PLEASE HELP. Sorry about the caps but this is urgent.

On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 03:00:12 GMT, southernbc
wrote:


Anthropy wrote:
Please help.
We have a pond, about 3 x 4 x 4 (feet). We've had it for about 5 years
and everything was great. It contains about 40 goldfish but recently
they have begun dying. The dead ones are small and appear to be a
silvery \gold type colour.
We don't do anything to the pond other than feed the fish and clear
off the leaves and stuff off the surface and until now all has been
fine. We haven't changed the food nor put anything in the water. The
bigger fish seem to be OK but 5 have died in the last week.
There is no residue or anything usual about the pond. The fish are a
bit slow but that is just the cold (It's winter here England,
Brighton)
Could it be something to do with the fluctuating temperature we're
experiencing this winter?
Please, if you can help or recommend anything we'd be most grateful.
Thanks.

When you say the temperature was over 55 deg. did you mean the air or
the water? The water temp is the one that matters to fish.

Don

Firstly thanks to everyone for your help.
Another fish was dead this morning. I noticed it looking poorly
yesterday. When I took it out the pond it's eyes were white and it
had a red patch on its underside. Once again, one of the small ones.
The other fish look fine.
I'm afraid to say the 55f I was referring to was the air. It seems
obvious now you've mentioned it that I should have been measuring the
water temperature.
I've stopped feeding them completely now even though they were quite
lively this morning and obviously wanting food.
We're also going to remove some and take them to the pond in the local
park. Would it be better to remove the big ones or the smaller ones?
I shall get the water testing kit tomorrow and post the results.
Once again, thanks for your help.

On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 10:16:46 -0500, (REBEL JOE)
wrote:

yOU NEED TO CLEAN POND MUCK OUT AT LEAST once a year. And add a veggie
filter.



http://community.webtv.net/rebeljoe/POND

Hi
What is the best time of year to clean the pond? I live in the UK.
When the pond is being cleaned do I store the fish in water taken from
the original pond or in clean water? ( tap water?)
Reading through the posts here it would seem there is a proper order
in which to replace the contents of the pond (plants stones etc) and
water after it has been cleaned. What is it?
What's a veggie filter?
Sorry about all the questions but I'm on a very steep learning curve.
Thanks for any help.

When we clean our pond, in the spring, we drain it down by opening
a valve which sends the water underneath a very happy pine
tree instead of down our water fall.
We net the fish out and store them in a 150 gallon stock tank (many
time pond keepers clubs will have large tanks for loan for this
purpose). This tank is filled with pond water and a net is secured over
the top. It is mostly in the shade. We run an air pump attached to a
bubbler stone in the tank.
Plants are taken out. Placed in the shade, divided or repotted if
needed. We have no rocks in the pond.

The muck is scopped out. Dumped around trees for food. We do not scrub
the sides. No chemicals are used in cleaning.

Put the plants back in. We fill the pond from the hose, adding water
slowly over the day. Add the right amount of dechlor (available at
petstores - also important to know if your water system adds
chloramines which require a different product).

When the pond temperature is the same as the tank temperature (within
10 degrees) we put the fish back in.

A veggie filter is a setup where you run your pond water through a
plethora of plants. In our setup we run the water through a tank filled
with water hyacinth (which I don't think are available in your area)
and then into a waterfall filled with watercress. The plants filter the
fishy waste and use up a lot of the nutrients that single cell algae
thrives on and keep the pond clear. The roots of the plants catch a lot
of the mulm and dirt.

kathy :-)

I have both a large koi pond and a goldfish pond of similar size to your
own, I never feed any of them from when it gets cold october'ish until late
March / early April and have never seen any ill effects. As regards the
goldfish I have plenty of plants in their pond and never feed them at any
time, they seem to thrive on this neglect as the original 12 have now
multiplied in to! well I loose count but well past the 40 in your own.
As for maintenance I usually just cut all the plants hard back in
October and net as much rubbish of the bottom as possible and as for the
rest of the year I just top up for evaporation.
A doddle after sorting out the complicated system in the koi Pond.

Jon
Doncaster


"Anthropy" wrote in message
...
Please help.
We have a pond, about 3 x 4 x 4 (feet). We've had it for about 5 years
and everything was great. It contains about 40 goldfish but recently
they have begun dying. The dead ones are small and appear to be a
silvery \gold type colour.
We don't do anything to the pond other than feed the fish and clear
off the leaves and stuff off the surface and until now all has been
fine. We haven't changed the food nor put anything in the water. The
bigger fish seem to be OK but 5 have died in the last week.
There is no residue or anything usual about the pond. The fish are a
bit slow but that is just the cold (It's winter here England,
Brighton)
Could it be something to do with the fluctuating temperature we're
experiencing this winter?
Please, if you can help or recommend anything we'd be most grateful.
Thanks.

"Anthropy" wrote:
Please help.
We have a pond, about 3 x 4 x 4 (feet). We've had it for about 5 years
and everything was great. It contains about 40 goldfish but recently
they have begun dying. The dead ones are small

Since it is the smaller ones dying, imo, your pond has hit what I call
"critical mass".

My suggestion would be to get a large tub, 20 gallons and fill with clean
(before you stir it up) pond water. Catch 4 of the largest, nicest looking
goldfish and put in this tub.

Now catch the rest to take to the pond store (not to the local pond unless
you have permission). Being one of the volunteer workers at a similar
"local pond" I'm not happy with people that do that. Completely drain the
pond and muck it out as Kathy mentioned. A shop vac, if you have one, works
quite well. I will repeat, rinse sides, but don't scrub. Put plants back
in, refill with needed water treatments and place tub, with the 4 keeper
goldfish, in the pond *do not turn them loose yet* add some of the fresh
pond water to the tub. Let tub float around pond overnight, and release
them in the morning... or if the evening is warm add an airstone.

To prevent critical mass from happening again, don't feed these fish ever!
They will keep their own population down within the means of the pond
providing. I'd also figure out a way to cover the pond in the fall to keep
leaves and such out. You can see how I do that with my ponds on my website.
~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 17:09:13 GMT, Anthropy wrote:

Another fish was dead this morning. I noticed it looking poorly
yesterday. When I took it out the pond it's eyes were white and it
had a red patch on its underside. Once again, one of the small ones.
The other fish look fine.

It sounds like you have a bacterial infection. Do you have a wet and
dry vacuum cleaner? They are too powerful to clean the bottom of a pond
normally but if you could restrict the inlet pipe somehow to decrease
the flow you might just be able to suck the muck up from the bottom.

About the best treatment you can get in the UK is a combination of
PimaFix and Melafix from API. This combination can treat both internal
and external bacteria. You can only get antibiotics from a vet. PimaFix
was only released last year and I haven't had to try it so I don't have
any personal recommendation but it does sound as if you have an
internal bacterial infection and it's one of the things that thrive in
colder water and MelaFix on it's own won't help with an internal
infection although it is very good for external ones.

We're also going to remove some and take them to the pond in the local
park. Would it be better to remove the big ones or the smaller ones?

You mustn't take fish and put them anywhere else without permission. A
lot of fish that we used to be able to keep in the UK are now banned
because people have been dumping them.

You fish are ill and you could just spread this illness to those in the
park pond if you put them in even with the councils permission and that
could wipe out the fish already in there.

Goldfish don't survive long in native waters. They aren't camouflaged
like native fish so are an easy target for predators.

--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail ngpsm4 (at) infohitsystems (dot) ltd (dot) uk

The replies about water quality and water testing are very good, but with a
fish showing a red spot on the bottom, and the smaller fish being the first
to die, I would suspect there may also be a problem with parasites. Check
with a local koi club and see if they have someone that can do a microscopic
examination. If they find parasites, they will have recommendations on
treatments available in your area.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

"Anthropy" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 03:00:12 GMT, southernbc
wrote:


Anthropy wrote:
Please help.
We have a pond, about 3 x 4 x 4 (feet). We've had it for about 5 years
and everything was great. It contains about 40 goldfish but recently
they have begun dying. The dead ones are small and appear to be a
silvery \gold type colour.
We don't do anything to the pond other than feed the fish and clear
off the leaves and stuff off the surface and until now all has been
fine. We haven't changed the food nor put anything in the water. The
bigger fish seem to be OK but 5 have died in the last week.
There is no residue or anything usual about the pond. The fish are a
bit slow but that is just the cold (It's winter here England,
Brighton)
Could it be something to do with the fluctuating temperature we're
experiencing this winter?
Please, if you can help or recommend anything we'd be most grateful.
Thanks.

When you say the temperature was over 55 deg. did you mean the air or
the water? The water temp is the one that matters to fish.

Don

Firstly thanks to everyone for your help.
Another fish was dead this morning. I noticed it looking poorly
yesterday. When I took it out the pond it's eyes were white and it
had a red patch on its underside. Once again, one of the small ones.
The other fish look fine.
I'm afraid to say the 55f I was referring to was the air. It seems
obvious now you've mentioned it that I should have been measuring the
water temperature.
I've stopped feeding them completely now even though they were quite
lively this morning and obviously wanting food.
We're also going to remove some and take them to the pond in the local
park. Would it be better to remove the big ones or the smaller ones?
I shall get the water testing kit tomorrow and post the results.
Once again, thanks for your help.

"Anthropy" wrote in message
...
Please help.
We have a pond, about 3 x 4 x 4 (feet). We've had it for about 5 years
and everything was great. It contains about 40 goldfish but recently
they have begun dying. The dead ones are small and ....
=====================
That's an awful lot of goldfish for such a small pond. To make it worse you
don't have aeration or a filter. They may be suffocating. How much "gunk"
is on the bottom of this pond? The water may be foul and stagnant.

Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Snip
A veggie filter is a setup where you run your pond water through a
plethora of plants. In our setup we run the water through a tank filled
with water hyacinth (which I don't think are available in your area)
and then into a waterfall filled with watercress. The plants filter the
fishy waste and use up a lot of the nutrients that single cell algae
thrives on and keep the pond clear. The roots of the plants catch a lot
of the mulm and dirt.

kathy :-)


We can get water hyacinth but tend to use them as annuals as I have
never managed to find a solution to keeping them over winter. They have
been spread in various directions from my indoor tanks to buckets in the
green house but all usually die. If anyone know how to overwinter
successfull it would be a great help. If not I tend to by some more of
ebay each year.

Paul

On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 23:44:14 -0600, "~ Windsong ~" P@P wrote:


"Anthropy" wrote in message
.. .
Please help.
We have a pond, about 3 x 4 x 4 (feet). We've had it for about 5 years
and everything was great. It contains about 40 goldfish but recently
they have begun dying. The dead ones are small and ....
=====================
That's an awful lot of goldfish for such a small pond. To make it worse you
don't have aeration or a filter. They may be suffocating. How much "gunk"
is on the bottom of this pond? The water may be foul and stagnant.

Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi all and thanks for your help.
Firstly no fish have died in 5 days, hooray, and the remaining fish
look healthy and hungry but I am not feeding them, at all.
here are the results of the pond water test. The test is called Tetra
Pond Test and it does pH, KH, GH, NO2, NO3,

pH = 7.2
KH = Between 0.d - 3.d
GH = 10.d
NO2 = 0
NO3 = 0
(The "dot" is instead of a small circle, degrees I think? which isn't
on my keyboard)

According to the instructions on the box all is OK with the water.
Maybe some more food plants for the water and fish are needed however
I still don't know why the other fish died and that's worrying.
We ran two tests and the results of the second were slightly different
to the first so the validity of the test could be called into
question.
Thanks for the help.