left over. I
am thinking about building a DIY filter for my aquarium, just for fun. Any
thoughts on the safety of using copper in an aquaria environment? I figure
it safe for us to drink, it should be safe in the tank or pond for that
matter.

Any thoughts?

BV.
www.iheartmypond.com

I think the "Don't use copper pipe" warnings may be a typical case of "in
theory" and "I heard once" information that often gets sent around fish
groups because it just sounds "right". I'd argue that what did ornamental
ponds and fish stores use before PVC pipe existed? Copper of course and they
were all fine.

Sam


"Cla" wrote in message
om...
Years ago I took a fish health course at Dr. Gratjeck(sp?) and in the
class there was a real horror story about an exotic fish store that
had major fish kill because someone attached a copper line to the
filter system. I do not rember the chemical reaction that caused the
toxic condition, but I have always been very cautious about copper
ever since.

Cla




"BenignVanilla" wrote in message
...
I just replumbed my entire house with copper, and I have some left over.
I
am thinking about building a DIY filter for my aquarium, just for fun.
Any
thoughts on the safety of using copper in an aquaria environment? I
figure
it safe for us to drink, it should be safe in the tank or pond for that
matter.

Any thoughts?

BV.
www.iheartmypond.com

FWIW:

OASE Mineralife, "Essential Trace Minerals for Koi and Pond Fish"
contains copper as well as zinc, aluminum, boron, bromine, calcium
chromium, chlorine, cobalt, iodine, iron, lithium, magnesium,
manganese, molybdenum, nickel, potassium, selenium, sodium, strontium,
sulfur and vanadium.

Kent Koi Essential, "Essential Trace Mineral Supplement for Koi and
Other Pond Fish" contains Copper sulphate, Zinc chloride, Potassium
chloride, Calcium chloride, Magnesium chloride, Potassium iodide,
Chromium chloride, Cobalt chloride, Ferric chloride, Manganese
chloride, Nickle chloride, Sodium metavanadate, Sodium molybdate,
Sodium selenate and Strontium chloride.

U.S. Aquagarden Vigor, "Essential Trace Minerals for Koi and Pond
Fish" is identical to the Kent product, also containing copper and
zinc.


Steve J. Noll | Ventura California
| Glass Block Pond http://www.kissingfrogs.tv

(Cla) wrote in message . com...
Years ago I took a fish health course at Dr. Gratjeck(sp?) and in the
class there was a real horror story about an exotic fish store that
had major fish kill because someone attached a copper line......

Wild guess here but maybe the "exotic" fish were salt water fish.
Maybe the Salt water and copper reacted?
Especially if there was another metal in the system they could have
had a bad case of electrolisis.

I know I've got a copper patch on the side of my preform pond that's
3 years old. My fish are still ok.

While were repeating things that need repeating - did you
know that Madeline Murray O'Hare was trying to get Touched by an
Angel removed from TV??? --- I'M JUST KIDDING!!!!

Peace!
Dan D. Louisville Ky good ole USA
http://ky-dan.com