Average life of Yellow Tang.

The EMF from various appliances generate eddy
currents in the fish themselves, causing distress. The lateral line
is a extremely sensitve organ and anything that distrubs it can stress
the fish and cause secondary problems. The EMF would generate a certain
potential in the fish due to its specific internal electrolite mix and
generate a different potential in the water. The difference between
the water potential and the internal potential is what causes the problem.
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"Rich R" wrote in message
...
You have to be kidding me, guys I know you are smart guys but listen to
your self's grounding rods are Dangerous!!
I'm not going to spark a fight with you, But your wrong.
If you ever break a glass heater and touch the water you may change your
mind,,,If you have one after doing so

The fish collecting industry uses voltage to collect fish,
The following paragraph is from a reference, "Fisheries Techniques"
The fish will have a very very low resistance, a lot lower than
the
water.

from page 150 of "Fisheries Techniques"...
"Because a fish has resistance, a given current density at one end
will result in a lowered density at the other, producing a voltage
gradient in the fish. Voltage gradients of 0.1 to 1.0 volts/cm are
most effective for stunning fish; these gradients can be maintained in
freshwaters of normal conductivity (100-500 micromhos/cm) by adjusting
circuit voltage to produce a current of 3-6 amperes. At high
conductivities, water becomes less resistive than fish and the current
tends to flow around them, resulting in little or no voltage effect;
this is the reason that electrofishing is not used in brackish or salt
water. At low conductivities (less than 100 micromhos/cm), the water
is more resistant than fish, but the electrical field is limited to
the immediate area of trhe electrode. When this occurs,a fish may not
be affected until it touches the electrode--then it suddenly receives
a high voltage gradient and dies".

It goes on to say distilled water has a conductivity of 0.5-4.0
micromhos/cm, most freshwater bodies are between 50-1,500 micromhos/cm
and sal****er is 500 times more conductive than freshwater.

From this discussion, it appears some aquaria have water more
conductive than the fish, while others are not, depending on the
mineral content.

Most of the Known facts point to the chemical makeup of the fish makes
them a potential
Its up for debate Not a fight about it!!!!

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"unclenorm" wrote in message
oups.com...
Tut tut George P.,
I t might also eliminate you, listen to
George he is very right, fitting grounding rods to aquariums is a very
dangerous practice, if you don't value your own health think of all
your tank inhabitants, without a ground rod they are quite safe with
one they are potentialy dead. A stray currant detector is a far far
better proposition.
regards,
unclenorm.

"Rich R" wrote in message ...
You have to be kidding me, guys I know you are smart guys but listen to your
self's grounding rods are Dangerous!!
I'm not going to spark a fight with you, But your wrong.
If you ever break a glass heater and touch the water you may change your
mind,,,If you have one after doing so

Every glass heater that I own is not grounded, so I don't see the point of your
argument.

The fish collecting industry uses voltage to collect fish,
The following paragraph is from a reference, "Fisheries Techniques"
The fish will have a very very low resistance, a lot lower than the
water.

from page 150 of "Fisheries Techniques"...
"Because a fish has resistance, a given current density at one end
will result in a lowered density at the other, producing a voltage
gradient in the fish. Voltage gradients of 0.1 to 1.0 volts/cm are
most effective for stunning fish; these gradients can be maintained in
freshwaters of normal conductivity (100-500 micromhos/cm) by adjusting
circuit voltage to produce a current of 3-6 amperes.

This is the clue: "circuit". If the circuit is closed (i.e., grounded), you
are going to register a voltage because there will be a completed circuit and an
electrical current. If, on the other hand, the circuit is open (i.e., not
grounded), you are not going to register any voltage at all. If fish are
swimming in water that is not grounded, there is no current or voltage that can
be registered, and they aren't going to feel anything because there is no
current running through the water (you cannot charge a car battery, for
instance, or use one unless both the positive electrode and negative electrode
are connected and the circuit completed). If, on the other hand, a submerged
pump is leaking past its seal, and you then ground the water in the tank, you
are certainly going to have a "closed" circuit, and voltage will travel through
the water to the ground, charge the aquarium and anything in it including the
fish. This is why birds can perch unaffected on power lines - they aren't
grounded. If however, a bird was to flap its wings while standing on one wire,
and was large enough to touch the other wire with its flapping wings, you're
going to be having fried bird for dinner. The moral of this story is: Use
ground fault interupts on all of your aquarium appliances to avoid electrifying
the tank, and so that you will know immediately if there is an appliance that is
malfunctioning.

~George~

"Rich R" wrote in message ...
The EMF from various appliances generate eddy
currents in the fish themselves, causing distress. The lateral line
is a extremely sensitve organ and anything that distrubs it can stress
the fish and cause secondary problems. The EMF would generate a certain
potential in the fish due to its specific internal electrolite mix and
generate a different potential in the water. The difference between
the water potential and the internal potential is what causes the problem.
--

Electric fields are created by differences in voltage: the higher the voltage,
the stronger will be the resultant field. Magnetic fields are created when
electric current flows: the greater the current, the stronger the magnetic
field. An electric field will exist even when there is no current flowing. If
current does flow, the strength of the magnetic field will vary with power
consumption but the electric field strength will be constant. The key is not in
grounding the tank, but attaching all the appliances to a ground fault interupt,
and in eliminating the offending aplliance.

I understand how VOLTAGE is produced, I'm talking about Electrical devices
generate electro-magnetic fields (EMF)

http://www.reefs.org/library/article/s_brown.html
hay its a healthily discussion and I do respect you I just take another side
on this matter

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"George" wrote in message
news:P9bce.31527$NU4.30726@attbi_s22...

"Rich R" wrote in message
...
You have to be kidding me, guys I know you are smart guys but listen to
your self's grounding rods are Dangerous!!
I'm not going to spark a fight with you, But your wrong.
If you ever break a glass heater and touch the water you may change your
mind,,,If you have one after doing so

Every glass heater that I own is not grounded, so I don't see the point of
your argument.

The fish collecting industry uses voltage to collect fish,
The following paragraph is from a reference, "Fisheries Techniques"
The fish will have a very very low resistance, a lot lower than
the
water.

from page 150 of "Fisheries Techniques"...
"Because a fish has resistance, a given current density at one end
will result in a lowered density at the other, producing a voltage
gradient in the fish. Voltage gradients of 0.1 to 1.0 volts/cm are
most effective for stunning fish; these gradients can be maintained
in
freshwaters of normal conductivity (100-500 micromhos/cm) by
adjusting
circuit voltage to produce a current of 3-6 amperes.

This is the clue: "circuit". If the circuit is closed (i.e., grounded),
you are going to register a voltage because there will be a completed
circuit and an electrical current. If, on the other hand, the circuit is
open (i.e., not grounded), you are not going to register any voltage at
all. If fish are swimming in water that is not grounded, there is no
current or voltage that can be registered, and they aren't going to feel
anything because there is no current running through the water (you cannot
charge a car battery, for instance, or use one unless both the positive
electrode and negative electrode are connected and the circuit completed).
If, on the other hand, a submerged pump is leaking past its seal, and you
then ground the water in the tank, you are certainly going to have a
"closed" circuit, and voltage will travel through the water to the ground,
charge the aquarium and anything in it including the fish. This is why
birds can perch unaffected on power lines - they aren't grounded. If
however, a bird was to flap its wings while standing on one wire, and was
large enough to touch the other wire with its flapping wings, you're going
to be having fried bird for dinner. The moral of this story is: Use
ground fault interupts on all of your aquarium appliances to avoid
electrifying the tank, and so that you will know immediately if there is
an appliance that is malfunctioning.

~George~

"Rich R" wrote in message
...
I understand how VOLTAGE is produced, I'm talking about Electrical devices
generate electro-magnetic fields (EMF)

http://www.reefs.org/library/article/s_brown.html
hay its a healthily discussion and I do respect you I just take another side
on this matter

--
www.nydiver.com
ONLINE meeting rooms

Yes, electrical devices do generate electromagnetic fields. Pumps do it, so do
heaters. So what? None of my fish have ever shown any indication that it has
any adverse effect on them (2 maroon clown fish - one is 14 years old in the
same aquarium with the same pumps, and a yellow tang). Electrifying a tank by
grounding it when it has a leaky pump does have an adeverse effect on anything
in the tank, as it will you if you stick you hand in it when barefooted. Which
is why the golden rule is to use ground fault interupts on all of your aquatic
appliances.



"George" wrote in message
news:P9bce.31527$NU4.30726@attbi_s22...

"Rich R" wrote in message
...
You have to be kidding me, guys I know you are smart guys but listen to your
self's grounding rods are Dangerous!!
I'm not going to spark a fight with you, But your wrong.
If you ever break a glass heater and touch the water you may change your
mind,,,If you have one after doing so

Every glass heater that I own is not grounded, so I don't see the point of
your argument.

The fish collecting industry uses voltage to collect fish,
The following paragraph is from a reference, "Fisheries Techniques"
The fish will have a very very low resistance, a lot lower than
the
water.

from page 150 of "Fisheries Techniques"...
"Because a fish has resistance, a given current density at one end
will result in a lowered density at the other, producing a voltage
gradient in the fish. Voltage gradients of 0.1 to 1.0 volts/cm are
most effective for stunning fish; these gradients can be maintained in
freshwaters of normal conductivity (100-500 micromhos/cm) by adjusting
circuit voltage to produce a current of 3-6 amperes.

This is the clue: "circuit". If the circuit is closed (i.e., grounded), you
are going to register a voltage because there will be a completed circuit and
an electrical current. If, on the other hand, the circuit is open (i.e., not
grounded), you are not going to register any voltage at all. If fish are
swimming in water that is not grounded, there is no current or voltage that
can be registered, and they aren't going to feel anything because there is no
current running through the water (you cannot charge a car battery, for
instance, or use one unless both the positive electrode and negative
electrode are connected and the circuit completed). If, on the other hand, a
submerged pump is leaking past its seal, and you then ground the water in the
tank, you are certainly going to have a "closed" circuit, and voltage will
travel through the water to the ground, charge the aquarium and anything in
it including the fish. This is why birds can perch unaffected on power
lines - they aren't grounded. If however, a bird was to flap its wings while
standing on one wire, and was large enough to touch the other wire with its
flapping wings, you're going to be having fried bird for dinner. The moral
of this story is: Use ground fault interupts on all of your aquarium
appliances to avoid electrifying the tank, and so that you will know
immediately if there is an appliance that is malfunctioning.

~George~

you just don t get it and its going around and around, its like noise in
electronics. And yes it does seem to affect my tangs. I wont respond
anymore this is boring we both think we are right and I don t want to
get heated,,,sorry it went on so long
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sorry I forgot ,do you ground your pool. God I hope so......
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"rich" wrote in message ...
you just don t get it and its going around and around, its like noise in
electronics. And yes it does seem to affect my tangs. I wont respond anymore
this is boring we both think we are right and I don t want to get
heated,,,sorry it went on so long
--


www.reeftanksonline.com
www.nydiver.com

Rich, there is no reason to get upset about this. I'm not the enemy here. I'm
just trying to help. Just a couple of more question though. Humour me. How do
you know for certain that it is an electrical problem that is affecting your
tang? Have you isolated the animal from the tank to see if his behavior
changes? Have you checked the tank to see if there is any voltage being applied
to it from pumps, heaters, etc? Do you know for certain that it isn't sick?

"rich" wrote in message
...
sorry I forgot ,do you ground your pool. God I hope so......
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I don't have a pool. I do have a large garden pond fuul of lots of fish, and it
is on a ground fault interupt. If I had a pool, it would also be on a ground
fault interupt.

BUT NO GROUND?
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