American Flag Fish

"Polarhound" wrote in message
...
NetMax wrote:

Yes, I know the chap who manages that outlet (very nice fellow). Big
Al's is my competitor now, so when we meet, we still talk fish, but
sharing names of suppliers is off the table ;~)

What about people like me, who is in a position to see who EVERYONE
gets
their fish, live rock, etc. from?

How did you get that position? Actually, there are only so many
suppliers stationed in and servicing North America, and they are in the
phone books. The off-shore guys vary in regards to their consistency, so
we usually let the trans-shippers work as middlemen. The real time
savings are in knowing who has what in good quality for a good price. I
spend about 2 hours a week pouring over breeder sheets. A rewarding part
of my job is when someone laments that they can't locate a certain fish,
and a few days later, and I'm calling them to tell them that they have
arrived ). I don't take deposits figuring if it's unusual, I can sell
it to someone else, and if I can't, I don't mind having a few lesser
known varieties around.

NetMax

How did you get that position? Actually, there are only so many
suppliers stationed in and servicing North America, and they are in the
phone books. The off-shore guys vary in regards to their consistency, so
we usually let the trans-shippers work as middlemen. The real time
savings are in knowing who has what in good quality for a good price. I
spend about 2 hours a week pouring over breeder sheets. A rewarding part
of my job is when someone laments that they can't locate a certain fish,
and a few days later, and I'm calling them to tell them that they have
arrived ). I don't take deposits figuring if it's unusual, I can sell
it to someone else, and if I can't, I don't mind having a few lesser
known varieties around.
NetMax

Hi Netmax...

I had attempted to send you a message to your email account but it
probably got canned as spam...

Can you give me any links or contact information on life fish and
plant suppliers, wholesale only?

I am doing research for a bank loan to start a small LFS and need
contact information and pricing etc to take with me to the bank.

They seem to want quite a few details so as much information as you
can provice will be greatly appreciated.

All I really need is contact info. Actualy pricing etc I will get
directly and have them fax me quotes etc to provide to the bank.

Thanks.

"NetMax" wrote in message
...

Yes, I know the chap who manages that outlet (very nice fellow). Big
Al's is my competitor now, so when we meet, we still talk fish, but
sharing names of suppliers is off the table ;~)

You've got to tell me where you business is. I'd much rather buy from a pro
than from an LFS who often has the wrong info.

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004, NetMax wrote:

Simplify as much as you can. Unless you are planning on breeding (and
even then), 95% of your fish should be in the same water, which would
ideally be a nice 7.2pH, 4dkH and 6dgH. All special care tanks will be a
higher overhead, so don't take on extra work where it's not needed.
What about your Asia-Australian tanks, or hardwater South American, or
sof****er riverine Africans ? ;~). Keep them all in the same water.
You can tweak with substrates or leaf litter later on.

I've got about 400g set aside for plants, and I find that to be a bit
small, but it forces me to operate efficiently by purchasing and
marketing appropriately. If I had a lot more room, I'd get lazy about
it. The 400g is a revolving door. Most plants are not there long
enough to set down much in the way of roots. I doubt there is much
business case in growing your own (other than to support niches). Farms
do it much more efficiently.


From a potential customer's point of view, I agree with NetMax. When I
started my new aquarium and was testing my water, I was worried that my
local hard, alkaline water was going to severely limit my choices of
possible fish to stock. However, when I went to talk to my LFS, he
pointed out that all of his stock is kept in local tap water that he just
treats with standard tap conditioner. From my point of view, this made me
feel a lot better -- if fish were thriving in his tanks, then I thought I
had a good shot of having them do well in mine.

If I had walked into his shop and been told that he went to some lengths
to treat the water to set up the perfect conditions for each species, I
would have walked out more discouraged about my prospects for successfully
keeping the fish that I wanted in my tank.

BTW, where in Pennsylvania are you? I live in central PA, about halfway
between Pittsburgh & Philly.

--chris




NB: This email address is dead. If you would like to email me directly,
please use: cpalmaATSYMBOLastro.psu.edu

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:18:01 -0500, Chris Palma
wrote:
snip
From a potential customer's point of view, I agree with NetMax. When I
started my new aquarium and was testing my water, I was worried that my
local hard, alkaline water was going to severely limit my choices of
possible fish to stock. However, when I went to talk to my LFS, he
pointed out that all of his stock is kept in local tap water that he just
treats with standard tap conditioner. From my point of view, this made me
feel a lot better -- if fish were thriving in his tanks, then I thought I
had a good shot of having them do well in mine.

If I had walked into his shop and been told that he went to some lengths
to treat the water to set up the perfect conditions for each species, I
would have walked out more discouraged about my prospects for successfully
keeping the fish that I wanted in my tank.

I was planning on keeping it as simple as possible. My only planning
on the different tanks was water temp and possible softening for
Discus (which I still believe are the Kings of the trade)

I know that I can produce Discus at a lower price than $25 each and
still make a profit even taking into consideration culls, losses etc.

The city water where this store is located is fairly soft anyway, all
I have to remove is chloramines which I would probably have to deal
with wherever I setup shop.

As I said, this is still early in the planning stages and depends on
what my actual costs will be to get the site and supply it. It may
not happen soon though since the building is tied up in probate. IE,
the family has been fighting on who gets what and about how much it is
worth... been sitting 'empty' for almost 8 years now so I am hoping
the price reflects the amount of work needed to re-roof the buildings
and refurbish the interiors.

BTW, where in Pennsylvania are you? I live in central PA, about halfway
between Pittsburgh & Philly.
--chris


Scranton / Wilkes-Barre, Upper north east part of the state.

"Nemo" wrote in message
...
"NetMax" wrote in message
...

Yes, I know the chap who manages that outlet (very nice fellow). Big
Al's is my competitor now, so when we meet, we still talk fish, but
sharing names of suppliers is off the table ;~)

You've got to tell me where you business is. I'd much rather buy from a
pro
than from an LFS who often has the wrong info.

If you know Ottawa, then you should have no problem finding us. We are
at the corner of Greenbank and Strandherd (take the Fallowfield exit off
the 416). I'm the one wearing the beard, but I'm only there 3 days a
week, and often on odd projects (today I built a indoor overground 250g
pond).

I've started a mailing list to let regular customers know what
fish/plants I'm ordering and what product promotions are being planned.
It seems to be well received because I get a small crowd on evenings when
a particularly interesting fish order comes in, and also on the day after
a plant order comes in (takes me at least a day to unpack the plant
shipments). Put yourself on the mailing list, and introduce yourself if
you like. Some ppl from the newsgroup do, some don't and just like to
come and check it out (that's kewl too).

This is a relatively quiet week for livestock, mostly standard
re-stocking and a box of Koi (to go in the pond I just built). The Koi
are interesting in that they come with paperwork certifying them
virus-free. By getting them early for pond season, I'll be able to check
them out myself.

I do have got some Phoenix Yellow discus coming Thursday. I earlier had
some from the same batch, so I know these are real eye-catchers. A local
breeder re-stocked me with an assortment of Angels (all Black veiltail
variants). My Altums haven't sold yet so I might take these home myself
;~). My Nyereis are coming into color, and every female is packing (and
selling).

I'm getting more plants than fish this week (which is happening more &
more often, but that's what happens when you give a hobbyist several
thick plant catalogues to order from). I'm like a kid in a candy store.
I'm going to try every one, and I'm going through a lot of Cryptocorne,
Aponogeton, Nyphoides and Echinodorous right now. If you visit, the Red
Tiger Lotus in the plant show tank is flowering again. The flower comes
about 6" above the water, and closes when it gets light (night-bloomer).
I probably forgetting lots of stuff as I have 4 deliveries this week, but
we got in a huge order of aquariums, so I've been re-arranging the store
to fit them all (making my corridors so narrow, I might be in violation
of fire-code soon), but at least I sold the biggest one, a 175g bowfront
*sweet tank* (never even uncrated it) *whew*.

cheers
NetMax

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 23:23:20 -0500, "NetMax"
wrote:
snip
snipped Canadian wholesalers

Segrest Farms in Florida, ask for Julie 1-800-237-9317 EXT. 249. She
might be able to help you.

snip

Well, I am not intending to compete with wholesalers... just baiscally
looking for suppliers.

Understood. Wholesalers don't sell to the public. You want to compete
with retailers.

snip
Simplify as much as you can.

That is the most important statement I have ever seen regarding an
attempt to setup an LFS!

I've got about 400g set aside for plants, and I find that to be a bit
small, but it forces me to operate efficiently by purchasing and
marketing appropriately. If I had a lot more room, I'd get lazy about
it. The 400g is a revolving door. Most plants are not there long
enough to set down much in the way of roots. I doubt there is much
business case in growing your own (other than to support niches). Farms
do it much more efficiently.

I was think at least that size... however, it seems that I may have
been a little pre-mature in even investigating the issue... the Bank
ok'd about $125k to get the business going... not too sure that will
be enough.

I got my second response from the 'family' that owns the building in
question. This is a 3 bedroom 1,500 sq ft home with an out-buiolding
of approx 800 sq ft that was originally used for the 'fish store' and
then the store was moved into the home with the out-building being
converted to 'grow-out' tanks and storage only. This out-building is
a simple block wall with an aluminum roof... think garage. The roof
on the home has not been re-done for over 20 years and the home has
been vacant for the last 9 according to court documents... anyway, I
would have to do major repairs to the roof of the home, put in a new
parking lot (only small gravel lot now, and badly overgrown), the roof
on the out-building has fallen in on the back side (where I couldn't
see it from the road)... anyway, the repairs alone would come close to
$50k, they want over $130k for the house and property and $30k for the
contents (all the fish tanks etc)... which makes it a no-brainer...
meaning, no sale. That's apparently why the property has been tied up
soo long, each son (3) and the one daughter believe that they each
deserve $30-40k each for a business that has been dead for over 9
years... I had thought it was only 8, but court says almost 10 total,
9 years and 8 months...

Sooo anyway, even with what I have set aside and the loan, I would
still be about 30k shy of getting the property and would be opening a
store with absolutely no stock and no guarantee on the water
worthiness of all the tanks...

Just your average LFS with an emphasis on service.

Service has a high front end cost. The last 3 hours of my work today was
spent answering customer questions on a variety of aquarium topics, and
then I realized that during that period I sold nothing. I provided free
advice for 3 hours. This later usually translates into very loyal repeat
business, but profitability comes from selling at the best margins for
the least amount of effort, and the aquarium trade takes a lot of effort
to service properly, jmho.

Yep, I know... service/support costs money, but that's the kind of guy
I am... I don't want to get rich... I just need to be able to continue
to make my mortgage payments, any payments on the business and have
enough left over to be able to eat decently, and I am NOT talking
about eating steak dinners all the time.

Anyway, the bank wants numbers. Numbers on cost of setup, numbers on
cost of perishable/saleable supplies etc. That is what I am
attempting to build up right now. These numbers don't have to be set
in stone, but should be fairly close if at all possible. I have about
10-15k set aside in personal funds to add to whatever they will agree
to loan out to me.

The only perishibles (besides the fish ;~) are medications, food and test
kits. Your suppliers should be able to keep you in non-expired product
as long as you don't over-order poor sellers.

Yeah, this is the sort of thing / promise etc I need to get from the
suppliers... still doing the research because this is still what I
want to do... just not at the location I was hoping to use!

And thanks again, for the info you have provided... I will be
contacting those people mentioned as well as any others that I can get
information on/from.

I like the look of the DAS systems, but I don't think I can afford
them... I will probably end up doing my own, tripple, central
filtration system... starting with one group of tanks in the normal
6.8-7.2 ph range with 8-10 dKh since that is the local water levels,
at least in the major area around here... some wells are harder, (like
mine), and some are softer... city water depends on the local city
water department and still changes with the seasons, winter and spring
being the softest water with the lower ph ranges, summer it sort of
dries up a little, the ph and hardness rises, fall is the worst until
the late fall and early winter rains come again.

Once the business is going well enough to prove that I can make the
payments, I may be able to get another loan to expand into Salt water
systems if I get brave enough..

For other things, like stands and hoods, I have 5 different friends
that are cabinet makers... these guys, all 5, have offered to build
hoods and stands and put them on consignment in the store. 4 of the 5
have all the tools, saws, sanders, etc in their garages and are all in
business for themselves as contractors. These guys can turn out a
combo with a hood and stand in under 4 days (taking time for sealants
and stains etc to cure). Another friend has his own welding company
and can do the metal stands if people want them.

Anyway, Thank YOU NetMax, for your suggestions and help etc... I can't
ever say thanks enough... believe me. This research has been fun and
looks to still be an education!

"bannor" bannor -at- echoes - net - mind the spam block wrote in
message ...
On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 23:23:20 -0500, "NetMax"
wrote:
snip

Anyway, Thank YOU NetMax, for your suggestions and help etc... I can't
ever say thanks enough... believe me. This research has been fun and
looks to still be an education!

You're very welcome. I hope I hit the right balance between outlining
some economic issues, without completely discouraging you. I'm sorry
your prospective site didn't work out, but better to have found out
sooner than later.

When I've thought of doing this myself, I considered a hobby farm, on a
river, with an insulated structure which was in relatively close
proximity to a ploughed roadway, and to the river. The lot would need to
be serviced by well/septic (municipal supply for a lot on water would be
too expensive). I'd be pulling most of my water from the river at a
continuous low flow rate through UV filters. Ideally the river would
have enough current so that I could submerge a direct-coupled
water-current driven water pump under the dock, pumping up to water
storage tanks which would need to be close to waterline to keep head
pressure low. I've never seen a direct coupled water-driven water pump,
but I like inventing things ;~). Other than for this application (or
maybe watering gardens), it doesn't have much use, as the head pressure
and/or flow rate would be very low, but for a continuous water changing
system, it should work fine.

I don't think that a river source of water would have any environmental
impact, especially if your waste water went into a field of weeping tiles
(would support a huge vegetable garden ) (always minimizing your costs,
as veggies feed you and your fish).

Since the combination of river water and well water should give you every
fish-water recipe you need, and very little needs to be pumped
well-water, this minimizes your electrical operating costs to part-time
well pump and operating the UV lights (and any secondary pumps needed to
get the water above and to the fish tanks). Heating the fish-room would
probably be by pelleted wood stove (at least for my part of the world).
This is easy to have run continuously to a thermostat by just filling the
hopper. So this makes for a centralized heating system (wood stove), I'd
centralize my lighting (overhead) with inspection lights from the ceiling
(like those used for auto repair), and for filtration, a rotary pump
running air to home-made air-driven sponge filters, one to a tank.

I've skipped lots of details, like using 2 holding tanks, outside tank
uses ambient air to heat cold river water, inside tank for mixing,
diverting and is then heated by indoor ambient (or SS pipes, or roof PVC
tubes) for tank filling and w/c's, - or using custom made plywood or
concrete tanks etc etc (I have trouble shutting up sometimes ;~) What
you might find is that when you are finished, your fish-room might not
have anything in common with your home aquarium, or anything at your LFS
(except for the fish ;~).

I suggest that you pick up a book on the construction of autonomous
housing, and scale the fundaments on water handling, energy conservation
and environmental controls to your operation. There are lots of
money-saving concepts which you can easily be applied to a fish-room, if
you are at the correct latitude (for average outdoor temperatures and
radiant exposure). I mention this because I think that Pennsylvania
could be quite favourable (at least compared to here, Ottawa Canada).

Another alternative is to locate in an old dirty industrial zone, low
taxes, lots of water & electricity, close to airport/bus depots and main
highways (transport costs and shipping times are significant concerns to
this business). Rack & stack tanks to the ceiling. Use centralized
everything almost everywhere and start a trans-shipping business. This
puts you into the network of supplier/buyers (wholesalers) and would
provide you with a veritable cornucopia of exotic fish for re-sale or
breeding stock. However, note that anyone who has gone down this road,
has a) almost completely stopped breeding any fish and b) does not sell
to consumers, so that should tell you something about the economics of
the trade (and I don't think that's your direction). Also consider what
component your walk-in traffic has in your business plan, when choosing a
spot in rural, suburban or industrial locations (I'd go rural edge of
suburbia within 15 minutes of major thoroughfares myself), and (IMHO),
you really need to work a niche as simply as possible to compete.

cheers
NetMax

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:02:08 -0500, "NetMax"
wrote:
"bannor" bannor -at- echoes - net - mind the spam block wrote in
message ...
On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 23:23:20 -0500, "NetMax"
wrote:
snip
Anyway, Thank YOU NetMax, for your suggestions and help etc... I can't
ever say thanks enough... believe me. This research has been fun and
looks to still be an education!

You're very welcome. I hope I hit the right balance between outlining
some economic issues, without completely discouraging you. I'm sorry
your prospective site didn't work out, but better to have found out
sooner than later.

When I've thought of doing this myself, I considered a hobby farm, on a
river, with an insulated structure which was in relatively close
proximity to a ploughed roadway, and to the river. The lot would need to
be serviced by well/septic (municipal supply for a lot on water would be
too expensive). I'd be pulling most of my water from the river at a
continuous low flow rate through UV filters. Ideally the river would
have enough current so that I could submerge a direct-coupled
water-current driven water pump under the dock, pumping up to water
storage tanks which would need to be close to waterline to keep head
pressure low. I've never seen a direct coupled water-driven water pump,
but I like inventing things ;~). Other than for this application (or
maybe watering gardens), it doesn't have much use, as the head pressure
and/or flow rate would be very low, but for a continuous water changing
system, it should work fine.

I don't think that a river source of water would have any environmental
impact, especially if your waste water went into a field of weeping tiles
(would support a huge vegetable garden ) (always minimizing your costs,
as veggies feed you and your fish).

Since the combination of river water and well water should give you every
fish-water recipe you need, and very little needs to be pumped
well-water, this minimizes your electrical operating costs to part-time
well pump and operating the UV lights (and any secondary pumps needed to
get the water above and to the fish tanks). Heating the fish-room would
probably be by pelleted wood stove (at least for my part of the world).
This is easy to have run continuously to a thermostat by just filling the
hopper. So this makes for a centralized heating system (wood stove), I'd
centralize my lighting (overhead) with inspection lights from the ceiling
(like those used for auto repair), and for filtration, a rotary pump
running air to home-made air-driven sponge filters, one to a tank.

I've skipped lots of details, like using 2 holding tanks, outside tank
uses ambient air to heat cold river water, inside tank for mixing,
diverting and is then heated by indoor ambient (or SS pipes, or roof PVC
tubes) for tank filling and w/c's, - or using custom made plywood or
concrete tanks etc etc (I have trouble shutting up sometimes ;~) What
you might find is that when you are finished, your fish-room might not
have anything in common with your home aquarium, or anything at your LFS
(except for the fish ;~).

I suggest that you pick up a book on the construction of autonomous
housing, and scale the fundaments on water handling, energy conservation
and environmental controls to your operation. There are lots of
money-saving concepts which you can easily be applied to a fish-room, if
you are at the correct latitude (for average outdoor temperatures and
radiant exposure). I mention this because I think that Pennsylvania
could be quite favourable (at least compared to here, Ottawa Canada).

Another alternative is to locate in an old dirty industrial zone, low
taxes, lots of water & electricity, close to airport/bus depots and main
highways (transport costs and shipping times are significant concerns to
this business). Rack & stack tanks to the ceiling. Use centralized
everything almost everywhere and start a trans-shipping business. This
puts you into the network of supplier/buyers (wholesalers) and would
provide you with a veritable cornucopia of exotic fish for re-sale or
breeding stock. However, note that anyone who has gone down this road,
has a) almost completely stopped breeding any fish and b) does not sell
to consumers, so that should tell you something about the economics of
the trade (and I don't think that's your direction). Also consider what
component your walk-in traffic has in your business plan, when choosing a
spot in rural, suburban or industrial locations (I'd go rural edge of
suburbia within 15 minutes of major thoroughfares myself), and (IMHO),
you really need to work a niche as simply as possible to compete.

cheers
NetMax


Wow... I mean WOW... you did it again... as far as I am concerned you
can 'chat' away all you want... those are some really good ideas!

Obviously you have thought about this with serious consideration... as
to the local temps here... where I am, right in the Pocono mountains,
the winters are too cold to use ambient outside air to warm water
enough to really make a difference.

I have been planning on moving south for a few years, soon to turn
into a decade... maybe once I get a few hundred miles farther south I
could consider something along the lines you suggest with the river
water/well water and outside holding tanks...

I guess it is all back to the dreaming stage unless these guys come
down on the price for their property... heck, even the real estate
agent, THEIR real estate agent, said they were nuts asking so much for
the property since they are not maintaining it. they are about 50k
above the local housing values and the house is smaller than the rest
in the neighborhood etc... oh well.. I will keep plugging along and
add some more notes to my research files for when I can find the right
location.

Hey Bannor
FWIW

If you're going large scale you can always get the local municipality
involved, have them fund your water and electricity costs. There is a chap
near to where I live that has a setup like this, he's a breeder and has over
1000 tanks. Our electricity supplier (Eskom) funds all the costs (when he
approached them about this he used the "all in the name of conservation"
line). Bigger companies are usually more than willing to support projects in
"the name on conservation". Take petroleum companies for example (hint),
they're forever getting in the crap over environmental issues, so when
someone approaches them with a conservation plan they usually bite pretty
quickly, it makes them look good (yes Mr. GreenPeace officer, we're sorry
about the countless rural communities we've destroyed in Africa, BUT, we
fund all of these groovy nature conservation projects). It looks very good
on their portfolio.
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**


"bannor" bannor -at- echoes - net - mind the spam block wrote in message
...
On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:02:08 -0500, "NetMax"
wrote:
"bannor" bannor -at- echoes - net - mind the spam block wrote in
message ...
On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 23:23:20 -0500, "NetMax"
wrote:
snip
Anyway, Thank YOU NetMax, for your suggestions and help etc... I can't
ever say thanks enough... believe me. This research has been fun and
looks to still be an education!

You're very welcome. I hope I hit the right balance between outlining
some economic issues, without completely discouraging you. I'm sorry
your prospective site didn't work out, but better to have found out
sooner than later.

When I've thought of doing this myself, I considered a hobby farm, on a
river, with an insulated structure which was in relatively close
proximity to a ploughed roadway, and to the river. The lot would need to
be serviced by well/septic (municipal supply for a lot on water would be
too expensive). I'd be pulling most of my water from the river at a
continuous low flow rate through UV filters. Ideally the river would
have enough current so that I could submerge a direct-coupled
water-current driven water pump under the dock, pumping up to water
storage tanks which would need to be close to waterline to keep head
pressure low. I've never seen a direct coupled water-driven water pump,
but I like inventing things ;~). Other than for this application (or
maybe watering gardens), it doesn't have much use, as the head pressure
and/or flow rate would be very low, but for a continuous water changing
system, it should work fine.

I don't think that a river source of water would have any environmental
impact, especially if your waste water went into a field of weeping tiles
(would support a huge vegetable garden ) (always minimizing your costs,
as veggies feed you and your fish).

Since the combination of river water and well water should give you every
fish-water recipe you need, and very little needs to be pumped
well-water, this minimizes your electrical operating costs to part-time
well pump and operating the UV lights (and any secondary pumps needed to
get the water above and to the fish tanks). Heating the fish-room would
probably be by pelleted wood stove (at least for my part of the world).
This is easy to have run continuously to a thermostat by just filling the
hopper. So this makes for a centralized heating system (wood stove), I'd
centralize my lighting (overhead) with inspection lights from the ceiling
(like those used for auto repair), and for filtration, a rotary pump
running air to home-made air-driven sponge filters, one to a tank.

I've skipped lots of details, like using 2 holding tanks, outside tank
uses ambient air to heat cold river water, inside tank for mixing,
diverting and is then heated by indoor ambient (or SS pipes, or roof PVC
tubes) for tank filling and w/c's, - or using custom made plywood or
concrete tanks etc etc (I have trouble shutting up sometimes ;~) What
you might find is that when you are finished, your fish-room might not
have anything in common with your home aquarium, or anything at your LFS
(except for the fish ;~).

I suggest that you pick up a book on the construction of autonomous
housing, and scale the fundaments on water handling, energy conservation
and environmental controls to your operation. There are lots of
money-saving concepts which you can easily be applied to a fish-room, if
you are at the correct latitude (for average outdoor temperatures and
radiant exposure). I mention this because I think that Pennsylvania
could be quite favourable (at least compared to here, Ottawa Canada).

Another alternative is to locate in an old dirty industrial zone, low
taxes, lots of water & electricity, close to airport/bus depots and main
highways (transport costs and shipping times are significant concerns to
this business). Rack & stack tanks to the ceiling. Use centralized
everything almost everywhere and start a trans-shipping business. This
puts you into the network of supplier/buyers (wholesalers) and would
provide you with a veritable cornucopia of exotic fish for re-sale or
breeding stock. However, note that anyone who has gone down this road,
has a) almost completely stopped breeding any fish and b) does not sell
to consumers, so that should tell you something about the economics of
the trade (and I don't think that's your direction). Also consider what
component your walk-in traffic has in your business plan, when choosing a
spot in rural, suburban or industrial locations (I'd go rural edge of
suburbia within 15 minutes of major thoroughfares myself), and (IMHO),
you really need to work a niche as simply as possible to compete.

cheers
NetMax


Wow... I mean WOW... you did it again... as far as I am concerned you
can 'chat' away all you want... those are some really good ideas!

Obviously you have thought about this with serious consideration... as
to the local temps here... where I am, right in the Pocono mountains,
the winters are too cold to use ambient outside air to warm water
enough to really make a difference.

I have been planning on moving south for a few years, soon to turn
into a decade... maybe once I get a few hundred miles farther south I
could consider something along the lines you suggest with the river
water/well water and outside holding tanks...

I guess it is all back to the dreaming stage unless these guys come
down on the price for their property... heck, even the real estate
agent, THEIR real estate agent, said they were nuts asking so much for
the property since they are not maintaining it. they are about 50k
above the local housing values and the house is smaller than the rest
in the neighborhood etc... oh well.. I will keep plugging along and
add some more notes to my research files for when I can find the right
location.