starting a new nano tank

in message news:aiidd.5429$gq2.360@trnddc01...
Sure, but they don't naturally exist like that. Why take that away
from them? Again, just because the fish might be ok without it
doesn't make it ok.

Yes, it *is* ok. You're misunderstanding the relationship. Please do
some research. Clown fish absolultley do NOT need an anenome to
survive, or even to thrive. The captive-rasied clown does not know
that it's ocean-bred brethren are hiding in anenomes. The only
purpose for the relationship is instinctive defense from predators.
In your aquarium, there shouldn't be any predators hunting your
clown.
Start he http://www.garf.org/trever/anem/anenome.html

http://www.garf.org/39/fish/pict.html



Though I'm not fond of the design of the GARF site itself, I have
very high respect for the information it can provide, as do a great
many others.



billy




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No, I think you are misunderstanding my posts. Again, I am not saying
clown fish will die without anemones (get the spelling right if you are
going to argue), I am saying that it has been well documented and observed
that clown fish (which, by the way, are actually called ANEMONEFISH) live a
lot healthier and longer when hosting an anemone. And no, it doesn't just
protect clowns, anemones also help clean them as well. If you want to start
throwing sites out, go ahead. I have 10 for each one you reference.

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/clownfis.htm

Quotes:
"The mutually beneficial behavior of clowns and anemones has been well
documented and popularized (see Thomas 1978)"

"...chances of keeping and breeding Anemonefishes in captivity is greatly
improved in the presence of host anemones."


Point is, this hobby isn't just so you can show off to your friends what
you've created. You must also respect the creatures in your tank(s) and
give them a good home. So either listen to "Billy" and stress out your
fish, or listen to me and let them live happily. I'd be willing to adopt
your poor fish Billy, I have a good home for them.






"Billy" wrote in message
...
in message news:aiidd.5429$gq2.360@trnddc01...
Sure, but they don't naturally exist like that. Why take that away
from them? Again, just because the fish might be ok without it
doesn't make it ok.

Yes, it *is* ok. You're misunderstanding the relationship. Please do
some research. Clown fish absolultley do NOT need an anenome to
survive, or even to thrive. The captive-rasied clown does not know
that it's ocean-bred brethren are hiding in anenomes. The only
purpose for the relationship is instinctive defense from predators.
In your aquarium, there shouldn't be any predators hunting your
clown.
Start he http://www.garf.org/trever/anem/anenome.html

http://www.garf.org/39/fish/pict.html



Though I'm not fond of the design of the GARF site itself, I have
very high respect for the information it can provide, as do a great
many others.



billy




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Well I've decided to go with a 29gallon tank. Also a metal halide 250W
12000K unit from aquaticlight.com. That should just about get rid of any
problems I may have as far as fish load and what type of corals I can keep.
Since the tank is so much bigger, and the LR isn't getting any cheaper, it
will take me alot longer before I can even start this tank though. My wife
won't let me just go out and blow all that money at once. I have to
save.... But just to let you know, when I do get the fish, I will keep an
anemone as well. -Chris

P.S. Does anyone on here sell coral frags? And happen to live in the
southern indiana area?


"J.S." wrote in message
news:8omdd.865$qr.93@trnddc05...
No, I think you are misunderstanding my posts. Again, I am not saying
clown fish will die without anemones (get the spelling right if you are
going to argue), I am saying that it has been well documented and observed
that clown fish (which, by the way, are actually called ANEMONEFISH) live
a
lot healthier and longer when hosting an anemone. And no, it doesn't just
protect clowns, anemones also help clean them as well. If you want to
start
throwing sites out, go ahead. I have 10 for each one you reference.

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/clownfis.htm

Quotes:
"The mutually beneficial behavior of clowns and anemones has been well
documented and popularized (see Thomas 1978)"

"...chances of keeping and breeding Anemonefishes in captivity is greatly
improved in the presence of host anemones."


Point is, this hobby isn't just so you can show off to your friends what
you've created. You must also respect the creatures in your tank(s) and
give them a good home. So either listen to "Billy" and stress out your
fish, or listen to me and let them live happily. I'd be willing to adopt
your poor fish Billy, I have a good home for them.






"Billy" wrote in message
...
in message news:aiidd.5429$gq2.360@trnddc01...
Sure, but they don't naturally exist like that. Why take that away
from them? Again, just because the fish might be ok without it
doesn't make it ok.

Yes, it *is* ok. You're misunderstanding the relationship. Please do
some research. Clown fish absolultley do NOT need an anenome to
survive, or even to thrive. The captive-rasied clown does not know
that it's ocean-bred brethren are hiding in anenomes. The only
purpose for the relationship is instinctive defense from predators.
In your aquarium, there shouldn't be any predators hunting your
clown.
Start he http://www.garf.org/trever/anem/anenome.html

http://www.garf.org/39/fish/pict.html



Though I'm not fond of the design of the GARF site itself, I have
very high respect for the information it can provide, as do a great
many others.



billy




---
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"J.S." wrote in message
news:8omdd.865$qr.93@trnddc05...
| No, I think you are misunderstanding my posts. Again, I am not
saying
| clown fish will die without anemones (get the spelling right if you
are
| going to argue), I am saying that it has been well documented and
observed
| that clown fish (which, by the way, are actually called
ANEMONEFISH) live a
| lot healthier and longer when hosting an anemone. And no, it
doesn't just
| protect clowns, anemones also help clean them as well. If you want
to start
| throwing sites out, go ahead. I have 10 for each one you
reference.
|


Your own website offering states that some clowns actually do BETTER
without an anemone, and I suppose this goes to show that even experts
can disagree and, as always, YMMV I stand by my opinion, and of
course, you are entitled to yours. However, I never said they'd die
without one. Please read posts thoroughly before responding in this
manner. I quote from my post: "or even to thrive". I have no interest
in trading websites with you, I am well aware that there are many
n00bs passing themselves as experts that will tell you that it's more
difficult or even impossible to raise and breed happy, healthy,
clowns without anemone hosts, and they have websites, I've seen them.
Your quickness to insult does not speak well of you. If you
interpreted my post as offensive, I grudgingly apologize for that, it
wasn't intended as such.
For future information, disrespecting a poster for a typo,
spelling error, or difference in spelling preference will generally
make you look pathetic, desperate and childish, though I recognize
that it's a USENET tradition to be anal retentive about such things.
Reason #7,345 I spend most of my time in private NNTP servers and RL.

billy


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I understand your logic, but the general consensus among the pros is
they aren't
really needed. No reason to avoid a clown if you don't have a system to
support an anemone :-)

J.S. wrote:

Sure, but they don't naturally exist like that. Why take that away
from them? Again, just because the fish might be ok without it
doesn't make it ok.





--
Ric Seyler

"Chris Gentry" writes:
Since the tank is so much bigger, and the LR isn't getting any cheaper, it
will take me alot longer before I can even start this tank though. My wife
If you are goint to get the tank, lights, and salt,
also get some gravel/sand/mud and at least *some* live sand or rock.

Set it up and start it going and add rock as often as your
checkbook/wife allows.

This will allow your tank to mature. Having a larger water volume
with less bioload will also help with any die-off. Critters will
populate the tank, and "enliven" the sand/base rock/etc you
have... giving you more bang for the buck. (you will essentially be
converting cheap dead sand/rock into live sand/rock)

Any blooms you have will be easier to deal with since you have less
stuff to clean around.

This is what I would likely do anyway.

Good luck!

--
be safe.
flip
Ich habe keine Ahnung was das bedeutet, oder vielleicht doch?
Remove origin of the word spam from address to reply (leave "+")

As I've insinuated before, treat your fish however you please. If you want
to keep anemonefish without anemones, go right ahead, it doesn't affect me.
I just try to provide my fish with the healthiest lifestyle possible. Yes,
I am very meticulous when it comes to this trade. And for future reference,
correcting your child-like spelling of anemone was just an attempt to help
you make a better argument. I do not see how you can refute or even
converse when making blatant grammactical errors. Similarly, many have said
Bush would make a better president and debater if he could just speak the
English language correctly.

Anyways, I need to get back to life. Have a good day.




Your own website offering states that some clowns actually do BETTER
without an anemone, and I suppose this goes to show that even experts
can disagree and, as always, YMMV I stand by my opinion, and of
course, you are entitled to yours. However, I never said they'd die
without one. Please read posts thoroughly before responding in this
manner. I quote from my post: "or even to thrive". I have no interest
in trading websites with you, I am well aware that there are many
n00bs passing themselves as experts that will tell you that it's more
difficult or even impossible to raise and breed happy, healthy,
clowns without anemone hosts, and they have websites, I've seen them.
Your quickness to insult does not speak well of you. If you
interpreted my post as offensive, I grudgingly apologize for that, it
wasn't intended as such.
For future information, disrespecting a poster for a typo,
spelling error, or difference in spelling preference will generally
make you look pathetic, desperate and childish, though I recognize
that it's a USENET tradition to be anal retentive about such things.
Reason #7,345 I spend most of my time in private NNTP servers and RL.

billy


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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alright. So I can skimp and only get about 15 pounds of LR and get all the
'dead' sand (probably carib sea premium grade aragonite) and set up the
tank, lights, sand, plenum, and LR for now? Get the rest of the LR later...
Then how do I cycle the tank? I've read something about putting in a dead
shrimp for source of ammonia. Or can I just let the thing run
s-is? -Chris


"Philip Lewis" wrote in message
du...
"Chris Gentry" writes:
Since the tank is so much bigger, and the LR isn't getting any cheaper,
it
will take me alot longer before I can even start this tank though. My
wife
If you are goint to get the tank, lights, and salt,
also get some gravel/sand/mud and at least *some* live sand or rock.

Set it up and start it going and add rock as often as your
checkbook/wife allows.

This will allow your tank to mature. Having a larger water volume
with less bioload will also help with any die-off. Critters will
populate the tank, and "enliven" the sand/base rock/etc you
have... giving you more bang for the buck. (you will essentially be
converting cheap dead sand/rock into live sand/rock)

Any blooms you have will be easier to deal with since you have less
stuff to clean around.

This is what I would likely do anyway.

Good luck!

--
be safe.
flip
Ich habe keine Ahnung was das bedeutet, oder vielleicht doch?
Remove origin of the word spam from address to reply (leave "+")

"Chris Gentry" writes:
alright. So I can skimp and only get about 15 pounds of LR and get all the
think of it as a lagoon with some rocks washed up from the reef.

Then how do I cycle the tank? I've read something about putting in a dead
shrimp for source of ammonia. Or can I just let the thing run
Well... the bacteria will populate the rock/sand/etc... but as with
anything else, it wants food to live.

I've heard of folks using straight ammonia to cycle. gotta make sure
there are no additives though. I don't know that i'd do it.

I'd Throw in some of the eventual clean up crew (hermits and snails) if
they don't come with the 15 lbs of live rock. I've used slivers of
"reduced for quick sale" marine fish bought at the grocery store to feed
them. Not sure i'd go with an entire dead shrimp.

Again... I'm no expert.... I have been doing various aquaria stuff for
about 10 years though.... and i read a fair bit.

I think this is the way to go.

--
be safe.
flip
Ich habe keine Ahnung was das bedeutet, oder vielleicht doch?
Remove origin of the word spam from address to reply (leave "+")

"J.S." wrote in message
news:5exdd.3528$106.1786@trnddc03...
| correcting your child-like spelling of anemone was just an attempt
to help
| you make a better argument.

Interesting method.


|| Anyways, I need to get back to life. Have a good day.
|


Indeed.


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