Denitrators

Do these things "work?"

Why do you think you need one?

That is, doesn't the nitrate have to turn into
something?!

Yes N2 and H2O via denitrifying bacteria present in your live rock.

See:
http://www.aquariumfish.com/aquarium...d=3793&search=

What is the waste product of the de nitrifying bacteria?

N2 and H2O.

Wouldn't the TDS levels still rise? If so, doesn't this mean water
changes are still vital?

Contrary to popular marine aquarium lore, you DO NOT NEED to do partial
water changes. My nitrites and nitrates are UNDETECTABLE using store
bought LFS test kits. I have not done a water change in over a year (very
close to two).

If you are the type of person that only changes water when the things you
test for change (rise in nitrates,
nitrites blah blah blah) then I can see this just disguising the need
to do water changes. Am I making any sense?

"...disguising the need to do water changes." ...hmm If something
causes your nitrites and nitrates to be very low than why would you NEED to
do a water change? Just for fun?

Of course I would never DREAM of slacking on my water changes (before
MG says something)

Stop following the herd!

"Stoutman" [email protected] wrote in message ...
Contrary to popular marine aquarium lore, you DO NOT NEED to do partial
water changes. My nitrites and nitrates are UNDETECTABLE using store
bought LFS test kits. I have not done a water change in over a year (very
close to two).
[...]
"...disguising the need to do water changes." ...hmm If something
causes your nitrites and nitrates to be very low than why would you NEED
to do a water change? Just for fun?

So you are saying that over time the water chemistry
will not change in the closed system like a reef tank ?

You know, there are much more different ions there
beside NO3-... With partial water change you replenish
ions used up by growing animals/plants in your tank.
You also remove organic byproducts your skimmer left behind.

[...]
"...disguising the need to do water changes." ...hmm If something
causes your nitrites and nitrates to be very low than why would you NEED
to do a water change? Just for fun?


So you are saying that over time the water chemistry
will not change in the closed system like a reef tank ?

This is called setting up a "straw man". No. I am not saying this at all.


You know, there are much more different ions there
beside NO3-...

Yes, I am aware.

With partial water change you replenish
ions used up by growing animals/plants in your tank.

I add trace elements (Kent Marine Essential Elements) on a monthly basis.

You also remove organic byproducts your skimmer left behind.

Such as?

"Stoutman" [email protected] wrote in message m...
So you are saying that over time the water chemistry
will not change in the closed system like a reef tank ?

This is called setting up a "straw man".
No. I am not saying this at all.

You were questioning the reason to change water
based on nitrates...

You know, there are much more different ions there
beside NO3-...

Yes, I am aware.

Then you are probably aware also, that 80% of their
levels you cannot measure at home acuratelly.

With partial water change you replenish
ions used up by growing animals/plants in your tank.

I add trace elements (Kent Marine Essential Elements) on a monthly basis.

Each element is used up in a different speed, but you dump
all of them on a monthly basis regardless if you need it or not.
That will lead over time to chemical imbalance and your tank
water will be far, far away from the content of natural sea water
compared to the water mixed from the fresh salt mix.

You also remove organic byproducts your skimmer left behind.

Such as?

All these which make your water smell and look yellow.
Corals, other invertebrates, fish and plants constantly
release many substances to the water which accumulate
in the closed system like an aquarium. You are not able
to measure them or detect them in home situation...
Changing water refreshes the water and brings it back
to its original ionic combination...

Would you be fine if your house was perfectly sealed
from the outside air and you just reduce amount of
CO2 and add oxygen on regular basis but would not
exchange air for years? How do you think your house
would smell ? :-))

Pszemol wrote on 9/16/2006 9:20 AM:
"Stoutman" [email protected] wrote in message
m...
So you are saying that over time the water chemistry
will not change in the closed system like a reef tank ?

This is called setting up a "straw man".
No. I am not saying this at all.

You were questioning the reason to change water
based on nitrates...

You know, there are much more different ions there
beside NO3-...

Yes, I am aware.

Then you are probably aware also, that 80% of their
levels you cannot measure at home acuratelly.

With partial water change you replenish
ions used up by growing animals/plants in your tank.

I add trace elements (Kent Marine Essential Elements) on a monthly basis.

Each element is used up in a different speed, but you dump
all of them on a monthly basis regardless if you need it or not.
That will lead over time to chemical imbalance and your tank
water will be far, far away from the content of natural sea water
compared to the water mixed from the fresh salt mix.

You also remove organic byproducts your skimmer left behind.

Such as?

All these which make your water smell and look yellow.
Corals, other invertebrates, fish and plants constantly
release many substances to the water which accumulate
in the closed system like an aquarium. You are not able
to measure them or detect them in home situation...
Changing water refreshes the water and brings it back
to its original ionic combination...
Would you be fine if your house was perfectly sealed
from the outside air and you just reduce amount of
CO2 and add oxygen on regular basis but would not
exchange air for years? How do you think your house would smell ? :-))

hehehe yep, and while he's at it, Stoutman can do away
with the toilet, just use a can, and stop taking showers :-)

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets

--
You were questioning the reason to change water
based on nitrates...

I am not questioning anything, I am answering Adam's (the OP) question. See
above in the thread.


You know, there are much more different ions there
beside NO3-...

Yes, I am aware.

Then you are probably aware also, that 80% of their
levels you cannot measure at home acuratelly.

80% of what levels? Can you be more specific? Doesn't how accurate you
need to be depend on the ion you are referring to?


With partial water change you replenish
ions used up by growing animals/plants in your tank.

I add trace elements (Kent Marine Essential Elements) on a monthly basis.

Each element is used up in a different speed, but you dump
all of them on a monthly basis regardless if you need it or not.

How do you replenish your trace elements? Partial water change? When you
do your partial water change you are removing some percentage of water
(15-20%?) and adding artificial sea salt (usually contains trace elements).
How do you know your tank needs it (trace elements)?

That will lead over time to chemical imbalance and your tank
water will be far, far away from the content of natural sea water
compared to the water mixed from the fresh salt mix.

You are FAR MORE likely to cause a chemical imbalance by replacing a
percentage (15-20%?) of your aquarium water with home made sea water than
you are by doing no water change.



You also remove organic byproducts your skimmer left behind.

Such as?

All these which make your water smell and look yellow.
Corals, other invertebrates, fish and plants constantly
release many substances to the water which accumulate
in the closed system like an aquarium.

My skimmer runs 24hrs a day. The organic compounds it doesn't remove on the
first pass will more than likely be removed on the second, third, fourth or
fifth, etc. pass.

You are not able to measure them or detect them in home situation...

Agreed. Therefore, I have NO reason to question my skimmers effectiveness.
I can only go by the health/appearance of my tank mates. They are doing
fine. All is well. My water is not yellow and it does not smell.

Changing water refreshes the water and brings it back
to its original ionic combination...


The only way YOU would "bring it back to its original" condition is if you
changed 100% of your water. Is this what you are doing? If this is what
you are doing you are doing more harm than good.


Would you be fine if your house was perfectly sealed
from the outside air and you just reduce amount of
CO2 and add oxygen on regular basis but would not
exchange air for years?

Another straw man.

How do you think your house would smell ? :-))

I do not have microorganisms that eat and decompose my excrements, my
aquarium inhabitants do.

Stoutman wrote on 9/16/2006 3:28 AM:
I add trace elements (Kent Marine *Essential* Elements) on a monthly basis.




heheheheheheh

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets

Stoutman wrote on 9/15/2006 9:52 PM:
Contrary to popular marine aquarium lore, you DO NOT NEED to do partial
water changes. My nitrites and nitrates are UNDETECTABLE using store
bought LFS test kits. I have not done a water change in over a year (very
close to two).


LOL this is a reef newsgroup, not a fish only newsgroup.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets

LOL this is a reef newsgroup, not a fish only newsgroup.

That's right, I have a FOWLR tank, nevertheless, my comments are still
applicable.

You only have half of the picture :-)

hehehe

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Stoutman wrote on 9/16/2006 11:13 AM:
LOL this is a reef newsgroup, not a fish only newsgroup.

That's right, I have a FOWLR tank, nevertheless, my comments are still
applicable.