What is the best type of pond snail?

"Mister Gardener" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 3 May 2006 13:59:29 +0100, "loopy livernose"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
there is no such thing as a good snail snip

can you quantify that statement please? I was of the belief snails were
beneficial to a pond, and are definitely part of a natural ponds
ecosystem.

Loopy

The State of Maine Fish and Wildlife Department agrees that there is
no such thing as a good snail, hence their importation into the state
is illegal.

"Snails - Because they serve as intermediate host for a wide range of
aquatic parasites and other pathogens, all snails (Gastropoda) are
restricted and can be imported only by a special importation permit
with specific health certifications, therefore snails cannot be traded
by commercial pet shops. "

Introducing a snail into a fish pond would likely bring a double
whammy, since pond fish are banned in the sate of Maine as well. I had
the pleasure of meeting the man who does inspections across the state
to enforce these laws. I asked him whether a pond in a private
person's yard could have any fish at all, and he told me yes, they may
have fish like shiners and blue gills if those fish were obtained from
another lake in the state, but only with a special permit. He told me
he has shut down hundreds of goldfish ponds and that the fine is
$10,000. I ran into the guy quite by accident and I ran as many
questions past him as I could, and I could have kept him busy for a
few days without stopping for a break. Getting the story (and reason)
on each and every species on the banned or permitted list.

Introducing tadpoles into any body of water is illegal. First grade
teachers are no longer permitted to bring in their tadpoles in a jar
classroom projects.

We were in a pet shop for this conversation, a pet shop that I knew
had tons of little snails that had hitchhiked into the state on
aquatic plants. I asked him if the law, and his enforcement, extended
to those snails as well. He said, if I inspect the tanks here, and see
a snail, I will tell the owner to kill them, and I will wait to see
that it is done. Otherwise, I could shut down the store or issue a
very large fine.

When I posted the link to Maine's official list of allowed and banned
species a few weeks ago, several people expressed disbelief that the
Jack Dempsey has been added to the list of banned imports. How, many
people asked, could a Jack Dempsey be a threat, no way could one
survive a Maine winter. I asked the inspector about this and he told
me that Jack Dempseys were found to have survived more than one winter
in the state of Connecticut, whose climate can be just as harsh as
southern Maine. Amazing.

Recently, officials were finally able to capture and remove an
alligator that had survived 3 winters in a Maine pond.

And on a more hopeful note, this guy is not all bad. He told me he has
closed 3 WalMart fish departments and expects to close another one
this week.


Many thanks for the lengthy reply.

I am in the UK and find all this quite interesting, although our laws are
as yet far less encroaching we are getting there slowly.

I have a Very few Ramshorn (natural pond snails that are native) snails in
my pond, but they breed very slowly and if the fish don't eat them, I don't
know why I have so few.

My Parents had some whelk looking long shelled snails in there pond and they
seem to eat everything!! They are non native but have now almost taken over
our waterways and rivers, leaving ramshorn's suffering because they breed so
much slower.

I just keep a few ramshorns in my veggie filter (well there's 2 in there)
and a few in my "frog bog".

But I will bear this thread in mind, because I was thinking of buying some
"tiger" (Viviparous striped pond snails) snails, but I think I'll maybe give
Em a miss now!!

loopy




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On Wed, 03 May 2006 10:04:46 -0400, Mister Gardener
wrote:

this post. This is the link to the official list of species that
ARE PERMITTED to be imported into the state. If it's not on this list,
it's not allowed.
http://www.state.me.us/ifw/wildlife/...tedspecies.htm

The State of Maine Fish and Wildlife Department agrees that there is
no such thing as a good snail, hence their importation into the state
is illegal.

"Snails - Because they serve as intermediate host for a wide range of
aquatic parasites and other pathogens, all snails (Gastropoda) are
restricted and can be imported only by a special importation permit
with specific health certifications, therefore snails cannot be traded
by commercial pet shops. "

Introducing a snail into a fish pond would likely bring a double
whammy, since pond fish are banned in the sate of Maine as well. I had
the pleasure of meeting the man who does inspections across the state
to enforce these laws. I asked him whether a pond in a private
person's yard could have any fish at all, and he told me yes, they may
have fish like shiners and blue gills if those fish were obtained from
another lake in the state, but only with a special permit. He told me
he has shut down hundreds of goldfish ponds and that the fine is
$10,000. I ran into the guy quite by accident and I ran as many
questions past him as I could, and I could have kept him busy for a
few days without stopping for a break. Getting the story (and reason)
on each and every species on the banned or permitted list.

Introducing tadpoles into any body of water is illegal. First grade
teachers are no longer permitted to bring in their tadpoles in a jar
classroom projects.

We were in a pet shop for this conversation, a pet shop that I knew
had tons of little snails that had hitchhiked into the state on
aquatic plants. I asked him if the law, and his enforcement, extended
to those snails as well. He said, if I inspect the tanks here, and see
a snail, I will tell the owner to kill them, and I will wait to see
that it is done. Otherwise, I could shut down the store or issue a
very large fine.

When I posted the link to Maine's official list of allowed and banned
species a few weeks ago, several people expressed disbelief that the
Jack Dempsey has been added to the list of banned imports. How, many
people asked, could a Jack Dempsey be a threat, no way could one
survive a Maine winter. I asked the inspector about this and he told
me that Jack Dempseys were found to have survived more than one winter
in the state of Connecticut, whose climate can be just as harsh as
southern Maine. Amazing.

Recently, officials were finally able to capture and remove an
alligator that had survived 3 winters in a Maine pond.

And on a more hopeful note, this guy is not all bad. He told me he has
closed 3 WalMart fish departments and expects to close another one
this week.

-- Mister Gardener
-- Pull the WEED to email me

Mister Gardener wrote:

When I posted the link to Maine's official list of allowed and banned
species a few weeks ago, several people expressed disbelief that the
Jack Dempsey has been added to the list of banned imports. How, many
people asked, could a Jack Dempsey be a threat, no way could one
survive a Maine winter. I asked the inspector about this and he told
me that Jack Dempseys were found to have survived more than one winter
in the state of Connecticut, whose climate can be just as harsh as
southern Maine. Amazing.

He "said" that, but I still maintain that it's no more than a suburban
legend. There's no documentation available online, and the one source I
was able to find for you implicitly stated that they have not been
naturalized.
--
derek

loopy livernose wrote:


"Mister Gardener" wrote in message
...

Recently, officials were finally able to capture and remove an
alligator that had survived 3 winters in a Maine pond.


An alligator, btw, is subtropical (not to mention much more massive). Jack
Dempseys are tropical. The fact that an alligator could survive says
nothing about Dempseys.

I have a Very few Ramshorn (natural pond snails that are native) snails in
my pond, but they breed very slowly and if the fish don't eat them, I
don't know why I have so few.

Fish and/or acid rain. Acidity weakens their shells, making it easier for
fish to extract the snail, but goldfish and koi will munch on snails
anyway.
--
derek

wrote:

your pond is not natural. snails are intermediate host for diseases of
fish. if you arent going to have goldfish or koi, then there isnt a
problem. large snails, when they die and rot, are gaggingly putrid stinky.

Only if they have massive enough shells to deter the fish - otherwise they
get eaten anyway (of course, still exposing the fish to potential disease).
--
derek

On Wed, 03 May 2006 14:27:06 -0300, Derek Broughton
wrote:

Mister Gardener wrote:

When I posted the link to Maine's official list of allowed and banned
species a few weeks ago, several people expressed disbelief that the
Jack Dempsey has been added to the list of banned imports. How, many
people asked, could a Jack Dempsey be a threat, no way could one
survive a Maine winter. I asked the inspector about this and he told
me that Jack Dempseys were found to have survived more than one winter
in the state of Connecticut, whose climate can be just as harsh as
southern Maine. Amazing.

He "said" that, but I still maintain that it's no more than a suburban
legend. There's no documentation available online, and the one source I
was able to find for you implicitly stated that they have not been
naturalized.

I'm sorry Derek, but he is one of the officials of the State
Department of Fish and Wildlife. I really doubt he is acting on urban
legends. And surviving a winter is the first step toward
naturalization, the goal here is to prevent naturalization. I've
posted the web site, I'm sure you can express your differences to one
of the addresses listed there.

-- Mister Gardener
-- Pull the WEED to email me

Mister Gardener wrote:
On Wed, 03 May 2006 10:04:46 -0400, Mister Gardener
wrote:

this post. This is the link to the official list of species that
ARE PERMITTED to be imported into the state. If it's not on this list,
it's not allowed.
http://www.state.me.us/ifw/wildlife/...tedspecies.htm



Thanks for posting Maine's list! A great many types of fish seem to be
allowed, so it doesn't appear too restrictive.

It does seem to me though, that the aquarium/ pond hobby does not pose
much harm to our natural environment. Certain types of plants
(milfoil...) excepted.

On Wed, 03 May 2006 13:52:17 -0400, netDenizen wrote:

Mister Gardener wrote:
On Wed, 03 May 2006 10:04:46 -0400, Mister Gardener
wrote:

this post. This is the link to the official list of species that
ARE PERMITTED to be imported into the state. If it's not on this list,
it's not allowed.
http://www.state.me.us/ifw/wildlife/...tedspecies.htm



Thanks for posting Maine's list! A great many types of fish seem to be
allowed, so it doesn't appear too restrictive.

They only began this list thing a few years ago, and for the first
year or two, the list was very short, as each species had to be
studied before addition to the list. And that take time. It drove the
pet industry and hobbyists wild!


It does seem to me though, that the aquarium/ pond hobby does not pose
much harm to our natural environment. Certain types of plants
(milfoil...) excepted.

Maine's restricted plant list is short, but includes two milfoils.
Milfoil is a dirty word around these parts.

-- Mister Gardener
-- Pull the WEED to email me