blue betta

"IDzine01" wrote in message
oups.com...
I think there may be a bit of overmedicating going on here.

Yeah your right...i kind of over reacted...when i seen the white spots
(which i am thinking it was ich, because if i remember correct they were on
the body also, i used the first dose of ich +

Pin holes
in the tail are nothing to worry about and will heal themselves in a
couple of days. Even more serious fin rot can often be treated
successfully by increasing your water changes and monitoring your water
parameters.

Yeah they were in a throw away cup at the lfs, so daily water changes will
probably help
is there a difference between pin holes in the fins, and tail/fin rot?? and
how do you tell which is which

To put an already stressed fish through a course of
antibiotics may add additional stress. That said, it's important to
finish the course of Ich treatment. As you may or may not know there are
three life stages to these parasites and
they are only affected by the medication a couple of days out of the
cycle so if you stop treating the Ich it's very possible you will miss
those days and they will return in greater numbers.

I'm just going to stick with the rid ich+ instead of antibiotics, yes i
know about the cycle, the last bettas i got from this place had ich, altum
wrote me down a schedule to treat the ich, and they came though great, and
are doing very well now, but they never acted sick like this one is, not
swimming around or eating.


Whether or not you finish the treatment of antibiotics is sort of up to
you. Antibiotics should be followed through because under-medicating or
shortening the course may lead to antibiotic-resistant bacteria. On the
other hand, unnecessary treatment may be harmful to your betta.

I'm just sticking with the ich+ and daily water changes, i would feel so
much better if i could get him to eat, i guess i will see what happens. i
keep all my betta tanks on 80-82 degrees, i know thats fine with ich but if
by chance its fin rot, heat wont make it worse right?

thanks Nikki

Nikki wrote:
"IDzine01" wrote in message
oups.com...

Yeah they were in a throw away cup at the lfs, so daily water changes will
probably help
is there a difference between pin holes in the fins, and tail/fin rot?? and
how do you tell which is which

Fins can have pin holes, splits, or look ragged from physical damage or
poor water conditions. Some people call that "fin rot", but it's easily
cured with clean water.

Sometimes, if the bad water quality continues, damaged fins get
bacterial or fungal infections. They will have whitish stuff on the
edges, or fluffy patches. Sometimes fins don't even show anything
obvious, but they keep getting worse rather than healing. That is what
I call "fin rot." It is an active infection and requires a treatment
beyond clean water. Your Q-tip with peroxide is a good one.

A good aquarist should almost never see real "fin rot." As soon as fin
damage is evident, you prevent infection from setting in by changing a
lot of water and fixing the water quality problems (like cleaning the
filter and vacuuming the gravel).

I'm just sticking with the ich+ and daily water changes, i would feel so
much better if i could get him to eat, i guess i will see what happens. i
keep all my betta tanks on 80-82 degrees, i know thats fine with ich but if
by chance its fin rot, heat wont make it worse right?

It doesn't sound like his fins are infected, only damaged. Heat won't
make it worse. Your fish needs the heat to help him fight off whatever
is keeping him from eating. Can you get live brine shrimp? You should
wait say...three days, and then offer him some brine shrimp.
Sometimes bettas will strike at something wiggling and start eating a
little better.

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"Altum" wrote in message
et...
Nikki wrote:
"IDzine01" wrote in message
oups.com...


all right, I see, I think we both posted at the same time I had posted once
more asking specifically what the difference was between the two, When I
change their water daily I either change 100% or 50% depending, I was very
surprised after how bad the red ones look how quickly they came back and how
good they look now, i just got them so maybe with the water changes he will
start to look better, i got them each in a tank that is 13 inch long, 10
inch high, and 7 inch wide, holds i think about 3-4 gl of water (but i'm
guessing about gl) they are ok tanks for them, gives them room to swim.
Nikki

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Nikki wrote,
i got them each in a tank that is 13 inch long, 10
inch high, and 7 inch wide........

Not quite 4 gals............. Frank

On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:56:42 -0500, Nikki wrote:

When I change their water daily I either change 100% or 50% depending,

You should only rarely do 100% water changes. By replacing all the water,
you will cause new tank syndrome. Of course, the medications you're
adding might already be killing the good microbes along with the bad.

You may want to add aquarium or sea salt to your tank unless it's planted.
The added salinity will definitely help against ich.

hth,
Laie Techie

IDzine01 wrote:
I think there may be a bit of overmedicating going on here. Pin holes
in the tail are nothing to worry about and will heal themselves in a
couple of days. Even more serious fin rot can often be treated
successfully by increasing your water changes and monitoring your water
parameters. To put an already stressed fish through a course of
antibiotics may add additional stress.

That said, it's important to finish the course of Ich treatment. As you
may or may not know there are three life stages to these parasites and
they are only affected by the medication a couple of days out of the
cycle so if you stop treating the Ich it's very possible you will miss
those days and they will return in greater numbers.

Whether or not you finish the treatment of antibiotics is sort of up to
you. Antibiotics should be followed through because under-medicating or
shortening the course may lead to antibiotic-resistant bacteria. On the
other hand, unnecessary treatment may be harmful to your betta.

I completely agree with you about antibiotics. With only one dose, I'd
discontinue treatment. The worst thing for resistance seems to be
stopping after three or four days instead of going for a full course of
seven to ten days. Even a full course of antibiotics can leave some
resistant bacteria, which is why they should be a last resort if you
choose to use them at all.

I wasn't sure from Nikki's post whether she really saw ich, or only
pinholes in the fins. No sense using ich meds if there was no ich.

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"Altum" wrote in message
et...


I wasn't sure from Nikki's post whether she really saw ich, or only
pinholes in the fins. No sense using ich meds if there was no ich.


Pinholes are in addition to ich not instead sorry, after thinking about it,
i seen white spots on the body so it was ich, i am just wondering now if the
pinholes are just that, just pinholes or is it rot, i dont know how to tell
and i dont know if they are different things. well i guess it dont make a
difference being i am doing daily water changes which is what i understand i
would do for either

Nikki

PS: Tynk, you said you use salt, in the tank or salt bath? and do you only
do that when they are sick, i noticed some people use it some dont, so i
was just wondering

There is a difference between fin loss and fin rot but it isn't always
very obvious how to tell them apart. Fin rot is a bacterial infection
and often occurs due to poor water conditions. Bettas are extremely
susceptible to it and it's not uncommon for even seasoned veterans to
have to deal with it from time to time. General fin loss or tearing
(pin holes too) may occur if your betta snags his fins on something or
from flaring. Fin rot can often be identified by black or bloodied fin
tips. Often chunks of fins will just slough off. They are often
characteristically tattered at the ends as well. The signs of fin rot
may be less obvious with darker colored or red bettas.

http://www.nippyfish.net/finlossfinrot.html

"IDzine01" wrote in message
oups.com...
There is a difference between fin loss and fin rot but it isn't always
very obvious how to tell them apart. Fin rot is a bacterial infection
and often occurs due to poor water conditions. Bettas are extremely
susceptible to it and it's not uncommon for even seasoned veterans to
have to deal with it from time to time. General fin loss or tearing
(pin holes too) may occur if your betta snags his fins on something or
from flaring. Fin rot can often be identified by black or bloodied fin
tips. Often chunks of fins will just slough off. They are often
characteristically tattered at the ends as well. The signs of fin rot
may be less obvious with darker colored or red bettas.

http://www.nippyfish.net/finlossfinrot.html

Ok, let me give you a quick update, he (Mr. blue betta) is swimming a bit
today, I was surprised after yesterday, it has also made it a little easier
to see all the fins, it was hard when he was sitting at the bottom of the
tank. I think they are just pinholes, if you took the pinholes away his
tail/fin would look completely normal, no snags, rips, or anything along
those lines, just pinholes. I see what you are saying now (the difference
between rot/pinholes). Another good thing is this morning he took a few
pieces of food, I have had him for a week, and he was in a cup at the store,
so I don't know that he could of got snagged on anything, but the water in
the cup had a film on top, not sure from what, maybe that has something to
do with it.
He is not as active as the others, however he does not look like he might
die at any moment as he did yesterday.
We had been talking about ich, I have a question, I know you can not kill it
when its on the fish, the meds kill it when it falls off the fish and is in
the rocks, if I understand right you can kill ich with high temps, so when
it falls off the betta, and is in the rocks, could you not empty out the
tank and boil the rocks, which would kill it or at least lessen the time you
need to use the medication, is that right or not, I see where it would not
be reasonable to do this in a big tank with a lot of stuff in it, but in a
QT ???
Let me know if you have a minute
Thanks for the help Nikki

Whether or not you finish the treatment of antibiotics is sort of up to
you. Antibiotics should be followed through because under-medicating or
shortening the course may lead to antibiotic-resistant bacteria. On the
other hand, unnecessary treatment may be harmful to your betta.

I completely agree with you about antibiotics. With only one dose, I'd
discontinue treatment. The worst thing for resistance seems to be
stopping after three or four days instead of going for a full course of
seven to ten days. Even a full course of antibiotics can leave some
resistant bacteria, which is why they should be a last resort if you
choose to use them at all.

No. Untergasser says antibiotics should only be used as a last
resort with an irreplacable fish (think $25K koi) in a glass
only tank. You absolutley must finish the course of treatment
if started. These days it's very strongly recommended a test
be done on the cultured big to see if the antibiotic has
resistance to the bug. If it does not they WILL be dead at
the end of the treatment.

Non antibiotic bacteriocides can be fond at:

http://aquaria.net/articles/meds/ant.../alternatives/


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