Holy New Super Pond from Heaven Questions.

Little Scooby wrote:

If it works and looks good under the right conditions in such a tiny pond,
it will definately make me want to upgrade the size of the pond sooner than
later but after digging 100 gallons of hard clay and dirt all last weekend
with a Garden Claw and a shovel by myself when it was 90 degrees outside, I
don't want to touch another shovel for a while (didn't seem right to rent a
small Bobcat or excavator device for what at the time seemed like a puny 100
gallons) and I haven't looked into how much it would cost to hire someone to
dig out another 100 to 200 gallons of earth (if anyone knows the cost,
please tell me), plus, I want to see if I can defy the odds by getting it
not only to fit in the tiny pond I have selected, but to have it look really
nice as well. Plus, this particular pond has the perfect shape for the area
I have selected in the yard (considering there aren't very many good designs
for preformed ponds - in my opinion).

I live in a clay area. Try wetting the ground really well and then
letting it sit and soak in for a while before digging. It's heavier
this way but a lot easier to dig.

Susan
shsimko at duke dot edu

"Susan H. Simko" wrote in message
...
Little Scooby wrote:

If it works and looks good under the right conditions in such a tiny
pond,
it will definately make me want to upgrade the size of the pond sooner
than
later but after digging 100 gallons of hard clay and dirt all last
weekend
with a Garden Claw and a shovel by myself when it was 90 degrees
outside, I
don't want to touch another shovel for a while (didn't seem right to
rent a
small Bobcat or excavator device for what at the time seemed like a puny
100
gallons) and I haven't looked into how much it would cost to hire
someone to
dig out another 100 to 200 gallons of earth (if anyone knows the cost,
please tell me), plus, I want to see if I can defy the odds by getting
it
not only to fit in the tiny pond I have selected, but to have it look
really
nice as well. Plus, this particular pond has the perfect shape for the
area
I have selected in the yard (considering there aren't very many good
designs
for preformed ponds - in my opinion).

I live in a clay area. Try wetting the ground really well and then
letting it sit and soak in for a while before digging. It's heavier
this way but a lot easier to dig.

The ground I live on is a form of clay known in the scientific community as
"Groundis as hardis cementis". I found the best way to dig for me, was to
use a pick axe or hand pick, and just hack a trench as wide as the tool. Let
the tool do the work. Then I would use a shovel to chip off the sides of the
trench, letting it fall into the trench. I'd then scoop out the loose pieces
of concrete...I mean clay. Lather, rinse repeat. Just keep expanding the
trench. Work in layers, getting wider each time.

Damn...ya know...I was going to take pictures of this when I discovered how
well the technique worked, but figured I would get laughed at.

BV.

"Susan H. Simko" wrote:

Why? *grin* I got a pic of the s.o.'s stepdad with the jackhammer. I
really wanted to have a go at using it but was assured that if I wanted
to be able to do anything else for the rest of the week that I ought to
give it a pass. Picking up the 70 pound jackhammer wasn't the issue,
controlling it while it was on was.

From years of watching construction workers, I'd venture a guess that
you don't have a beer belly that overhangs the hammer, which seems to be
a requirement for proper operation.

Holy ****balls. Creating a pond is a lot of work. I thought of another
device I could use though. Besides a wind detector like this one:

http://www.smarthome.com/7196.html

I could also use a water level safety shutoff device. Anyone ever use any
before? It would just have to be able to turn off a normal AC switch when
the water level reaches a low level in the pond. That way, even if the water
does blow out of the pond during high winds, the pumps would be
automatically shut off so they don't get burned out.

-Little Scooby


"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
I say, "Go for it." When you figure it all out, let us know worked, and
pictures please. ~ jan

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:54:25 -0500, "Little Sccoby"
wrote:

I'm thinking it is going to be very very close to very very very very
close
if it works. I always have the option to upgrade the pond size as the
final
tweak but I want to save that option as the last resort option.
snip
I'll just have to wait and see how it turns out I guess. Who knows. In 1
week I could be digging again, but I hope not...

-Little Scooby


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

What about trenching electrical? Anything to it that I need to know? I'm
guessing I should just trench a thicker guage extension cord to the pond
(about 20 to 30 foot cord), that way when I want to upgrade or replace old
pumps, I don't have to dig out the pump/light cord(s), which I was surprised
to find is not detachable from most of the pumps I have looked at.

My goal is to have 2 or 3 pumps plus lights attached to an extension cord
that goes to the outside house electrical jack which has a ground fault
interupter. I feel like I'm missing something though. What should I use to
waterproof the area where the pumps connect to the extension cord? Just wrap
them in plastic and seal with duct tape or something? Seems like there
should be a better way.

-Little Scooby


"Susan H. Simko" wrote in message
...
Little Scooby wrote:

If it works and looks good under the right conditions in such a tiny
pond,
it will definately make me want to upgrade the size of the pond sooner
than
later but after digging 100 gallons of hard clay and dirt all last
weekend
with a Garden Claw and a shovel by myself when it was 90 degrees
outside, I
don't want to touch another shovel for a while (didn't seem right to
rent a
small Bobcat or excavator device for what at the time seemed like a puny
100
gallons) and I haven't looked into how much it would cost to hire
someone to
dig out another 100 to 200 gallons of earth (if anyone knows the cost,
please tell me), plus, I want to see if I can defy the odds by getting
it
not only to fit in the tiny pond I have selected, but to have it look
really
nice as well. Plus, this particular pond has the perfect shape for the
area
I have selected in the yard (considering there aren't very many good
designs
for preformed ponds - in my opinion).

I live in a clay area. Try wetting the ground really well and then
letting it sit and soak in for a while before digging. It's heavier
this way but a lot easier to dig.

Susan
shsimko at duke dot edu

There is a much better way.... call an electrician! I can
see you are a quick fixer ;-) ... not good to hook up your pond
with nothing but extension cords. And Please
don't wrap the cords with plastic. It holds in heat and could
easily cause a fire. If you must use extenesion cords buy
some dielectric grease from an auto parts store. Smear that
all over the ends. It is water proof.

I would like to see you post that you've thought about it ..
and your going to hire an electrician.

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"Hank Pagel" wrote in message
.. .
always do wiring to code and use GFCI.
"Little Sccoby" wrote in message
...
What about trenching electrical? Anything to it that I need to know?
I'm
guessing I should just trench a thicker guage extension cord to the
pond
(about 20 to 30 foot cord), that way when I want to upgrade or
replace old
pumps, I don't have to dig out the pump/light cord(s), which I was
surprised
to find is not detachable from most of the pumps I have looked at.

My goal is to have 2 or 3 pumps plus lights attached to an extension
cord
that goes to the outside house electrical jack which has a ground
fault
interupter. I feel like I'm missing something though. What should I
use to
waterproof the area where the pumps connect to the extension cord?
Just wrap
them in plastic and seal with duct tape or something? Seems like
there
should be a better way.

-Little Scooby


"Susan H. Simko" wrote in message
...
Little Scooby wrote:

If it works and looks good under the right conditions in such a
tiny
pond,
it will definately make me want to upgrade the size of the pond
sooner
than
later but after digging 100 gallons of hard clay and dirt all
last
weekend
with a Garden Claw and a shovel by myself when it was 90 degrees
outside, I
don't want to touch another shovel for a while (didn't seem
right to
rent a
small Bobcat or excavator device for what at the time seemed
like a puny
100
gallons) and I haven't looked into how much it would cost to
hire
someone to
dig out another 100 to 200 gallons of earth (if anyone knows the
cost,
please tell me), plus, I want to see if I can defy the odds by
getting
it
not only to fit in the tiny pond I have selected, but to have it
look
really
nice as well. Plus, this particular pond has the perfect shape
for the
area
I have selected in the yard (considering there aren't very many
good
designs
for preformed ponds - in my opinion).

I live in a clay area. Try wetting the ground really well and
then
letting it sit and soak in for a while before digging. It's
heavier
this way but a lot easier to dig.

Susan
shsimko at duke dot edu

I think I would call in an electrician who does this sort of
outdoor application to at least get an estimate.
They will let you know what you can
and perhaps should not do. I have no idea on fees.... they
are pretty much dictated by the union ... (I think??)

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"Little Sccoby" wrote in message
...
Actually, after reading a bunch of articles about installing ground fault
interupters, I'm more confused than before so it looks like I will have to
consult an electrician. I kinda thought there might be more to it than
just
trenching a thick extension cord (or other high grade electrical cord) to
a
GFCI recepticle so I am glad I asked. I never thought about the heat
generated from plastic wrapped around the cords (especially since they
would
be buried underground). Good point.

What type of fee could I expect to be charged? Also, do the electricians
trench the electrical wire to the pond or is that something they would let
us do (or a landscaper if needed)?

Thanks again for all the help. I hope everything turns out.

-Little Scooby


"Nedra" wrote in message
link.net...
There is a much better way.... call an electrician! I can
see you are a quick fixer ;-) ... not good to hook up your pond
with nothing but extension cords. And Please
don't wrap the cords with plastic. It holds in heat and could
easily cause a fire. If you must use extenesion cords buy
some dielectric grease from an auto parts store. Smear that
all over the ends. It is water proof.

I would like to see you post that you've thought about it ..
and your going to hire an electrician.

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"Hank Pagel" wrote in message
.. .
always do wiring to code and use GFCI.
"Little Sccoby" wrote in message
...
What about trenching electrical? Anything to it that I need to know?
I'm
guessing I should just trench a thicker guage extension cord to the
pond
(about 20 to 30 foot cord), that way when I want to upgrade or
replace old
pumps, I don't have to dig out the pump/light cord(s), which I was
surprised
to find is not detachable from most of the pumps I have looked at.

My goal is to have 2 or 3 pumps plus lights attached to an extension
cord
that goes to the outside house electrical jack which has a ground
fault
interupter. I feel like I'm missing something though. What should I
use to
waterproof the area where the pumps connect to the extension cord?
Just wrap
them in plastic and seal with duct tape or something? Seems like
there
should be a better way.

-Little Scooby


"Susan H. Simko" wrote in message
...
Little Scooby wrote:

If it works and looks good under the right conditions in such a
tiny
pond,
it will definately make me want to upgrade the size of the pond
sooner
than
later but after digging 100 gallons of hard clay and dirt all
last
weekend
with a Garden Claw and a shovel by myself when it was 90 degrees
outside, I
don't want to touch another shovel for a while (didn't seem
right to
rent a
small Bobcat or excavator device for what at the time seemed
like a puny
100
gallons) and I haven't looked into how much it would cost to
hire
someone to
dig out another 100 to 200 gallons of earth (if anyone knows the
cost,
please tell me), plus, I want to see if I can defy the odds by
getting
it
not only to fit in the tiny pond I have selected, but to have it
look
really
nice as well. Plus, this particular pond has the perfect shape
for the
area
I have selected in the yard (considering there aren't very many
good
designs
for preformed ponds - in my opinion).

I live in a clay area. Try wetting the ground really well and
then
letting it sit and soak in for a while before digging. It's
heavier
this way but a lot easier to dig.

Susan
shsimko at duke dot edu

$400 just for the electrical help? That seems rather high. I only have to
trench about 20 to 30 feet. I watched a neighbor trench his cable line in
about an hour and it didn't seem that involved. Did you have a lot of other
electrical done at the same time or something?

"K30a" wrote in message
...
L.Scooby wrote What type of fee could I expect to be charged ?
(running
electricity out to the pond).

We dug the trench ourselves with the help of a college linebacker...
Everything came out to be about $400,
that's here in the Pacific NorthWest.




k30a

Speaking of shut-off devices based on water levels, do the pumps that have
shutoff capabilities work very well? Or is it always better to use a
separate shut-off device and not rely on the pumps with built in shut-off
capabilities (especially when running multiple pumps in an array)? I guess
what I mean is this: By the time the low water level activates the shut-off
mechanism on the pump, is the pump already slightly (even very slightly)
damaged in any way or is it just a normal proven method for shutting off a
pump that has no side-effects whatsoever (or shorten lifespan of pump in any
way)? (I keep hearing horror stories of people who let their pumps run dry).

The reason I ask is because my pond will be teensy with wind blowing the
fountains spray out of the pond on a constant basis (unless or even if I use
a wind detection shut-off device with this setup) and the water level could
reach shut-off levels on a daily or at least weekly basis (grass should be
okay because it's all down hill or in a rocky area with good drainage).

Is it kinda like with a PC? You could use an average powerstrip for your PC,
or you could do the right thing and use a UPS that not only protects against
electrical spikes but also has a battery backup to prevent your PC from
shutting down hard in case the electricity goes out.

I'm all for redundancy, but to a point. I would not run any PC without a UPS
so I'm guessing I shouldn't just rely on the built in shutoff mechanisms
built into certain pumps, but, as I'm slowly finding out, ponds and all the
electrical devices that go with them (pumps, underwater lights, wind/water
level shutoff devices, etc), are very far from the PC realm.

Hopefully this week I should have some pictures of this crazy super pond
project from heaven (I can hardly wait to hear the laughter of my attempts
to get 3 pumps with fountain jets in this small 4x5 foot pond), but I must
complete the project, even though it is going much slower than I had
originally anticipated and has cost me a few extra dollars than I had
accounted for. Hopefully it will be worth it in the long run.

Once again, thanks for all the help. It has been not only fun but amusing as
well.

-Little Scooby


"Little Sccoby" wrote in message
...

Holy ****balls. Creating a pond is a lot of work. I thought of another
device I could use though. Besides a wind detector like this one:

http://www.smarthome.com/7196.html

I could also use a water level safety shutoff device. Anyone ever use any
before? It would just have to be able to turn off a normal AC switch when
the water level reaches a low level in the pond. That way, even if the
water
does blow out of the pond during high winds, the pumps would be
automatically shut off so they don't get burned out.

-Little Scooby


"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
I say, "Go for it." When you figure it all out, let us know worked, and
pictures please. ~ jan

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:54:25 -0500, "Little Sccoby"
wrote:

I'm thinking it is going to be very very close to very very very very
close
if it works. I always have the option to upgrade the pond size as the
final
tweak but I want to save that option as the last resort option.
snip
I'll just have to wait and see how it turns out I guess. Who knows. In
1
week I could be digging again, but I hope not...

-Little Scooby


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

hmm I wouldn't know.

I'm sure It adds to their ????? you pay them.

but I don't think he wants to do digging!!! if 'I were an electrician I'd
only want to do the hookups.



"Little Sccoby" wrote in message
...
I will probably call them before the weekend. Just kind of feeling the
waters out so I'm not too floored and know what to expect when I talk to
them.

Do they normally like to run all the underground wire themselves?

-Little Scooby