Julidochromis ornatus: inbred?

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 14:28:41 +0000, Fishman wrote:

Any collector around the lake won't compete with the quantity the 1000's of
locals catch for food!

hm, you've got a point there... I figure that there are too few
cichlidiots around the world to make it a threat then... however, I can
imagine that there are some malevolent people who try make quick money by
catching huge amounts of fish.

ah, well...

speaking of food... I believe that lake victoria's ecosystem was destroyed
by a nice man who wanted to help the locals because the fish present in
the lake were too bony...

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:12:20 +0100, Tjaard de Vries
wrote:



speaking of food... I believe that lake victoria's ecosystem was destroyed
by a nice man who wanted to help the locals because the fish present in
the lake were too bony...

Introduced predators have reduced many of the Lake Victoria cichlids
to a very low level but, apparently, a few species are adapting.

A few years ago I was helping to train a programmer from Uganda. She
lived close to the lake and described the introduced plant problem
very well. "It's green all the way to the horizon".

"Fishman" wrote in message
...
Any collector around the lake won't compete with the quantity the 1000's of
locals catch for food!



That may be true in some of the species. But the fishermen typically stick to
the larger species for food or species that they can collect in quantity.
Feather fins don't offer much in the way of meat. I saw more catfish being
caught. The Boulengerochromis and various large catfish were also popular along
with the perch.
I'm afraid with species like the afore mentioned Tropheus and Ophthalmotilapia
boops "neon streak", the collectors are the ones responsible for decimating the
populations. Not all the collectors, but it only really takes one.
AC

Fair comment although I can't imagine any of the food fisherman returning
anything edible back to the lake - rare or not.

Arn't the exporting fish collectors licenced (as they are on Lake Malawi) or
is it country dependant / not enforced.
If so the licencing authorities ought to restrict / ban the export of
threatened species.

Tjaard de Vries wrote:
the thing I wonder about is this: how is the situation now, are there now
better specimens available? I don't necessarily need wild caught fish, but
I'd hate to have fish that are degenerated due to human intervention, as
the book was written in '92, I wondered whether the situation has changed,
for fish in general and J. ornatus in particular.

Well, just checked a few online Tanganyikan dealers I know of and Armke's
has F1 J. ornatus for sale. There's also the albino ornatus at a couple of
places. You might be able to find more if you search around a little.

"Cichlidiot" wrote in message
...
Tjaard de Vries wrote:
the thing I wonder about is this: how is the situation now, are there
now
better specimens available? I don't necessarily need wild caught fish,
but
I'd hate to have fish that are degenerated due to human intervention, as
the book was written in '92, I wondered whether the situation has
changed,
for fish in general and J. ornatus in particular.

Well, just checked a few online Tanganyikan dealers I know of and Armke's
has F1 J. ornatus for sale. There's also the albino ornatus at a couple of
places. You might be able to find more if you search around a little.

Try AquaBid.. There might be some there for sale.. I see the F1 denotation
once in a while there on some of the fish.. Good Luck...

Tim...

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 00:31:01 +0000, Cichlidiot wrote:

Well, just checked a few online Tanganyikan dealers I know of and Armke's
has F1 J. ornatus for sale. There's also the albino ornatus at a couple of
places. You might be able to find more if you search around a little.

online dealers :S ?

hm, I live in the Netherlands, there are some nice shops around here, but
this F1 thing:

I remember something about genetics in biology class, is the F1 from: P:
parentes (wild caught in this case), F1: filii 1 (the first generation
descendants of P)?
I'm always afraid that the fish in a store of a species in a tank are all
siblings... .

Tjaard de Vries wrote:
On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 00:31:01 +0000, Cichlidiot wrote:

Well, just checked a few online Tanganyikan dealers I know of and Armke's
has F1 J. ornatus for sale. There's also the albino ornatus at a couple of
places. You might be able to find more if you search around a little.

online dealers :S ?

hm, I live in the Netherlands, there are some nice shops around here, but
this F1 thing:

I remember something about genetics in biology class, is the F1 from: P:
parentes (wild caught in this case), F1: filii 1 (the first generation
descendants of P)?
I'm always afraid that the fish in a store of a species in a tank are all
siblings... .

F1 does mean spawn of wild caught fish, however, you don't always get
siblings in a tank of F1s. For example, I have three sets of F1 Neolamp.
similis from different pairings, two of almost identical age. Two groups
have the same mother and different fathers. The third group is from the
other female and a third male. So I could sell them all locally as F1
similis, but they would not all be related. Likewise, if you deal directly
with a breeder, you can see if they have different spawning pairs and
request fry from different pairs if you are concerned about genetic
diversity. As long as it doesn't put an undue workload on the breeder of
course. Key thing is to establish relationships with the breeders by
talking with them. Even if they don't have multiple pairs or spawns, they
may know of other breeders and could help you get in contact with them.