Eradicating BBA

That's very encouraging news.

Where did you buy it? I can't find anywhere in the USA that has it.

Thanks, Chris.




"Tasslehoff Burfoot" wrote in message
...
It worked like a charm for me 10 months ago in my 3' tank. It takes 2
weeks
treatment(1 drop/`15G) although it seems to take about 8 days to actually
kick in and then you'll notice the reduction very very quickly. 30% water
changes every 3 days if I remember correctly as it totally decimates your
biological filter bacteria (words to that effect on the fine print box,
hehe). I still occasionally get it in my planted low light 3' tank if I
overdose iron or neglect water changes for a month. I've had minor traces
of it in my high light/CO2 4' tank if you look hard enough for a few
minutes
amost since it was set up a year ago but have never had to add any azoo
treatment to this tank.

"Michi Henning" wrote in message
...
"Chris_S" wrote in message
...

WOW! Now that's real news. I found the manfs product info:

http://www.azoo.com.tw/azoo_en/modul...eview&bkid=309

It's AZOO product number AZ17086. I found another user post somewhere
and
they said it got rid of their BBA in 14 days. If true, that is very
good
news indeed.

The only fish stores that seem to have it are outside the US. Have not
found it yet in any of the US websites.

It's certainly worth a try if I can get some.

Thanks for the info!!!

Well, I've never tried it, so I'm looking for people with first-hand
experience
*before* I get all excited :-)

I've heard anecdotes at my LFS that the stuff works. But I don't know
anything else about it. For example, is it safe for crustaceans? (Azoo
Algae Treater is *not*.) Anyway, if anyone has tried the stuff, I'd be
keen to hear how well it worked.

Cheers,

Michi.

--
Michi Henning Ph: +61 4 1118-2700
ZeroC, Inc. http://www.zeroc.com

"Chris_S" wrote in message
...
Hi:

There was no phosphate in the water at all.

Well, there's your problem. Or at least one of them. There's a very simple
and frequently mentioned principle to getting rid of algae. FOCUS ON THE
PLANTS. Give them abundant nutrients, including NO3, PO4, & K, but most
importantly CO2. Forget about the algae for a while. When the plants are at
their *optimal* health, the algae will go away automatically. If you still
have algae, then your plants not at their peak health. Don't ask me how this
works, but it works for sure. It might have something to do with O2 levels,
I don't know. As you probably found out, it's impossible to kill BBA by
trying to starve it. Here are the nutrient levels you need to keep:

CO2: 25-35 ppm (at all times)
NO3: 5-15 ppm
PO4: at least 0.5 ppm
K: ~20 ppm estimated

For traces, you need to watch for iron deficiency and add as much of your
trace supplement as necessary to keep it from occuring. You have to obtain
some KNO3, K2SO4, KH2PO4, and either Seachem Flourish or Tropica MasterGrow,
if you don't have these already. Check the archive of this newsgroup for
sources of these. You'd probably have to add around 3/4 tsp of each KNO3 and
K2SO4, and a few pinches of KH2PO4 per week, but search the archive for more
thorough instructions.

Yet the BBA on the plants which
were put in the tank still grew. From what else I read, and from my
experience, any water that will grow plants will grow BBA.

Not true. How is it that so many planted tanks have flourishing plants, no
algae eaters, and no visible BBA? It's not because algae cells simply don't
exist in those tanks.


So, I have come to the decision that killing it all in the entire tank
system is the only real solution. From what I read either Chlorine or
Copper will do it. Chlorine seems to work much faster. What I plan to do
is:

Any other suggestions or advice?

Yes, don't even consider it. As far as I'm concerned, your method is
short-sighted and the complete OPPOSITE of what you should be doing. It does
nothing beneficial for plants. It may kill your fish, and more likely than
not will lead you to more frustration because of this or other algae issues.
Support for methods like this makes me kind of angry, because they
completely disregard the proper way of controlling algae, by caring for the
plants. It's been established and is discussed frequently on this newsgroup
and on the Aquatic Plants Digest by Tom Barr and others. First try feeding
your plants adequately, and *then* use poisonous substances to try to kill
algae if you want. But the only thing that will work for you is keeping the
nutrient levels high, if you ask me.
__
Alex
pcalex (at) hotpop.com

"Chris_S" wrote in message
...

It's AZOO product number AZ17086. I found another user post somewhere and
they said it got rid of their BBA in 14 days. If true, that is very good
news indeed.

The only fish stores that seem to have it are outside the US. Have not
found it yet in any of the US websites.

There are products available in the US that achieve the same result and
probably cost much less. They are called plant nutrients, i.e. Potassium
Nitrate, Potassium Sulphate, etc. The only side effect is that they make
your plants grow.
__
Alex
pcalex (at) hotpop.com

Go Alex, very sound advice IMO !!!
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**





"Alex R" wrote in message
news:m2z5c.23159$J05.163678@attbi_s01...
"Chris_S" wrote in message
...
Hi:

There was no phosphate in the water at all.

Well, there's your problem. Or at least one of them. There's a very simple
and frequently mentioned principle to getting rid of algae. FOCUS ON THE
PLANTS. Give them abundant nutrients, including NO3, PO4, & K, but most
importantly CO2. Forget about the algae for a while. When the plants are
at
their *optimal* health, the algae will go away automatically. If you still
have algae, then your plants not at their peak health. Don't ask me how
this
works, but it works for sure. It might have something to do with O2
levels,
I don't know. As you probably found out, it's impossible to kill BBA by
trying to starve it. Here are the nutrient levels you need to keep:

CO2: 25-35 ppm (at all times)
NO3: 5-15 ppm
PO4: at least 0.5 ppm
K: ~20 ppm estimated

For traces, you need to watch for iron deficiency and add as much of your
trace supplement as necessary to keep it from occuring. You have to obtain
some KNO3, K2SO4, KH2PO4, and either Seachem Flourish or Tropica
MasterGrow,
if you don't have these already. Check the archive of this newsgroup for
sources of these. You'd probably have to add around 3/4 tsp of each KNO3
and
K2SO4, and a few pinches of KH2PO4 per week, but search the archive for
more
thorough instructions.

Yet the BBA on the plants which
were put in the tank still grew. From what else I read, and from my
experience, any water that will grow plants will grow BBA.

Not true. How is it that so many planted tanks have flourishing plants, no
algae eaters, and no visible BBA? It's not because algae cells simply
don't
exist in those tanks.


So, I have come to the decision that killing it all in the entire tank
system is the only real solution. From what I read either Chlorine or
Copper will do it. Chlorine seems to work much faster. What I plan to
do
is:

Any other suggestions or advice?

Yes, don't even consider it. As far as I'm concerned, your method is
short-sighted and the complete OPPOSITE of what you should be doing. It
does
nothing beneficial for plants. It may kill your fish, and more likely than
not will lead you to more frustration because of this or other algae
issues.
Support for methods like this makes me kind of angry, because they
completely disregard the proper way of controlling algae, by caring for
the
plants. It's been established and is discussed frequently on this
newsgroup
and on the Aquatic Plants Digest by Tom Barr and others. First try feeding
your plants adequately, and *then* use poisonous substances to try to kill
algae if you want. But the only thing that will work for you is keeping
the
nutrient levels high, if you ask me.
__
Alex
pcalex (at) hotpop.com

There was no phosphate in the water at all.

Well, there's your problem.

Gee, for years other people told me that the cause of BBA was too much
phosphate. Now you say having no phosphate causes it. This is typical of
the conflicting information I often here about BBA problems.

Obviously you are of the camp that believes you can control BBA with the
water. I bought into that mentality for years, and fought the BBA using
that method. The BBA won. Maybe for some people, their water, their
plants, and their type of BBA, that method can have some success. But it is
very clear from everything else I have read that more and more 'water
treatment' people are becoming convinced that BBA is a different kind of
problem entirely.

I have seen really nice show aquariums with tons of plant growth and no BBA.
When I ask the aqua person how they did it, they tell me: "I rinse every
plant in Chlorine before I put it in the tank - I don't let BBA in the
tank". That is how they handle it, they prevent it.

Once it gets in it's like cancer. Some may go into remission, some may go
away, some may respond to therapy, but in most cases it will keep growing.

I've had plant growth through the top of the tank. Swords with 24 inch
leaves, and so much plant growth I had to prune plants every week. Yet the
BBA never went away. I've read articles from other people who believed that
water control could combat BBA as well, yet they were left scratching their
heads when they lost the fight and the BBA kept growing.

I do not know if you have any BBA in your tank(s) right now, but if you
would really like to test your theories in practice, I would be happy to
send you some of mine. I can send you a rock or plant with the BBA species
I have. Just let me know.

Regards, Chris.

SNIP

Up your nutrients cut back on the length of light. I had plants with
better
growths than my own beard. Cutting out the light doesn't do the trick....
but increasing my light level to @ 2 watts/gallon, upping the CO2, cutting
back 10 hrs a day of light, and the Tom Barr method of dosing nutrients
......
slowly did the trick. along with manually trimming the worst of it.

A hydrogen peroxide works well if you want to clean up a more delicate
plants.

Now everything is fine, till I forget something .....;-) or go on
vacation.

bob



Is there a website that elaborates on the Tom Barr method of dosing?

Thanks,
Harry




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There was no phosphate in the water at all.
Well, there's your problem.
Gee, for years other people told me that the cause of BBA was too much
phosphate. Now you say having no phosphate causes it. This is
typical of the conflicting information I often here about BBA
problems.

Obviously you are of the camp that believes you can control BBA with
the water. I bought into that mentality for years, and fought the
BBA using that method. The BBA won. Maybe for some people, their
water, their plants, and their type of BBA, that method can have some
success. But it is very clear from everything else I have read that
more and more 'water treatment' people are becoming convinced that
BBA is a different kind of problem entirely.

I have seen really nice show aquariums with tons of plant growth and
no BBA. When I ask the aqua person how they did it, they tell me: "I
rinse every plant in Chlorine before I put it in the tank - I don't
let BBA in the tank". That is how they handle it, they prevent it.

Once it gets in it's like cancer. Some may go into remission, some
may go away, some may respond to therapy, but in most cases it will
keep growing.

I've had plant growth through the top of the tank. Swords with 24
inch leaves, and so much plant growth I had to prune plants every
week. Yet the BBA never went away. I've read articles from other
people who believed that water control could combat BBA as well, yet
they were left scratching their heads when they lost the fight and
the BBA kept growing.

I do not know if you have any BBA in your tank(s) right now, but if
you would really like to test your theories in practice, I would be
happy to send you some of mine. I can send you a rock or plant with
the BBA species I have. Just let me know.

Regards, Chris.

I see that your situation has set your mind already.... it's easy to give
up, easier than fixing the problem and I admit, I have been battling BBA for
4 months and what caused mine, is a three fold effect. 1, ran out of CO2, 2
days... only 2 days and it started. 2, PMDD ran out... 3, water changes
were neglected for an extra 2 weeks....

In a period of 2 weeks, my tank went haywire... 2 swords that were
beautiful, covered, my anubias, trashed, sunset hygro, wadded up with BBA...

The only way I know to fix it, was to clean what algae I could, manually...
Soak whatever equipment in Chlorine bleach, and startup the CO2 and ferts
again... 2 weeks later, it's not growing, but its' a daily manual removal
routine that I get into, and it's getting better every day....

There is hope, but only if youre not in denial, that you MUST do something,
it isn't such an easy fix that it'll just hit you one day... it's a serious
method of nutrients, and CO2... you can deny all you want... Tom Barr knows
his stuff...


--
RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
streetfighter!!!

==========================
2003 TRX450ES
1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
1987 TRX250R (sold)
1987 CBR600 Hurricane (sold)
1987 VFR700 Interceptor (sold)
1995 TRX300ex (sold)
2000 CBR600F4 silver/red (sold) *sniff*sniff*
'98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
==========================
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
"By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer
meets the definition of a telephone fax machine. By Sec.227(b)(1)(C),
it is unlawful to send any unsolicited advertisement to such equipment.
By Sec.227(b)(3)(C), a violation of the aforementioned Section is
punishable by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500,
whichever is greater, for each violation."

If you do send me unsolicited e-mail I will proof-read it at a rate
of $100 per hour (4 hour minimum).

I guess I no longer believe that there are any water conditions under which
BBA will not survive. Sure you can make it grow faster or slower, but the
point is it keeps growing once it is in your tank. That is not true with
Green algae. That you can control and essentially make it disappear. I've
never had any significant problem with Green algae.

BBA is Red algae (Rhodophytes) and is NOT at all related to Green algae
(Chlorophytes). There are over 5000 species of Red algae of which about 200
are freshwater. Most are sal****er. This is seaweed. BBA is really
nothing more than freshwater seaweed, and is of a completely different
nature than Green algae. It is probably unfortunate that the common term
"algae" is use for both because they are totally different.

I hear a lot of people describing water treatment methods that certainly
have a big affect when dealing with Green algae. But I no longer believe
that these methods are relavant or anywhere near as useful for Red algae.
Red algae does not respond in the same way at all - it is tenacious.

Nick Franks wrote a good article about Red Algae in 1996. As he says, Red
Algae is designed to survive on low nutrients. You cannot starve it out of
existence. It can survive a long time without photosynthesis. Your plants
will die long before it does. The whole point of his article was that once
you get it in your tank, you're in for a battle. There's no winning in this
game, just minimizing your defeat. His #1 recommendation was to eliminate
it before it gets in your tank.

Once you have it in your tank, well I guess you could say it's probably like
having Herpes. You just have to learn how to live with it. I am fed up
living with it and I want it out.

Regards, Chris.

I had a bad outbreak of BBA after an overdose of Seachem Flourish. The stuff
was probably already in the tank, but the Flourish overdose made it spread
very fast.

I tried starving it, and I tried the blackout - neither was not enough.

Last weekend, I trimmed a lot of the leaves that were infested in the faster
growing plants. Then I took out the anoubias and java fern and soaked them
in a bleach solution. I got distracted, and the anubias was left in the
solution for over 10 minutes. By the time I noticed, the BBA was freeling
falling off its leaves. Where the plants were soaked for only 4 minutes, I
had to rub it off and it took some doing. I also soaked my mopani wood where
the BBA had started growing, then scrubbed it with a brush. I could not get
it off the "bananas" of the banana plant eventhough it (the algae) was
bleached dead. Whatever I could not scrub off, turned white to reddish when
it was returned to the tank.

I still have it on the dwarf hairgrass even after a very short haircut. But
now, my SAE appear to be keeping it under control. Who knows, I may follow
in Chris's footsteps if I get fed up in the future.

"Nemo" wrote in message
Last weekend, I trimmed a lot of the leaves that were infested in the
faster
growing plants. Then I took out the anoubias and java fern and soaked them
in a bleach solution. I got distracted, and the anubias was left in the
solution for over 10 minutes. By the time I noticed, the BBA was freeling
falling off its leaves. Where the plants were soaked for only 4 minutes, I
had to rub it off and it took some doing. I also soaked my mopani wood
where
the BBA had started growing, then scrubbed it with a brush. I could not
get
it off the "bananas" of the banana plant eventhough it (the algae) was
bleached dead. Whatever I could not scrub off, turned white to reddish
when
it was returned to the tank.

I still have it on the dwarf hairgrass even after a very short haircut.
But
now, my SAE appear to be keeping it under control. Who knows, I may follow
in Chris's footsteps if I get fed up in the future.

I can only offer 2 words of advice...

Manual Removal - if it's not there, it_Can't_ grow... right?

If you have it, you must "Manually Remove" what you can... on substrate,
plants, equipment... entirely submersing them in chlorine will chemically
remove it... getting rid of it, totally is a hard job... slow but steady
manual removal is indeed the slowest but most promising method. A little at
a time, will rid your tank of it...

Ok, with that said, I ask, will it grow back? If you repeat what started
it, yes... If you follow a somewhat strict regimen of CO2, Ferts, and water
changes, it'll probably STOP growing, go dormant and may even subside...
that I cannot prove, but mine is no longer growing....

When all else seems like it'll too fail, you can always try what someone
suggests... it doesn't hurt.. I was the one saying I was going to tear this
tank down to the stand and clean it... instead, I removed it manually, added
CO2, and ferts, and slowly but surely, it's being removed.... daily.

--
RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike streetfighter!!!

==========================
2003 TRX450ES
1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
1987 TRX250R (sold)
1987 CBR600 Hurricane (sold)
1987 VFR700 Interceptor (sold)
1995 TRX300ex (sold)
2000 CBR600F4 silver/red (sold) *sniff*sniff*
'98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
==========================
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
"By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer
meets the definition of a telephone fax machine. By Sec.227(b)(1)(C),
it is unlawful to send any unsolicited advertisement to such equipment.
By Sec.227(b)(3)(C), a violation of the aforementioned Section is
punishable by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500,
whichever is greater, for each violation."

If you do send me unsolicited e-mail I will proof-read it at a rate
of $100 per hour (4 hour minimum).